7.1.5: Fire completely wrecked

[Nico3337]

Unholy hasnt been viable since early in this expansion. Either live with it, change spec or re-roll, like many dks have had to.

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I dont want fire destroyed - ill probably switch mains to it in 7.1.5 from my unholy dk.

How about you just suck it up and get used to it or re-roll?

sure, just suck it up.. like it's reasonable to nerf it even more in these new patch notes...

[deadman1]

Unholy hasnt been viable since early in this expansion. Either live with it, change spec or re-roll, like many dks have had to.

Invalid response, blizzard said that they planned to make fire equal to what it is now.

They haven't done anything near that.

[CptEgo]

Tell me, how are they going to make up for this? Buffing pyros damage to 700% sp? Making mastery twice as strong? Not even sure if either of those would make it competitive again.

Check out the Warlock forums, half of them are talking about quitting the game and complaing about Mages being way too strong. I personally think Fire's crit% is way too high, and tuning it down is a good idea. You shouldn't be doing more crits than normal hits. But I enjoy playing my Fire mage alt, and ofcourse I too hope they don't 'wreck' the spec. Which they wont.

[Deleted]

Invalid response, blizzard said that they planned to make fire equal to what it is now.

They haven't done anything near that.

Bliz say shit all day long...

Dks are slow but when on target hit hardest

We wont buff one spec so much that people are forced to switch spec

Ap catchup mechanic exists

...to mention just a few recent ones...

[Sekurm]

why are mages even crying?. dont worry u will be the top 3 spec at the end of the expansion like always ^^

[Deleted]

For me its is sample choince if fire gets nerfed in single target dmg as bottom spec in sims i m just ending and not subscriber any more. I have 37 traits in fire and 3 legendaries for that spec and they want me to easy change spec that is not preferoming (look tov) single target already.

[Difuid]

I am fine with the devs reducing the burst so fire is not a slave of CD stacking IF they raise the sustained damage accordingly. Or give people the choice what they want to focus on with talent (for ex.: burst CD vs maintenance debuff) and gear choices.

[DagrDK]

I thought the DK forums were full of sky-is-falling stuff.

I don't want your spec to be gutted, nor do I think it's fair for someone to commit an extended period of time to AP farming Fire only to render it worthless and be forced to switch. That's exactly what Blizz said they wouldn't do, and they have.

That said, there are worse specs out there that are given far less attention every single build compared to Mage. Just being realistic here. They basically did an end-of-expansion redesign smack in the beginning.

[deadman1]

I thought the DK forums were full of sky-is-falling stuff.

I don't want your spec to be gutted, nor do I think it's fair for someone to commit an extended period of time to AP farming Fire only to render it worthless and be forced to switch. That's exactly what Blizz said they wouldn't do, and they have.

That said, there are worse specs out there that are given far less attention every single build compared to Mage. Just being realistic here. They basically did an end-of-expansion redesign smack in the beginning.

Don't worry there has been multiple dks and ele shams co-opting this thread nevermind their own forums.

[DagrDK]

Don't worry there has been multiple dks and ele shams co-opting this thread nevermind their own forums.

I wasn't trying to hijack or paint anyone in poor light, just that we're all going through similar garbage is all. I've played a long time and the oddity of this xpac has got me fooled just as much as the next guy.

[ssviolett]

why are mages even crying?. dont worry u will be the top 3 spec at the end of the expansion like always ^^

But we dont want to be super top-omgwtfop by the end of expansion, we just want to be competitive

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For me its is sample choince if fire gets nerfed in single target dmg as bottom spec in sims i m just ending and not subscriber any more. I have 37 traits in fire and 3 legendaries for that spec and they want me to easy change spec that is not preferoming (look tov) single target already.

Yeah, same for me. This is not a complain, not a threat, I simply have neither time nor desire to farm those AP, and especially legs for a new spec. Blizzard obviuosly failed with offspec system.

[deadman1]

I wasn't trying to hijack or paint anyone in poor light, just that we're all going through similar garbage is all. I've played a long time and the oddity of this xpac has got me fooled just as much as the next guy.

I wasn't talking about you. No offense meant.

I meant the last few pages.

[Fayolynn]

Check out the Warlock forums, half of them are talking about quitting the game and complaing about Mages being way too strong. I personally think Fire's crit% is way too high, and tuning it down is a good idea. You shouldn't be doing more crits than normal hits. But I enjoy playing my Fire mage alt, and ofcourse I too hope they don't 'wreck' the spec. Which they wont.

