Ohio passes 'heartbeat' abortion bill

[Jtbrig7390]

Can't you basically get all the way to the six week limit while reasonably unaware that you're even pregnant if you aren't expecting it?

Yep and a friend of mine just learned they are 9 weeks along.

The government shouldn't tell people (in this case woman) what they can do with there body.

[Annoying]

Ugh, poor moderation attitude. We cannot give birth unto kidneys, we are given but two at birth & hopefully they last throughout. Poor, terrible analogy in absolutely appalling taste.

Comparing babies to broccoli? Murdering them is not enough, now you must eat them? Another terrible analogy.

Emotion is fallacy to robots.

Emotion partially drives the rule of law. Should we end the life of an elderly person just to save resources? What if this elderly life struggling was of your own family? I suppose to robots whom have no emotions, it would not matter.

This, this is whom we fight against.

Bodily autonomy applies to everything in your body. Kidneys included. The government forcing you to give up a kidney is as much of a violation of bodily autonomy as is forcing a woman to keep something inside of her she doesn't want. Hilariously enough, giving birth to a child is, in fact, giving birth to kidneys.

Also, as a moderator, I'm still allowed to have opinions and discuss things.

But in a current society there are plenty of issues on which the State takes away your right to control what happens within your person.
It is illegal to inject, inhale, induce certain chemicals. And if you do - you may serve jail time, be forced into a health institution etc.
If you attempt a suicide and don't succeed - you will be put into a mental hospital against your will, and will be treated against your will without asking for your opinion.
Most likely even if you just decide to mutilate yourself - questions about your mental health will be risen, and you might be locked up in a mental institution.
Also when you, yourself, are beyond viability the doctors will still use different tools, that they have at their disposal to make you viable again. They will put you on life support, without which you won't be viable at all. They will take the organs from one human being, and put those inside you, to replace the ones that failed, to make you viable again.
What is more if the said doctor says "nah, this guy is beyond the point of viability without external support, i'd rather spend my time treating people that have a longer life span ahead of them" and refuses you treatment - he will probably also be charged with a crime.

So the point of fetal viability is as artificial as the point of conception or the point of heartbeat, or the point of registering brainwaves, etc.

Those chemicals you're not allowed? Victim-less crime, which isn't actually a crime as far as I'm concerned. You assume I support the laws that you speak of.

As for the "viable" parts, there's a few definitions. You're not using the same one I am. "Viable" in the field of birth means: "able to live after birth". Simple. You aren't required to provide rent in your body for anyone else. If they are viable (in the birth sense), then they are capable of surviving without violating your bodily autonomy. So let them. If they aren't viable, you aren't required to have them in your body if you don't want them in your body.

I can only italicize the "BODILY AUTONOMY HUMAN RIGHT" point so many times.

[Jtbrig7390]

Not my problem, I'd rather not have my tax money spent on destroying life.

Unless rape or incest.

Rather just have it help raise the child then? You do realize that costs more right? I am sure your 0.00001% of the US tax's are really helping some random woman get a abortion.

[Public Enemy Truth]

You cannot murder a fetus in any sense of the word.

Now even the law begins to disagree, it shall continue as we make strides towards completely dismembering the idea of ending a beating heart. Because it has no face? Disgusting. Because it cannot feel "pain" or rather because you cannot see its pain, it is not pain to you.

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/05/23/e...ng-at-8-weeks/

I do wonder how early truly they can feel. So they may feel the death of robotic, emotionless murderers. A system for pigs, cattle. Lined up to be chopped up, washed out & thrown out into a garbage bag, into the toilet.

It is infinitely simple. If a condom nor birth control pills were utilized, then they must take responsibility for their actions. Why is responsibility such a crime in our years?

