Truck drives into christmas market

[Wikiy]

Analyse the problem, identify the core root of it, fix it. Don't treat the symptom, treat the illness. The solution to stopping terrorism is possibly any or both of two things that I see so far: 1. Enduring terrorism until the terrorists die out or grow old, this has worked wonderfully for Germany and its own brand of terrorism, the RAF. 2. Go abroad and fuck someone's life up until they give in. This has been attempted by the US and resulted in even worse terrorism globally, especially the fallout to Europe just now. Btw, thanks USA.

Well, what have I been saying all along? Nothing will change until Islam changes from within. At no point did I encourage measures that go against the liberal and democratic foundation of Western society.

All I said, a bit back, is that if Islam doesn't change from within, we're in for a shitstorm. Because you're wrong. Terrorists don't die out. They don't just stop. Not these terrorists. They're on a divine mission to kill all of us. So how does this constitute a shitstorm? It's quite simple. Nevermind these tiny attacks and dozens of people dying. If this continues on, extremism will win, and islamophobic politions will be elected. At that point, certain illiberal measures will be introduced, and that's when the shitstorm will start. I'll leave the actual details to your imagination.

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That Woman is betraying her own Country

What is it with Crazy People capitalizing every Noun in a Sentence when talking about Ideology?

[Noradin]

I'm kinda with you on that. The problem is not "multiculturalism", however. Multiculturalism isn't about fusing cultures, it's about them co-existing and waiting for a natural merge (that is, assimilation of the smaller bit in our case, this Islam is still pretty exotic in Europe). The problem is the Geneva refugee convention and our belief that we should help other nations. You have two options: Stop helping other nations, block them off and let them kill each other until they realise that war is a stupid idea, much like Europe did... and it took us 2000 years of near constant warfare to learn this lesson... or do what we do now, and cope.

I totally understand your viewpoint. I share many of the sentiments. But in all earnestness, the right wing is playing into the terrorists hands. They are giving them an actual justification to a point where they don't need to rely on religion to pretend the just cause anymore. This isn't about me sticking my head in the sand, this is about me thinking two steps further and seeing the collision course that this right-wing train is set upon. This is me being selfish, not idealistic.

I don't actually give two fucks about Muslims, nor do I have much of respect for the way they act. But that doesn't mean I have to prove a point by being stupid myself.

Pretty much this.
We can discuss the Geneva Refugee Convention, but if we do we should be honest about it and not pretend it was something contemporary politicans just came up with on the spot. There is history and good reasons why we have it, and there will be consequences if we break it.

[ParanoiD84]

To bad germany dont have death penalty, this coward will most certainly try brainwash more people in prison.

Could always send him to pakistan or wherever he came from im sure they gladly execute him there.

[Wikiy]

I've gone into detail often enough on this forum. It's a bit tedious to repeat myself over and over again just because you don't happen to have been here in the past year and a half that this was an actual emerging trend-topic on the forum.

But to give you a sneak preview: Islam, much like Christianity, is primarily a religion founded on compassion and tolerance. Now IS takes up the Qu'ran, finds some verse about picking up arms to defend yourself, spins a crazy global attack on Muslim story and then tells its people some bullshit about jihad and lots of virgin sluts in the afterlife.

What do the Xenophobes do? Talk about how the Qu'ran is a violent religion that tells its followers to pick up weapons and kill unbelievers and how they all believe there are hordes of virgin sluts in the afterlife.

The irony is that this is just one bit in the actual texts, giving Muslims the right to self-defend and both IS and Islamophobes use it as a justification for offensive aggression. And both of them ignore the actual core of Islam.

The critics of Islam and/or the adopted European solution to the refugee crisis don't actually care about the religion. That's just pretense. They care about "the other people" and use Islam as a justification to sort them into "the other box" for easy differentiation.

Here's an interesting thought experiment for you: Remove Islam from the equation. Just pretend religion doesn't exist. Do you honestly believe that would stop the wave of terrorism? I don't. So if I make the assumption that religion is not the root of the problem, but rather a symptomatic tool that's abused to drive another agenda... what is the other agenda?

