7.1.5 Ptr Changes

[Tabrotar]

Hm so if all demons got buffed (which means terror/doomguard) and they already where the to go singel target talent choice (which means they were stronger then the imp before) how is the imp not inferior? Even with the buff?

[Gaidax]

Hm so if all demons got buffed (which means terror/doomguard) and they already where the to go singel target talent choice (which means they were stronger then the imp before) how is the imp not inferior? Even with the buff?

Imp got buffed as well? Also, how do you conclude Service is inferior to Supremacy?

And finally what does it have to do with Artifact Trait? You do realize it increases Doomguard damage if you take Grimoire of Supremacy as your talent pick?

Oh guess you don't, but you are still too eager to bash Blizzard for what ends up by you not knowing basics.

[Shandalar]

Any of warlock specs is unplayable? News to me.

Also in regards to "defending" anything, I'm not for Blizzard, I'm against stupid.

Its called Demonology

Yeah, u are not defending anything. Sure.

[Gaidax]

Its called Demonology

Yeah, u are not defending anything. Sure.

Dunno, I think I'd rather go by what this guy says and not by you, as you are obviously biased as fuck?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post43896708

Feel free to claim he has no idea what he is talking about or is a Blizzard shill...

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with you and the guys like you is that you simply can't help but toss hyperboles around, which leads to you looking like fools and your message falling through the cracks of nonsense you created.

Like here, you just HAD to go ahead and claim warlocks having unplayable spec out of blue and make a fool of yourself. Ironic really, you guys pretty much do a better job of defeating your arguments than I ever do.

[Nerfarien]

Honestly? You just said a bunch of random shit void of any sort actual information.

How about something concrete as to why you consider things "clunky/boring/broken" for the sake of argument?

You aren't going to impress anyone by tossing random worn out phrases around. Clunky is about as meaningless as it gets.

I do not know why I had the slightest hope that you will not don the shining armor of the undisputed white knight and claim belittling things about facts others say just because you perch high atop of your Destruction throne with the best possible legendary but alas, I think I am in the mood to go for a windmill chasing fight with you. A little bickering is what you seek it seems seeing how you almost literally made almost everyone to roll their eyes after reading your pompous comments.

So now that I have finished with my personal rambling here is what I think the problem is with the specs. No, I do not claim they are unplayable, they are viable. All I say is that there are massive, glaring problems.

- Destro's reliance on RNG. I am not talking about the mastery here, it is mainly about ember generation, seeing how Incinerate is useless and is just a filler which literally serves no purpose right now. Of course it would be a folly to argue about why this is a thing since you have the only counter to this issue (Feretory) so all I say is that it does exist - for now. In NH the tier set will probably remedy this issue so this is not a world breaking one. It was clearly Blizzard's intention to make Destro good at cleave and 'decent' at ST so I will not make claims about Destro should be the most prominent ST spec ever - though the fact that with Feretory (and with the good boss) one can be competetive with others still makes me chuckle.

- The general lack of AoE in all three specs without talenting into it. In an age when Mages' ST passively cleaves, DK's almost every attack is a cleave and Hunters take an AoE spell because it is a pure ST increase one might wonder why on earth are ALL of the three specs suck at AoE when in previous expacs at least one excelled at it. Without investing talents into them they are outrageously laughable and pointless.

- Demo as a turret spec. A way worse variation of the Demonbolt turret bullshit which was in Highmaul the spec feels outright dead boring and mind numbing to play. If fortune shines upon you and you need not to move you are rewarded with good ST damage but god forbid there is a single mechanic you need to look out for and your damage sinks drastically. The utter reliance of continuous demon spam is frankly retarded and antiquated at best, not to mention the retarded mechanic that is DE which you need to manage all the time whenever you spew out new demon babies. Granted, the new Norgannon will solve a lot of these issues for Demo next patch so this - if you have it - will not be a glaring problem any more, but again, I find it retarded to put the solution to the crippling flaw of a spec into a legendary is stupid.

- The double resource starvation of Affliction. The fact that you need to rely on both souls and shards is utterly stupid, especially on fights where no adds or very few of them spawn in very irregular intervals. I get the thing that Affliction is supposed to excel at add fights the most but it is called "Trash Spec" for a reason because aside from assisting during mindless whoring of killing adds it purpose is nonexistent at best. This is why the spec was primarily used in M+ until they have discovered its potential in cleave - but since Destro fills that role in EN/ToV and with Feretory it can blast Affliction out of existence on ST I see no point using it unless you have legendaries for it.