@Nixx: I feel this is worthless. I still have yet for you to respond to the elderly statement, rather than trying to middle around with "I hate his opinion, therefore it has no logic!" Hand-selecting bits of a reply & only responding to that individual reply doesn't render the entire reply suddenly obsolete.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Now even the law begins to disagree, it shall continue as we make strides towards completely dismembering the idea of ending a beating heart. Because it has no face? Disgusting. Because it cannot feel "pain" or rather because you cannot see its pain, it is not pain to you.

So you don't even know when/if a fetus can think or feel, but you keep pretending that a heartbeat makes it a person? Sorry, not a valid argument.

[Draco-Onis]

Its also pretty silly to think that anti abortion legislation wouldn't be one of their major priorities when the VP is a Christian fundamentalist. They're just doing it state by state because outright repealing Roe vs. Wade is too much work.

People are not logical, that should come neither as a shock or a surprise. There are so many reasons people vote for a candidate that does not mean they are doing it because they agree with that person on all the issues.

[Eviscero]

Not my problem, I'd rather not have my tax money spent on destroying life.

Unless rape or incest.

"Ban" doesn't mean "not funded by government."

[Halyon]

snip

The amniotic fluid keeps the fetus comatose and sedated through to birth. Along with not having a brain that could process pain for half the pregnancy, it literally, cannot feel pain while it's a relevant argument. So pardon me for not really caring about that part that doesn't exist.

That a fetus moves, is the brain test running the body to make sure that it works correctly. Automated process. You know, like your breathing.

[Jtbrig7390]

Now even the law begins to disagree, it shall continue as we make strides towards completely dismembering the idea of ending a beating heart.

A bug has a heart beat, so when you kill one by ur logic u should be arrested for murder.

Sorry but the government has no right to tell a person (in this case a woman) what they can do with there body.

[-aiko-]

6 weeks is such a joke. Not only do these people not care about women, they have no idea how a woman's body works, apparently.

[God Save The King]

It is infinitely simple. If a condom nor birth control pills were utilized, then they must take responsibility for their actions. Why is responsibility such a crime in our years?.

I assume you're referring to your personal narrow view on the term, which roughly correlates to carrying the fetus to term and raising it into adulthood. Many people believe, myself included, that an abortion is taking responsibility for your actions. It's a terribly hard choice for a woman and her family/loved ones to make. Sometimes the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. Sometime the pregnancy threatens the lifestyle of the mother. The reasons to have an abortion are wide and difficult. No one runs around having unprotected sex and getting on demand abortions every few weeks.

Accidents happen, safety measures fail, rape, incest, complications, etc. All of these, and more, can lead a woman choosing not to carry a fetus to term. Having the government intervene and forcing a birth is not good for the child or the mother. Who'd want to be the child of a mother who desperately wanted to get rid of you, but was forced to give birth to you.

[nextormento]

The real crux of the issue is bodily autonomy.

That some people wrongly believe it's about autonomy is an issue indeed.
If it was it'd be decriminalized, and that'd be it. Much like many freedoms, the right is recognized (or rather, it's not denied), but the means to achieve it land on the individual.
But neither side wants that to be the end of it: some want the draw lines -regulation-, some want the state to be the provider with no questions asked. These two come together necessarily: if the state provides, the state regulates.

The actual crux is drawing lines: be it time, personhood, ill economical/psychological/health effects or w/e.
Autonomy is a red herring, at best.

[Public Enemy Truth]

So you don't even know when/if a fetus can think or feel, but you keep pretending that a heartbeat makes it a person? Sorry, not a valid argument.

And where did you learn of this, are you within the profession of aborting children? Within my reply is a link. Did you learn from a link? And if so, you probably chose to believe the narrative the mainstream tells you.

I do appreciate you apologizing to me. However, Lemony-boy, you have no argument. No source, no material. Nothing but hatchet to hack off baby appendages. Congratulations, do you laugh like that black woman on video whom mentions how much she loves to kill her kids?

A bug has a heart beat, so when you kill one by ur logic u should be arrested for murder.

Sorry but the government has no right to tell a person (in this case a woman) what they can do with there body.

