Secret CIA assessment says Russia was trying to help Trump

[Wells]

I mean she being one of the biggest hawks in politics atm

Lol not fucking even.

Are you suggesting she would back down on something she has repeated over and over and over and over?

Over starting a nuclear war?

Yes. I mean you're basically arguing she's so addled by bloodlust that she's suffering from psychopathy.

[Elegiac]

I am curious on how did you come up with that assumption, especially regarding Putin, an ex military who up to today the only signs he has given is not backing down. Care to explain?

Simple.

He's a despot, and like most despots that have their wits about them understand that launching the country into a contest which would damage the integrity of his leadership is not in his interests. This is why North Korea is full of shit about its posturing towards the South.

I mean she being one of the biggest hawks in politics atm, i have her capable of trying, yes. Are you suggesting she would back down on something she has repeated over and over and over and over?

She's a lot more amendable to adjusting her policies than Herr Trump.

[Ulmita]

Over starting a nuclear war?

Over trying to enforce a no fly zone over a close ally of Russia with whatever that means. But its not hard to understand that when Russian jets start to fall down and American also, things can lead fast to full out confrontation.

Why are you taking so lightly the danger behind shooting down Russian / American jets? Care to explain to us?

[Wells]

Over trying to enforce a no fly zone over a close ally of Russia with whatever that means. But its not hard to understand that when Russian jets start to fall down and American also, things can lead fast to full out confrontation.

Why are you taking so lightly the danger behind shooting down Russian / American jets? Care to explain to us?

Of course its dangerous to start shooting down planes. What I find laughable is that you seriously think Clinton is so wedded to this one particular policy plank that she'd start a nuclear war to get it. She's not a cartoon villain.

[belleflop]

Yeah, people like you are the reason that the American public was so willing to go to war with Iraq. Obviously the high-ranking government officials who know what they're talking about had it right when they said that Iraq was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. Nice ad hominem at the end there, you're just a big bag of logical fallacies it seems.

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"

Just for clarity we didn't go to war in IRAQ or Afghanistan. Also the president makes the ultimate decision to take any military action. Which is why it's so critical that the president surrounds himself with objective and critical thinkers. Currently Trump hands out cabinet positions like lollipops, to the good boys and girls that do what he says. If at a later date we find out that there are people assigned to his cabinet that disagree with him and still have their jobs I will retroactively rescind my comment.

That's a funny way of saying "I have no evidence except for these guys saying they really do have evidence, yet putting forward none of it."

Should we take Trump at his word that he doesn't believe the intelligence community and we should all just move on, ignore it and make America great again? Or do you think there should be an in-depth investigation into the hacking, and if found to be substantiated seems to be a big deal considering whatever foreign state decided to hack us had an agenda, and it would probably be nice to know what that agenda is/was?

[xfloydex]

The hacks took place 4 months before Trump even got the republican nomination. It helped Bernie Sanders more than it helped Trump. As it should have since we know the DNC was against him through those emails.

[Wells]

The hacks took place 4 months before Trump even got the republican nomination. It helped Bernie Sanders more than it helped Trump. As it should have since we know the DNC was against him through those emails.

That's why the long debate in the IC wasn't whether Russia did the hacking, but if they did it to specifically help Trump. The CIA thought they did, and apparently have convinced the DNI and FBI.

[Ulmita]

Of course its dangerous to start shooting down planes. What I find laughable is that you seriously think Clinton is so wedded to this one particular policy plank that she'd start a nuclear war to get it. She's not a cartoon villain.

Because she has repetitively said so. Maybe i shouldn't be believing on what people say. What makes you think she would back down on her beliefs?

https://youtu.be/8mNgElVy7eQ?t=3m24s

and the response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdGHjsSts0U

[Invrlose]

Just for clarity we didn't go to war in IRAQ or Afghanistan. Also the president makes the ultimate decision to take any military action. Which is why it's so critical that the president surrounds himself with objective and critical thinkers. Currently Trump hands out cabinet positions like lollipops, to the good boys and girls that do what he says. If at a later date we find out that there are people assigned to his cabinet that disagree with him and still have their jobs I will retroactively rescind my comment.