- Soul Effigy as a thing. Hopefully on pure ST fights in 7.1.5. MG+SC will outweigh the horrifying bullshit that is Effigy because that piece of crap is a burden on so many levels that it is excruciating. It does not only make DPSing clunky but due to the loss of Soul Swap the fact that if the boss goes away and you need to redot your Effigy or reposition it you will have to suffer a lot of DPS loss since Agony has to ramp up again and without the Helm it is painstakingly slow.

I didn't want to bring up the confusing, outright stupid talent changes or the broken abilities which are still in the game since alpha (affli artifact ability, CDF) since these are things that are constantly changing and can be ironed out in any moment. My SUBJECTIVE point is that for ME personally the specs feel utterly garbage and have glaring, incredible flaws which will likely not be addressed before a new expansion comes out (a positive example of it was the utterly broken Destro/Affli in MoP).

The so claimed 'hyperboles' I mentioned in my earlier posts are my observations, observations which I after playing more than a decades of non-stop warlock feel to be excessive and purely badly designed. The 'class fantasy' worked out for some classes (I love playing my DK alt) for warlock I believe it was a ridiculous hit. Even if the argument is that in Nighthold gear and full legendaries you will be dominating and top of the meters I do not think it is good to punish people BEFORE they have a chance just to get those pieces of items and balancing people around artifact weapons and tier sets is just outright laughable and questionable at best.

I hope against hope that at least SOME of these arguments you will actually not outright deny and see the reason in them. I am not saying you can not work around these flaws, hell, that is what we all do right now. But there is no denying in the fact that warlocks are bleeding from many wounds and the questionable bandaids Blizzard is giving us does little to help.

[Gaidax]

See? Was that hard?

Much better than the usual "this shit is clunky wtf Blizz" shit.


I agree on Soul Effigy fully, the rest is much murkier waters.

AoE part is correct, but it's not a unique issue for Warlocks - many classes and specs have to take AoE talent to actually effectively AoE, so I am not sure how our situation is different, except for one important part where our AoE talents are mixed with ST talents, something I do not like. 7.1.5 is an improvement for Destruction, but Affliction and Demo still have this issue. So it's "yes, but" kind of thing from me. I personally would like to see them introduce dedicated AoE and ST rows instead of trying to spice things by mixing these around.

Destruction RNG I disagree simply because of the way it works, where you have so many RNG events that it actually evens out by itself, that said Embers will be back in some capacity, so your point is bound to be addressed. As a side note, I think current iteration of Incinerate not being a builder is a blessing in disguise many do not comprehend, as it makes Destruction resource generation mobile, unlike for example Demonology that is hurt plenty by Shadow Bolt/Demonbolt being the builder. IMO, what you ask for by trying to make Incinerate "meaningful" is basically the same thing you are trying to get rid of in some paragraph below for Demo.

Demo turret spec is pretty much strange to hear from you, you complain about it, but you want the same treatment for Destruction with making Incinerate into Shadow Bolt effectively? I think there is a logic gap here. Back to Demo, I think it's generally fine - it's not something strange to ask from a ranged damage dealer to have it chain hardcast to offer optimal damage. IMO, you misidentified the issue, the issue is not turret or not, simply because turret specs can be very successful provided adequate tuning, but such offenders like Demonic Empowerment being more annoying than it should have been, if it would have been made somehow less spammy, it would solve many issues like lining up TKC or even alleviate some movement disruption headaches. But as a whole, turret is fine, as long as it delivers.

Double resource starvation for Affliction is just fancy words, what Affliction could use is some sort of resource booster on demand as a big cooldown a-la Empowered Rune Weapon to help with pull or some hairy moments during the encounter where you need these shards and souls, but if it won't get it - it will be fine too. 7.1.5 did a lot of good for Aff, so just need to wait and see how it plays out for now.


You see, I am a reasonable person as long as you are reasonable. If you give actual arguments with actual merit to them, then discussion can be had. If someone just waltzes in and starts spouting "lyl warlocks unplayable" or "clunky gameplay", it's non-starter.