That's the really interesting question. But Xenophobes don't even reach that point, because they've stopped analysing the situation once they reached Islam as the first easy scapegoat to fuel their righteous fury. That is one of the main reasons why their attitude is not helping the situation, it's merely fueling the justification for IS.

The second we start murdering/deporting or otherwise mistreating Muslims based on their religion, what do you think IS will do? Right, the minute we start doing that, they'll go "See? We told you the West was evil!" and gather even moderate Muslims around them to prepare for an actual wave of terrorism and possibly war. So no, we cannot give in to this shit. We have to stick to our Western core values. And we have to cope with this shit until someone finds the magic solution. And to do that, we'll have to look past religion and find the actual agenda in the Middle East.

Slant, you're so high up in cloud cockoo-land. If you're so convinced there's another agenda, how about you actually give us the privilege of hearing your theory?

In the meantime, I'll stick to the theory where people who're yelling "God is great." when killing people are doing it because god told them to do it in the book that is the foundation of their religion.

FYI, Christians would be killing infidels left and right if that religion wasn't dragged out of savagery by force through Enlightment. Islam wasn't that lucky.

[Noradin]

Well, what have I been saying all along? Nothing will change until Islam changes from within. At no point did I encourage measures that go against the liberal and democratic foundation of Western society.

If that subset of the Islam changes people will find something new to create terrorists to further their selfish goals.

[Noogai131]

Well, they won't feel good about being used as a sarcastic discussion point, I am quite sure of that.

I bet those 9 dead people feel pretty good, knowing that islam isnt a problem

Im also pretty sure they wont feel good about being a random victim of islamic terrorism, terrorists who their own leader imported by the hundreds of thousands

I'm pretty sure dead people don't feel anything.

[Barnabas]

Failing idealistic policies produce terrible outcomes, who would have thought.

I just wonder how long people will keep allowing their government to run their country into the ground.

Merkel is very stubborn. Her 42% victory last election is quickly eroding. Hopefully germans wake up and begin responsible immigration policies.

[Suggs]

Dont worry Merkal has you all covered...............

[TrumpIsPresident]

Deflecting blame?! "the terrorist himself said why he did it" "but what he says is contradicting" "that´s just deflecting blame" ...

The White House didn't agree with the motives the terrorist gave as he committed his attack. The White House is saying it knows better. /shrug

[Wikiy]

If that subset of the Islam changes people will find something new to create terrorists to further their selfish goals.

Okay? How is this supposed to demotivate me from wanting a religion to improve itself? It's like saying you shouldn't eliminate famine in Nigeria because there'll still be famine left in Somalia.

[Kalis]

1) He wasn't proposing a wait-and-see method, but nice strawman.

We've already identified the problems, it is radical Islam and people pushing the idiocy that is multiculturalism.

2) You are implying we don't already have a laws against all those things you are listing for your zero tolerance policy. Want to guess what happens when you do those things you write about?

I have seen what they do. They say that you can't start testing ages of children as it is racist, even though those 'children' are quite clearly not. We have the authorities turning a blind eye to rapes as they are petrified of being called racists. We have people saying "So what if they lied on their application? We should still let them in" and if you say otherwise you are a racist.

Why are these 'refugees' allowed to go benefit shopping? Such as when they refuse help from the Maltese coastguard, because they want to go to Italy.

We have officials admitting that 60% of the refugees are economic migrants and not refugees at all, yet where are the mass deportations of these 60%? Why are any single one of those people still in Europe when they intentionally abused the system?

Laws are no good if they aren't being enforced and when people see laws not being enforced they start turning to people who promise to enforce them, people like Le Pen.

[Blobfish]

To bad germany dont have death penalty, this coward will most certainly try brainwash more people in prison.

Could always send him to pakistan or wherever he came from im sure they gladly execute him there.

German Right wing will grow stronger after this

Wouldnt be surprised to see a few Migrant camps burned tonight.

Eye for an Eye I think the Old Testament reads

[ParanoiD84]

German Right wing will grow stronger after this

Wouldnt be surprised to see a few Migrant camps burned tonight.

Eye for an Eye I think the Old Testament reads

Can also put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life i dont care as long as he does not get the chance to brainwash more people.

[Wikiy]

Eye for an Eye I think the Old Testament reads

Hammurabian Code, but okay.