Should we take Trump at his word that he doesn't believe the intelligence community and we should all just move on, ignore it and make America great again? Or do you think there should be an in-depth investigation into the hacking, and if found to be substantiated seems to be a big deal considering whatever foreign state decided to hack us had an agenda, and it would probably be nice to know what that agenda is/was?

What? America fucking invaded Iraq in 2003, toppled the current regime and occupied it for over a decade. They invaded Afghanistan in 2001 and still have troops in both countries.

Nothing I said has anything to do with trump, and I'm not even sure what kind of point you're trying to make.

[Wells]

Because she has repetitively said so. Maybe i shouldn't be believing on what people say. What makes you think she would back down on her beliefs?

https://youtu.be/8mNgElVy7eQ?t=3m24s

and the response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdGHjsSts0U

Yes, I'm aware of what her policy plank was, we've already covered that. We're now talking about how absurd it is to just assume as fact that she'd pursue it to the point of nuclear weapon exchanges with Russia.

[Invrlose]

The hacks took place 4 months before Trump even got the republican nomination. It helped Bernie Sanders more than it helped Trump. As it should have since we know the DNC was against him through those emails.

And people are still ignoring the fact that if there wasn't damaging shit in the DNC emails then even if they were hacked, they couldn't have helped anybody. Don't be a scumfuck organization and then you won't suffer from being "exposed"

[Wells]

And people are still ignoring the fact that if there wasn't damaging shit in the DNC emails then even if they were hacked, they couldn't have helped anybody. Don't be a scumfuck organization and then you won't suffer from being "exposed"

This statement relies on the assumption that only things that are serious or true can be damaging. I think that's pretty obviously a bad assertion.

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Also this whole notion of "espionage is ok if there are people in it who have said bad things" is such an absurdly low bar that it would excuse Russia stealing information from basically any national organization.

[Hooked]

Put the evidence up, or STFU CIA.

[Independent voter]

Ex-Soviet States Tell US ‘I Told You So’ Over Russia Hacking Allegations

y Ivan Watson Antonia Mortensen and Victoria Butenko

PHILADELPHIA (CNN) — In several former Soviet republics, top security officials and even a former president are saying “I told you so” amid allegations of possible Russian hacking targeting the US presidential election campaign.

“Some things you discovered now as new in your pre-election campaign we’ve been seeing it already for years,” Janis Garisons, Secretary of State in Latvia’s Defense Ministry, told CNN.

Latvian government agencies come under frequent cyber attacks and other forms of hsybrid warfare that he believes originate from Russia, he said.

“For me, it’s déjà vu,” former Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili told CNN.

“In 2012, they (Russia) were heavily involved in Georgian elections. They’ve done cyber attacks over different time periods. They’ve done all kinds of media provocations.They’ve spread rumors. They’ve sent operatives to do all kinds of dirty tricks. And back then my friends from the US Embassy were saying ‘you’re over-reacting,'” added Saakashvili, who served two consecutive terms as president in Georgia before stepping down in 2013.

“I almost was vindicated when the same administration in Washington suddenly started to speak about Russian involvement in the election,” Saakashvili said.

Moscow denies involvement

Moscow has denied any involvement in alleged hacking targeting the US election.

On Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov said it is “indecent” of the US to “groundlessly” accuse Russia of intervention in its elections, previously officials have accused the Obama administration of scape-goating Russia to cover for Hillary Clinton’s defeat.

Ukraine, which has been embroiled in a deadly two-year war against separatists backed by neighboring Russia, announced on Friday that several of its government agencies have recently been the target of ten major cyber attacks.

“The targets include the state railroad company, the finance ministry and state treasure,” said Olena Gitlyanska, spokesperson for Ukraine’s state Security Service.

“They were able to overcome the consequences,” she added.