[Nerfarien]

My issue with Demo is the incredible punishment for moving. Sure, you can use Life Tap for mana or Demonwrath for minimal damage gain but at least Destro has a lot of instants to use which helps to make moving less painful. Demo does not really have any strong instants sadly, that is my main issue with it. Spewing out demons is fancy (or well, for me it was) for the first few occasions but people pointed it out that they are glorified dots that are LoSable. That is a bit harsh but yes, generally I dislike the spec greatly. Still, I respect its ST and I will play it, that is how it always has been in mythic environments. And Norgannon, as I mentioned, could help it get better.

I would not mind Feretory being baked into Incinerate for that matter with the nerfed version or even more nerfs. Like 5-10% chance to generate a shard is not something that I find unreasonable... right now it serves no other purpose than just pure damage, at least Drain Life heals for affli (and DS will get shards) and Demonbolt/Shadowbolt generates shards. Then again, I am not a designer so idk what Blizzard is up to.

[Gaidax]

My issue with Demo is the incredible punishment for moving. Sure, you can use Life Tap for mana or Demonwrath for minimal damage gain but at least Destro has a lot of instants to use which helps to make moving less painful. Demo does not really have any strong instants sadly, that is my main issue with it. Spewing out demons is fancy (or well, for me it was) for the first few occasions but people pointed it out that they are glorified dots that are LoSable. That is a bit harsh but yes, generally I dislike the spec greatly. Still, I respect its ST and I will play it, that is how it always has been in mythic environments. And Norgannon, as I mentioned, could help it get better.

I would not mind Feretory being baked into Incinerate for that matter with the nerfed version or even more nerfs. Like 5-10% chance to generate a shard is not something that I find unreasonable... right now it serves no other purpose than just pure damage, at least Drain Life heals for affli (and DS will get shards) and Demonbolt/Shadowbolt generates shards. Then again, I am not a designer so idk what Blizzard is up to.

Demonology weakness is that it can't reliably generate shards on the move.

Destruction does not have such issue, so I am not sure why you try to create this issue for Destruction as well by adding resource generation to turret spell.Then your offer to basically make Feretory baseline, isn't it going against your Destruction RNG issue?

See? Things are not that simple.

In my opinion it is completely fine for Incinerate to just be a filler, often problems start when mechanics are being added just for the sake of adding mechanic. This is is basically what happened to WoD demo which kept having random shut over the years piling on until it became a mess.

Bottom line, it's fine to have Incinerate just be a filler, trying to turn it into generator will just end up making the same issue as Demo where movement ends up being a costly resource loss and as a result Destruction will end up less mobile just for sake of adding shit it does not need...

[Bullettime]

Demonology weakness is that it can't reliably generate shards on the move.

Destruction does not have such issue, so I am not sure why you try to create this issue for Destruction as well by adding resource generation to turret spell.Then your offer to basically make Feretory baseline, isn't it going against your Destruction RNG issue?

See? Things are not that simple.

In my opinion it is completely fine for Incinerate to just be a filler, often problems start when mechanics are being added just for the sake of adding mechanic. This is is basically what happened to WoD demo which kept having random shut over the years piling on until it became a mess.

Bottom line, it's fine to have Incinerate just be a filler, trying to turn it into generator will just end up making the same issue as Demo where movement ends up being a costly resource loss and as a result Destruction will end up less mobile just for sake of adding shit it does not need...

Yeah...more resources sounds awesome until you realize that you'll be balanced around turret time and all those additional resources. It just makes you more locked into turreting like Demonology is where if it can't keep that soul shard train rolling, it falls off a cliff.

I really think some of the adjustments to Destro were in the right direction. Is it there yet? Maybe not. But the changes were certainly good and it's up to the number tuning to determine the outcome. The buff to CDF and the imp were really underrated, especially the imp that doesn't lose DPS while you're moving.

[Gaidax]

Yeah...more resources sounds awesome until you realize that you'll be balanced around turret time and all those additional resources. It just makes you more locked into turreting like Demonology is where if it can't keep that soul shard train rolling, it falls off a cliff.

Exactly so.

That's why things need to be carefully considered and people jumping the "lol just give back Embers" gun and trying to make Incinerate "useful", seem to be not realizing that they may create more issues than solve.

I think the best would be somewhere mid-way, where Embers are back in some capacity, but Incinerate does not become generator, which will be more of a nerf than an improvement.

[Jondar]

I do not know why I had the slightest hope that you will not don the shining armor of the undisputed white knight and claim belittling things about facts others say just because you perch high atop of your Destruction throne with the best possible legendary but alas

Lmao @ calling what 'others say' facts. They are not facts. They are subjective opinions that are built around largely inexperienced people. Calling someone inexperienced if they are inexperienced should not be taken as belitting them - if I offered NASA a revamped Space Program with 0 experience in outer space, but I watched a couple Star Wars movies, do you think it would be belittling of them to reject it?