You can have your personal opinion about fires crit being to high, that is fine. The problem is none of these changes are changing our reliance on crit. We still need to stack as much crit as possible to have smooth gameplay. All that is changing is how effective that crit is at boosting our damage.

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Blizzard has said on several occasions that Fire's damage will be pretty much exactly the same when 7.1.5 goes live as it is now.

What Blizzard says and does are two entirely different things. They say they want to keep fire where it is now on live but their actions are painting a different story.

Pre ptr we were told by Blizzard that no major changes to classes were going to be made due to AP investment and legendaries making it feel like a punishment to be forced into switching specs.

PTR build one came out with massive nerds to fire and after a huge up roar Blizzard said not to worry this was just mechanic changes and numbers fine tuning would be happening in the next build.

PTR build 2 came out with some buffs and two more substantial nerfs that offset the buffs given. It's rediculous to expect people with huge amounts of time dedicated to not be pissed off and worried.

[Fojos]

Blizzard has said on several occasions that Fire's damage will be pretty much exactly the same when 7.1.5 goes live as it is now. But I understand that the problem people are having is about how Fire is performing right now, live. Not sure that will change, but I'm very confident they wont tune down further.

Blizzard has said similar things about other specs other times, and many of the times they didn't "fix" it, the spec was left a huge mess.

[Saverem]

Look at all the FOTMs flocking away from the class. Pretty hilarious to watch.

Enjoy rerolling melee and then getting sat out in raids because they still want ranged over you.

[Deleted]

For me its is sample choince if fire gets nerfed in single target dmg as bottom spec in sims i m just ending and not subscriber any more. I have 37 traits in fire and 3 legendaries for that spec and they want me to easy change spec that is not preferoming (look tov) single target already.

might as well swap to unholy now then. save you the wait to get to the bottom.

[ssviolett]

- Blizzard promised that Fire Mage will still be the top dog mage spec (because time and effort invested into artifact)
- Blizzard promised to offset the nerfs with buffs to our base abilities (they KIND OF did in this PTR round. One can HOPE for them to realise that this wasn't nearly enough...)

Very well written post.
Hovewer, unfortunately Blizzard are well known for failing to fulfill their promises. Also, taking into account all those changes it is possible that those "buffs" was the promised "offset", because according to "clever" warlocks or DHs, I dunno, as we can see in this thread: MAGES R FINE !11

[gallamann]

Look at all the FOTMs flocking away from the class. Pretty hilarious to watch.

Enjoy rerolling melee and then getting sat out in raids because they still want ranged over you.

Many of us are mages first and foremost. With Legion Beta, Blizzard left Arcane and Frost in the toilet. Aka our only raid worthy spec was Fire at launch, so we chose to play Fire instead of picking another class. Personally had played Frost since pre-SOO, and would have preferd to stay Frost but the DPS wasn't there to justify a raid spot.

Now we are faced with Artifacts that are 30+ deep, 3 Relics that are 870+ and one or more Fire Legendaries. We can't just go another spec/class overnight, nor will our raids take us along as a sub-par alt. Heck even my casual raid team is limiting people to first 4 of H EN that are swapping (we are only a heroic raid guild). It's simply not fair to the other 15-20 people to have to continuously carry alt's because Blizzard can't balance their game.

The nerfs they are throwing at Fire are massive, to see them crush PI (60% nerf to PI) was just shocking. Hell they already had crushed our crit and without chaining crits PI drops pretty damn quick.

If Blizzards is going to destroy the DPS and game play of any spec, then players of that spec should be able to shift their AP, Relics and Legendary's to a new class/spec without cost, one time.

Me, I am not changing, simply have zero desire to put all that effort in to get back to same place I am already at. Told my raid lead last night to expect my DPS to be shit from 7.1.5 until a month or so after 7.2 releases, will gladly sit if holding them back on progression.

[Saverem]

Many of us are mages first and foremost. With Legion Beta, Blizzard left Arcane and Frost in the toilet. Aka our only raid worthy spec was Fire at launch, so we chose to play Fire instead of picking another class. Personally had played Frost since pre-SOO, and would have preferd to stay Frost but the DPS wasn't there to justify a raid spot.