[Ravenblade]

Well, what have I been saying all along? Nothing will change until Islam changes from within. At no point did I encourage measures that go against the liberal and democratic foundation of Western society.

All I said, a bit back, is that if Islam doesn't change from within, we're in for a shitstorm. Because you're wrong. Terrorists don't die out. They don't just stop. Not these terrorists. They're on a divine mission to kill all of us. So how does this constitute a shitstorm? It's quite simple. Nevermind these tiny attacks and dozens of people dying. If this continues on, extremism will win, and islamophobic politions will be elected. At that point, certain illiberal measures will be introduced, and that's when the shitstorm will start. I'll leave the actual details to your imagination.

The Islamists of today are using a version of Sunni Islam that has changed from within and was sold as reformation. Like two times I've explained that now in this thread. Reformation != "good version of bad religion" coming out of it, on the contrary it can make things even worse. In fact the change doesn't have to come from within at all, it has to come from without. There needs to be cultural, economic and scientific pressure, enough to give way for reason. There is plenty of examples this has worked in human history. You know Cicero once said: Ubi bene ibi patria! It is a motto which Romanized Germans widely adopted and they readily forfeited their own old cultures and traditions because going back was just considered a downgrade. Look where religious extremism strives the most, it isn't certainly the regions with high HDI.

[Austilias]

Do we have those nice Facebook filters yet? I want to start virtue-signalling already.

[Mayhem]

We've already identified the problems, it is radical Islam and people pushing the idiocy that is multiculturalism.

From a brit living in Malta... the irony.

[Slant]

Well, what have I been saying all along? Nothing will change until Islam changes from within. At no point did I encourage measures that go against the liberal and democratic foundation of Western society.

All I said, a bit back, is that if Islam doesn't change from within, we're in for a shitstorm. Because you're wrong. Terrorists don't die out. They don't just stop. Not these terrorists. They're on a divine mission to kill all of us. So how does this constitute a shitstorm? It's quite simple. Nevermind these tiny attacks and dozens of people dying. If this continues on, extremism will win, and islamophobic politions will be elected. At that point, certain illiberal measures will be introduced, and that's when the shitstorm will start. I'll leave the actual details to your imagination.

I'm telling you once more, if you remove the religion from the equation, terrorism won't stop. It's not the core motivation of their attacks. It's the justification they use to impress the feeble minded. Sure, a bit of change from within doesn't hurt Islam. Christianity could do with some reforms in Catholicism itself, no abortion? In this day and age? Come on.

But you're insinuating that Islam is the problem. It's not. The shitstorm's gonna happen with or without Islam unless we steer clear of it. We cannot just hope for a miracle prophet to appear and tell Muslims that fighting is bad, mkay? We're going to have to dodge them and not stoop down to their level. It's the harder choice, it requires more courage. It's the right thing to do.

Hating is easy. Cowards hate all the time. While we're being called cucks, pussies and whatnot, I can't help thinking... yes, and we're the ones that stand up to this properly, despite our own people shitting on us for it. Guess IS is right and the West is degenerated...

[Wikiy]

The Islamists of today are using a version of Sunni Islam that has changed from within and was sold as reformation. Like two times I've explained that now in this thread. Reformation != "good version of bad religion" coming out of it, on the contrary it can make things even worse. In fact the change doesn't have to come from within at all, it has to come from without. There needs to be cultural, economic and scientific pressure, enough to give way for reason. There is plenty of examples this has worked in human history. You know Cicero once said: Ubi bene ibi patria! It is a motto which Romanized Germans widely adopted and they readily forfeited their own old cultures and traditions because going back was just considered a downgrade. Look where religious extremism strives the most, it isn't certainly the regions with high HDI.

I agree with you. When I say "Islam needs to change from within", I mean from within Muslim society and all the various countries and peoples. I don't mean from within itself. Only something similar to the Enlightment will work. However, I'm not sure if this will ever happened. The Enlightment happened only because there were things to discover. Science pushed Christianity out of the Middle Ages, through middlemen the likes of Voltaire. Muslims (I'm not talking about Western ones here) don't have anything to discover, nor are they even trying to.

[Austilias]

But you're insinuating that Islam is the problem. It's not.

You keep telling yourself that