The so claimed 'hyperboles' I mentioned in my earlier posts are my observations, observations which I after playing more than a decades of non-stop warlock feel to be excessive and purely badly designed.

Actually, the hyperboles you mentioned are hyperboles.

- Soul Effigy as a thing. Hopefully on pure ST fights in 7.1.5. MG+SC will outweigh the horrifying bullshit that is Effigy because that piece of crap is a burden on so many levels that it is excruciating. It does not only make DPSing clunky but due to the loss of Soul Swap the fact that if the boss goes away and you need to redot your Effigy or reposition it you will have to suffer a lot of DPS loss since Agony has to ramp up again and without the Helm it is painstakingly slow.

Effigy is honestly not that bad and the only people that dislike it are people that don't want to have to track it. It should move around with its target, yes. But past that its "clunkiness" is just an excuse for people to not have to get better at maintaining dots on more targets and they don't want to have to learn how to use macros properly. It's no coincidence that a large portion of the complaints and feedback come from low parsing, minimally progressed Afflocks. The same was true for Arcane Mages. Does that mean everyone likes it? No. But that's the nature of the game - not everyone likes everything, and just because the consensus of the highly-occupied-bottom is that it's bad does not mean it is actually bad.

- The double resource starvation of Affliction. The fact that you need to rely on both souls and shards is utterly stupid, especially on fights where no adds or very few of them spawn in very irregular intervals. I get the thing that Affliction is supposed to excel at add fights the most but it is called "Trash Spec" for a reason because aside from assisting during mindless whoring of killing adds it purpose is nonexistent at best. This is why the spec was primarily used in M+ until they have discovered its potential in cleave - but since Destro fills that role in EN/ToV and with Feretory it can blast Affliction out of existence on ST I see no point using it unless you have legendaries for it.

This is pretty factually incorrect. Destro is no longer blasting Affliction out of cleave fights. Affliction has greater max output potential than Destruction as it stands right now and as stat thresholds increase it is going to at least be competitive with Destro in most cleave situations. On top of that, obtaining souls from trash is not even an issue because of how many add encounters there are in EN/ToV/NH. This argument holds as much substance as the "BUT DESTROS ST!11" argument. It's natural for classes to have strengths and weaknesses. This is one of those situations.

- Demo as a turret spec. A way worse variation of the Demonbolt turret bullshit which was in Highmaul the spec feels outright dead boring and mind numbing to play. If fortune shines upon you and you need not to move you are rewarded with good ST damage but god forbid there is a single mechanic you need to look out for and your damage sinks drastically. The utter reliance of continuous demon spam is frankly retarded and antiquated at best, not to mention the retarded mechanic that is DE which you need to manage all the time whenever you spew out new demon babies. Granted, the new Norgannon will solve a lot of these issues for Demo next patch so this - if you have it - will not be a glaring problem any more, but again, I find it retarded to put the solution to the crippling flaw of a spec into a legendary is stupid.

Entirely subjective. There is a huge fanbase for single target turret specs and movement is only an issue for people who do not know how to anticipate it. That comes from learning the encounters moreso than the spec. There can be quite a bit of movement in Nyth yet it performs very well on that fight. There is constant circling, knockbacks, and potential movement on Ursoc - Demo performs very well on that fight. In fact, in EN the fights that have less movement aren't even Demo's strongest points. This is another argument brought up by people with inexperience and/or lack of personal capability in the spec. The concept of "blame the class instead of the player" is pretty rampant in a lot of "feedback."

- The general lack of AoE in all three specs without talenting into it. In an age when Mages' ST passively cleaves, DK's almost every attack is a cleave and Hunters take an AoE spell because it is a pure ST increase one might wonder why on earth are ALL of the three specs suck at AoE when in previous expacs at least one excelled at it. Without investing talents into them they are outrageously laughable and pointless.

Cata's new likelihood of being chosen on AoE fights and the changes to CDF give us AoE.


I have no idea why I responded to these paragraphs in the order that I did, by the way.

[Bullettime]

Exactly so.

That's why things need to be carefully considered and people jumping the "lol just give back Embers" gun and trying to make Incinerate "useful", seem to be not realizing that they may create more issues than solve.