I appreciate the apologies, folks. However, a CHILD is not a bug. A baby is NOT a BUG. Wow, and now everyone lurking in this thread knows exactly why we are fighting the fight. And, why it is now taking off.

[NihilSustinet]

So you're 23 or younger. Nobody cares what you think. Especially after the hissy fit your snowflake generation has thrown over an election.

I welcome a future conservative once you realize how the world really works.

Actually, I should have said adult life. I'm 34, bush 1.0 was when i was still in grade school. And no, i will never be a conservative. conservative social politics objectively dont work. conservative economic policy objectively doesnt work. i know quite well how the world works, friendo, which is why I'm a liberal

[Ragnarohk]

Wow....
Let's decide something so controvertial around the contraction of a random organ....
They could have atleast used the nervous system / sentience as the deciding factor.

[Halyon]

That some people wrongly believe it's about autonomy is an issue indeed.
If it was it'd be decriminalized, and that'd be it. Much like many freedoms, the right is recognized (or rather, it's not denied), but the means to achieve it land on the individual.
But neither side wants that to be the end of it: some want the draw lines -regulation-, some want the state to be the provider with no questions asked. These two come together necessarily: if the state provides, the state regulates.

The actual crux is drawing lines: be it time, personhood, ill economical/psychological/health effects or w/e.
Autonomy is a red herring, at best.

Right, so we can force you to be tied down and stripped of some of your organs, and you can't say anything against it. Or you can be used to purify someone elses blood, you have no say. You can legally be sold, traded, used, abused and discarded as a slave.

You say the crux is drawing a line. By a near blanket-ban, you're not drawing a line, your taking an axe to the line. The line exists. At around 20 weeks. You just don't like it because it gets your knickers in a twist.

[Cerus]

It's not classified as a human being til brain functions begin. Silly.

Tread carefully. Many adults have less brain function than fetuses. Many in fact reside on these forums.

[Mistame]

The trace of a heart beat is a baby. Emotions is still a –fallacy– to you? What are you, but a robot with no remorse nor care for others? No care for the BEAT of a HEART. This, this is whom we fight against.

Emotion is irrelevant to any productive and rational discussion. Additionally, the "emotions" and opinions of others are irrelevant to the individual. Her body, her choice. Period. End of.

You cannot murder a fetus in any sense of the word.

People should understand words before they use them. Abortion lacks two qualifiers for that particular word.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I assume you're referring to your personal narrow view on the term, which roughly correlates to carrying the fetus to term and raising it into adulthood. Many people believe, myself included, that an abortion is taking responsibility for your actions. It's a terribly hard choice for a woman and her family/loved ones to make. Sometimes the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. Sometime the pregnancy threatens the lifestyle of the mother. The reasons to have an abortion are wide and difficult. No one runs around having unprotected sex and getting on demand abortions every few weeks.

Accidents happen, safety measures fail, rape, incest, complications, etc. All of these, and more, can lead a woman choosing not to carry a fetus to term. Having the government intervene and forcing a birth is not good for the child or the mother. Who'd want to be the child of a mother who desperately wanted to get rid of you, but was forced to give birth to you.

This post just makes too much sense. Could you tone it down a bit with the well thought out responses? We need more emotionally hysterical responses in this thread.

But clearly, these people want us to go back to the days when mothers would get back alley abortions, or leave their infants on the roadside, or just straight up give themselves miscarriages or kill their born baby. The instances of these things happening, where women actually killed their own living born baby dramatically decreased when abortion was made legal. Perhaps these people just want society to have more ACTUAL baby deaths?

[Lady Dragonheart]

Most women don't find out about their own pregnancy until they miss their next period, even then, many have erratic periods and wouldn't know if they are pregnant for much longer. Something like this will only cause drama and negative connotations among most younger people that like to have casual sex, flings, FwB, and use online dating sites. It doesn't seem like an inherently good idea, at all.