Now we are faced with Artifacts that are 30+ deep, 3 Relics that are 870+ and one or more Fire Legendaries. We can't just go another spec/class overnight, nor will our raids take us along as a sub-par alt. Heck even my casual raid team is limiting people to first 4 of H EN that are swapping (we are only a heroic raid guild). It's simply not fair to the other 15-20 people to have to continuously carry alt's because Blizzard can't balance their game.

The nerfs they are throwing at Fire are massive, to see them crush PI (60% nerf to PI) was just shocking. Hell they already had crushed our crit and without chaining crits PI drops pretty damn quick.

If Blizzards is going to destroy the DPS and game play of any spec, then players of that spec should be able to shift their AP, Relics and Legendary's to a new class/spec without cost, one time.

Me, I am not changing, simply have zero desire to put all that effort in to get back to same place I am already at. Told my raid lead last night to expect my DPS to be shit from 7.1.5 until a month or so after 7.2 releases, will gladly sit if holding them back on progression.

Then what you should be QQing about is the Artifact Weap system itself, not the class.

If you think having to now level up your Arcane or Frost weaps is bad, then you should come be me for a day. I main a Monk that literally tanks heals and DPSes in raids and I have to spend points on all 3 specs. I have chosen to play a gimped 3 specs rather than focus on just one and I'm fine with it. I wish the system was more alt friendly but this is what we have.

Shit players spend their time crying about it, good players find ways to adapt and overcome.

[simple82189]

Many of us are mages first and foremost. With Legion Beta, Blizzard left Arcane and Frost in the toilet. Aka our only raid worthy spec was Fire at launch, so we chose to play Fire instead of picking another class. Personally had played Frost since pre-SOO, and would have preferd to stay Frost but the DPS wasn't there to justify a raid spot.

Now we are faced with Artifacts that are 30+ deep, 3 Relics that are 870+ and one or more Fire Legendaries. We can't just go another spec/class overnight, nor will our raids take us along as a sub-par alt. Heck even my casual raid team is limiting people to first 4 of H EN that are swapping (we are only a heroic raid guild). It's simply not fair to the other 15-20 people to have to continuously carry alt's because Blizzard can't balance their game.

The nerfs they are throwing at Fire are massive, to see them crush PI (60% nerf to PI) was just shocking. Hell they already had crushed our crit and without chaining crits PI drops pretty damn quick.

If Blizzards is going to destroy the DPS and game play of any spec, then players of that spec should be able to shift their AP, Relics and Legendary's to a new class/spec without cost, one time.

Me, I am not changing, simply have zero desire to put all that effort in to get back to same place I am already at. Told my raid lead last night to expect my DPS to be shit from 7.1.5 until a month or so after 7.2 releases, will gladly sit if holding them back on progression.

These are the same types of arguments many mages present, but it's really just too dramatic.

1) Artifacts that are 30+ deep literally will not matter in a few weeks when your AK rises. You'll be able to farm 30+ in days.
2) Relics: This doesn't matter that much either. If you are raiding and running mythic+ you should inevitably have off-spec relics boosting your frost or arcane weapon to 880+. Yes obviously this is not as ideal, but there are many classes that have to swap specs and gear for different fights. If you are DE'ing relics instead of putting them into your offspecs then you're a goof.
3) Not getting into raids: I don't know if people are seriously experiencing this. If you are just in heroic raid guild it matters very little. Not that you can fill the entire raid with crap dps or anything, but there's a huge amount of leeway with specs. If you are Method and trying to get world firsts that's different, but guilds like that are the 1%. I've been in many, many guilds over the course of my wow career, and there's always people doing 20-30% less dps than me, and my guild is 4/7M EN so less casual than yours but not cutting edge by any means. The margins for dps and how they affect raid slots are not nearly as dramatic as people make them seem. Following mechanics, showing up on time, using consumables, and being flexible and patient are also very important, and none of them are related to your DPS. The few fights like ursoc that are straight up DPS checks are very few.
4) Legendaries: This is a problem, but you'll get more as time goes by. Heck you'll probably get one before 7.1.5 or between that and 7.2. And to be honest most of the legendaries mages get are crap. For example, only like 2 of the 8 or 10 (cant remember how many exactly) legendaries fire mages get are useful (ring and bracers), and there's no reliable way to get those two specific legendaries.
5) Blizzard doing stupid stuff on the PTR to fire mages: This is a valid concern. Blizzard sucks at keeping promises.