I think the best would be somewhere mid-way, where Embers are back in some capacity, but Incinerate does not become generator, which will be more of a nerf than an improvement.

I honestly wouldn't mind a simple Ember/fel power bar, despite being so close to Shaman Maelstrom. Immolation ticks charge the bar, Conflag adds a larger chunk of power, Rain of Fire and Chaos Bolt consume the power. It's simple but effective. Just give it a red or green resource bar and some fiery animations and boom.

Ember bits that people are asking for were already a similar system anyways but with a weirder UI. Destro already has an annoying amount of RNG through its Mastery. The rest could arguably be streamlined and feel fine. We don't need any RNG shards, beyond the legendary, on top of RNG Mastery, the RNG legendary traits, etc.

[Jondar]

All the feedback I saw on Soul Effigy through the alpha and beta was detailing the actual reasons the thing was bad and horrible to use: it got totally ignored, the only changes they ever made was to nerf the damage....several times.

Now almost a year after the Legion alpha hit, the developers themselves say that Soul Effigy is pretty bad and for exactly the same reasons the players were telling them it was bad all through that year. But they announce it like it's a sudden revelation. It's like "hey we've suddenly realised..." the icing on the cake being an admission that the Soul Effigy feedback was exactly the same as the feedback they'd got on Prismatic Crystal. Einstein's defintion of madness. Sad thing is that I actually LIKE the concept of Soul Effigy, it's just hideously horrible to use in practise.

Sorry, do you have a link to Blizzard saying they admit Soul Effigy is bad? And for what reasons? Because the only real problem with it is that it doesn't move with its target. Other than that, people dislike it because they don't want to learn how to use it (tracking more DoTs, dealing with Macros.). People that are good with it mind it less and less, and lots of people like it. Repeating that this was the same for Arcane Crystal - people that couldn't get full use out of it decided to blame design rather than themselves.

Sure, there are posts that make unreasonable demands, or just want flat buffs, but there are many more that go into great detail about problems, why they are problems, and proposing perfectly reasonable solutions.

Are you saying there are many more constructive feedback posts that come from sources of merit than there are hysterical 'feedback' full of hyperbole that come from people that don't really know what they're doing to begin with? Because I would absolutely challenge that sentiment.

It also doesn't help at all when you get a Q&A session telling you the warlock ethos is tankiness and if it's not working with lot sof complaints about lack of mobility the preferred response is to double down on a strength followed a week later by making Dmeon Skin and Dark Pact mutually exclusive. Or when they tell you that the "talents most players pick are going baseline" and, well, for affliction they chose....drain soul. And destruction and demo...?

I think players can be forgiven for a certain cynicism.

Yes, that was a confusing thing in terms of our survivability. No qualms there. But on them saying they were going to make things baseline, one thing I noticed is Warlocks decided to take that to mean that it was directed specifically towards them. It wasn't. They have a lot of classes to look at. Sucks that we aren't their focal point, but what else is new? Any experienced Warlock knows this is how things go, and any experienced Warcraft player knows that focus changes a lot throughout expansions. One minute its mages, next minute its druids, then its hunters, etc. And on top of that, there was no deadline given for when these things would become baseline. We are currently coming to a .5 patch that was pretty clearly stated to not have any major changes.

People looked too far into those comments and expect too much too soon.

[evertonbelmontt]

Changes to afflic seems preeetty good, the only thing I dislike is Seed costing a shard.

All the rest will be a matter of # to me, really looking forward to it and the new pvp talents.

As for destruction, seriously, don't you guys get tired of it? It's been MoP, WoD, and legion now with destro being basically the same thing as always ...

[Deleted]

I dont know has this been written yet but..

Why cant they do havoc reducing damage tiny bit if "cleave" is the reason destro SINGLE TARGET is nerfed?
Like do 80% dmg instead of 100% if its really that OP? Besides our mastery RNG kinda does the havoc nerf anyway :P

I mean it cant be that they know something we dont. If they knew that destro would be OP as heck in Nighthold.. I would understand.
But blizzard doesnt raid the raids themselves.
I mean come on, one of their senior devs play on vacom tablet instead of mouse.

[Jondar]

I dont know has this been written yet but..