Last December, a separate cyber attack on a Ukrainian power company succeeded in completely blacking out more than one hundred cities and
partially depriving electricity to at least 186 other cities.

Experts from the US Department of Homeland Security assisted Ukraine with the subsequent investigation.

They concluded that the virus that targeted the electric company came from an infected Microsoft Word document believed to be of Russian origin.

Ukraine, Latvia and Georgia all have historically tense relationships with the Kremlin.

All three countries were ruled by Moscow for a half century or more when they were part of the Soviet Union.

Top officials in these countries accuse the present-day Russian government of continuing to try to dominate these former Soviet states.

“We’re facing Russian propaganda, information warfare and even psychological warfare almost daily,” said Garisons, of the Latvian Defense Ministry.

“There’s quite a clear attempt to undermine our statehood, or the belief of our people in our statehood.”
Hybrid warfare strategies

Russia’s so-called hybrid warfare strategies are rooted in Soviet intelligence tactics that were developed in the 1970s and 1980s, said Janis Sarts, director of the NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence in Riga, which studies Russia’s communications strategies.

“They use in a coordinated, coherent manner the traditional media, social media and also non-governmental actors and influence agents to achieve a desired effect on the audience,” Sarts said.

The centre published a report on the sudden shift that Russian state media, followed by pro-Russian blogs and Internet trolls, made when Russia launched its surprise military intervention into Syria this year.

“In two weeks time, all the discussion was about these “Nazi” Ukrainians and their horrible crimes, and then there was a 180% turn … to talking about Syria,” Sarts said.

Seated next to a bust of US president Ronald Reagan in Ukraine’s capital Kiev, Saakashvili, who famously took his country to war against Russia and lost in 2008, outlined his view of Putin’s endgame.

“The Kremlin ultimately and Putin especially, think that the United States need to be defeated,” he told CNN.

“That’s what Putin sees as the endgame for himself.”

“The destruction of NATO as an organization and the weakening of the United States and its severing from Europe.”

[Ulmita]

Russia challenges US to prove campaign hacking claims or shut up



They do have a point. When you claim something you need to back it up. Don't you guys think the government should make public their evidence?

"They should either stop talking about that or produce some proof at last. Otherwise it all begins to look unseemly," Peskov reportedly said about the latest accusations that Russia was responsible for hacker attacks.

[Wells]

Haha Russian government talking about unseemly. But yeah, I suspect a report will come out before too long.

[Ulmita]

Yes, I'm aware of what her policy plank was, we've already covered that. We're now talking about how absurd it is to just assume as fact that she'd pursue it to the point of nuclear weapon exchanges with Russia.

...shooting down Syrian / Russian Airforce with whatever that means. Yes sir, i think so she would.

[Kellhound]

Over trying to enforce a no fly zone over a close ally of Russia with whatever that means. But its not hard to understand that when Russian jets start to fall down and American also, things can lead fast to full out confrontation.

Why are you taking so lightly the danger behind shooting down Russian / American jets? Care to explain to us?

Because even during the Cold War, shooting down aircraft didnt lead to nuclear war.

[belleflop]

What? America fucking invaded Iraq in 2003, toppled the current regime and occupied it for over a decade. They invaded Afghanistan in 2001 and still have troops in both countries.

Nothing I said has anything to do with trump, and I'm not even sure what kind of point you're trying to make.

I generally don't like to reference wikipedia but for the purposes of clarity and because the page is nice and tightly I'll make an exception (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declar..._United_States)

Please note that last time we declared war. All others are considered engagements because you can't declare war on a terrorist organization, only on a foreign nation.
The media coined it this for sensationalism purposes. The word "war" to the media is a metaphor, diminished and insignificant, ie: the war of Christmas, the war on religious, class warfare, culture war, etc.

[Kellhound]

Russia challenges US to prove campaign hacking claims or shut up



They do have a point. When you claim something you need to back it up. Don't you guys think the government should make public their evidence?

Really depends on what the evidence is.