Why cant they do havoc reducing damage tiny bit if "cleave" is the reason destro SINGLE TARGET is nerfed?
Like do 80% dmg instead of 100% if its really that OP? Besides our mastery RNG kinda does the havoc nerf anyway :P

I mean it cant be that they know something we dont. If they knew that destro would be OP as heck in Nighthold.. I would understand.
But blizzard doesnt raid the raids themselves.
I mean come on, one of their senior devs play on vacom tablet instead of mouse.

Sensibly Destruction Warlocks do not want to sacrifice our niche in favor of single target, given how irrelevant single target output has proven throughout this expansion.

[Bullettime]

Sorry, do you have a link to Blizzard saying they admit Soul Effigy is bad? And for what reasons? Because the only real problem with it is that it doesn't move with its target. Other than that, people dislike it because they don't want to learn how to use it (tracking more DoTs, dealing with Macros.). People that are good with it mind it less and less, and lots of people like it. Repeating that this was the same for Arcane Crystal - people that couldn't get full use out of it decided to blame design rather than themselves.



Are you saying there are many more constructive feedback posts that come from sources of merit than there are hysterical 'feedback' full of hyperbole that come from people that don't really know what they're doing to begin with? Because I would absolutely challenge that sentiment.



Yes, that was a confusing thing in terms of our survivability. No qualms there. But on them saying they were going to make things baseline, one thing I noticed is Warlocks decided to take that to mean that it was directed specifically towards them. It wasn't. They have a lot of classes to look at. Sucks that we aren't their focal point, but what else is new? Any experienced Warlock knows this is how things go, and any experienced Warcraft player knows that focus changes a lot throughout expansions. One minute its mages, next minute its druids, then its hunters, etc. And on top of that, there was no deadline given for when these things would become baseline. We are currently coming to a .5 patch that was pretty clearly stated to not have any major changes.

People looked too far into those comments and expect too much too soon.

Soul Effigy is more annoying because of the amount of additional UI and macro support you have to provide in order to use it even remotely well. It's basically a giant pain in the ass unless you set up additional focus macros, weak auras, etc. You shouldn't have to use add ons and macros just to make something not feel like garbage. If it needs that, it's a bad design.

The concept of Effigy is fine. They admitted in a blue post that they thought it was bad, along with Demonic Empowerment, because the single mechanic detracts away from the rest of the spec and drags it down because you have to maintain it.

[Jondar]

Soul Effigy is more annoying because of the amount of additional UI and macro support you have to provide in order to use it even remotely well. It's basically a giant pain in the ass unless you set up additional focus macros, weak auras, etc. You shouldn't have to use add ons and macros just to make something not feel like garbage. If it needs that, it's a bad design.

I mean, maintaining two dots on an additional target (assuming Absolute Corruption) is not be beyond anyone whose feedback should be taken seriously as a Warlock. The most you need to use it well is make a focus macro, have your focus bar somewhere visible, and track your dots normally. That's it. If you can't do that you shouldn't have your feedback considered. Classes should not be balanced around the incapable.

The concept of Effigy is fine. They admitted in a blue post that they thought it was bad, along with Demonic Empowerment, because the single mechanic detracts away from the rest of the spec and drags it down because you have to maintain it.

Yeah, I'm asking for the link to the blue post. Never saw one saying it was bad.

[Violetti]

Sorry, do you have a link to Blizzard saying they admit Soul Effigy is bad? And for what reasons? Because the only real problem with it is that it doesn't move with its target. Other than that, people dislike it because they don't want to learn how to use it (tracking more DoTs, dealing with Macros.). People that are good with it mind it less and less, and lots of people like it. Repeating that this was the same for Arcane Crystal - people that couldn't get full use out of it decided to blame design rather than themselves.

"Mechanics like Demonic Empowerment and Soul Effigy are cumbersome to manage and while they have strong spec-specific theming, the actual gameplay of using them drags down their respective specs."

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=3#post-59


I agree either make it move with the target or the player, maybe even rework it in ourself being the soul effigy

I dont know has this been written yet but..

Why cant they do havoc reducing damage tiny bit if "cleave" is the reason destro SINGLE TARGET is nerfed?
Like do 80% dmg instead of 100% if its really that OP? Besides our mastery RNG kinda does the havoc nerf anyway :P

I mean it cant be that they know something we dont. If they knew that destro would be OP as heck in Nighthold.. I would understand.
But blizzard doesnt raid the raids themselves.
I mean come on, one of their senior devs play on vacom tablet instead of mouse.

Ion downed m xavius some weeks ago, and I'm sure there are more dev raiding than you think

[Bullettime]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=3#post-59