Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[AeneasBK]

was a long time ago. can we agree a range around 2.5x hp in wotlk for dps vs bc, ilvl 115 vs 200?

if we assume low-end (and you are right I think, 2.5x), then I remain certain wotlk heroic trash damage did not scale up 2.5x, nor even close. could take too many hits and not die. i remember bc heroic trash would hit my mailleather char. for 4k melee. two hits or a white and yellow hit - dead, in one gcd sometimes.

TBH I'd still question your numbers - I still think it's closer (but certainly not below) 2x. Anyway, I agree it was a buffer, but certainly you were gibbed quicker in TBC; no questions asked. If the tank had to tank 2 mobs from a pull you got rid of the DPS who couldn't CC and went back to trade etc.

Nevertheless, I'd still maintain that until the servers had reached the stage where you were more likely than not to meet a raid geared or equivalent party member the dungeons were not AoE snoozefests. Once 3/5 were Naxx+ (or the tank was 220+) geared fine; but I would say that wasn't happening until Ulduar was well out.

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Ah yeah. On the subject of Mages, this is a close second place.

The competition is so tough...

The last definately loses points for the choice of music

[Deficineiron]

Im fairly certain I could do the safety dance using only my left hand.

I will explain it in actual game terms one last time so you understand

Mangle MUST be pressed off cooldown followed by Thrash (1 and 3)
any delay/downtime pressing those is a damage loss meaning you are not getting the most out of Guardian
gotta put up a stack of ironfur (R) ironfur 100% uptime while tanking is the gucci
oh shit Im also about to take a big hit better press a cooldown (shift-4) ... fuck I cant click abilities cause then I am no longer mystic -owait
Instead of somehow magically managing to press 1, 3, R and shift-4 all at the same time with my left hand like some sort of wizard...
right hand comes in to save the day... boop done all 4 buttons pressed within a second

hai gusy

sum durid not reads alamos durids guide

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TBH I'd still question your numbers - I still think it's closer (but certainly not below) 2x. Anyway, I agree it was a buffer, but certainly you were gibbed quicker in TBC; no questions asked. If the tank had to tank 2 mobs from a pull you got rid of the DPS who couldn't CC and went back to trade etc.

Nevertheless, I'd still maintain that until the servers had reached the stage where you were more likely than not to meet a raid geared or equivalent party member the dungeons were not AoE snoozefests. Once 3/5 were Naxx+ (or the tank was 220+) geared fine; but I would say that wasn't happening until Ulduar was well out.

maybe was 2x. i dont have ss's of that I don't think.

The only observations I can add is that I brought up the non-scaled damage in the 3.0.8 thread, and that I quit before 3.1 and did not play max-level content again in wow ever (did do a lot of leveling and bg leveling stuff later on), so my impression of wotlk heroics are completely pre-3.1.

[AeneasBK]

The only observations I can add is that I brought up the non-scaled damage in the 3.0.8 thread, and that I quit before 3.1 and did not play max-level content again in wow ever (did do a lot of leveling and bg leveling stuff later on), so my impression of wotlk heroics are completely pre-3.1.

And to give credit thats pretty compelling I'm trying to map your experiences over mine; and have considered that as I ran them most often with my guild (although certainly not near exclusively) it maybe was just my friends were pretty bad still at the start of wrath

[Deficineiron]

And to give credit thats pretty compelling I'm trying to map your experiences over mine; and have considered that as I ran them most often with my guild (although certainly not near exclusively) it maybe was just my friends were pretty bad still at the start of wrath

slow night here, this post best expressed what I was saying

By Pengwuino on 2009/02/09 at 3:20 AM (Patch 3.0.8)

What I do remember though is that back in BC, if trash wasn't tanked, it'd faceplant clothies immediately. Now, my mage can take on a few heroic trash mobs without dying. Hell my mage can be attacked by raid trash and still survive fairly well for a while. It's silly. I don't remember pulling ponies in Kara and living to tell about it.

[normiegonnanorm]

slow night here, this post best expressed what I was saying

By Pengwuino on 2009/02/09 at 3:20 AM (Patch 3.0.8)

What I do remember though is that back in BC, if trash wasn't tanked, it'd faceplant clothies immediately. Now, my mage can take on a few heroic trash mobs without dying. Hell my mage can be attacked by raid trash and still survive fairly well for a while. It's silly. I don't remember pulling ponies in Kara and living to tell about it.

How dare you insult legion players like this! Do you even know how hard it is to run through corridors?
Do you know how many buttons I press to defeat mythic dungeons AND heroic raiding? FIVE.

[Deficineiron]

How dare you insult legion players like this! Do you even know how hard it is to run through corridors?
Do you know how many buttons I press to defeat mythic dungeons AND heroic raiding? FIVE.

five would be a good number if they can work out porting this to mobile devices, even in altered form. fantasy westward journey did this and apparently was wildly successful.

[Ielenia]

How dare you insult legion players like this! Do you even know how hard it is to run through corridors?

You ran through corridors in vanilla too.

Do you know how many buttons I press to defeat mythic dungeons AND heroic raiding? FIVE.

Then I'm afraid you're not only not playing your class to its full potential, but you're also the guy being carried in such groups.

[Granyala]

Currently playing on a 3.3.5 private server (WotLK) with a few friends.
DAMN leveling was S.L.O.W. and frustrating back then. I spend 80% of my time drinking and walking. (Leveling a priestess)
These distances w/o having a mount... borderline criminal. Makes my kinda feel like a puny weakling for complaining about the lack of flight in Legion.

I honestly question myself how the heck did I get addicted to a game like that. Esp considering that I started in TBC (no mount at 20, even harsher class balancing) *chuckles*

Legion may not be perfect, but Blizzard surely did a lot of stuff right on their way through the expansions.

Infracted

[Deficineiron]

Currently playing on a 3.3.5 private server (WotLK) with a few friends.
DAMN leveling was S.L.O.W. and frustrating back then. I spend 80% of my time drinking and walking. (Leveling a priestess)
These distances w/o having a mount... borderline criminal. Makes my kinda feel like a puny weakling for complaining about the lack of flight in Legion.

I honestly question myself how the heck did I get addicted to a game like that. Esp considering that I started in TBC (no mount at 20, even harsher class balancing) *chuckles*

Legion may not be perfect, but Blizzard surely did a lot of stuff right on their way through the expansions.

by 3.x, leveling had gotten a lot easier due to character power/self-heal increases, greatly reduced xp/level req, (and likely? some outdoor and instance mob dmg nerfs) compared to pre-2.3. by 3.2-3.3, i was able to solo the red quest for spirit weapons in felwood at minimum attain level (wasn't easy but managed it). I want to say the ogres? were still 'elite' at least in name.

[Shammyrock]

Exploring made up for the pacing issues, but 2nd time round it was a drag.

[Granyala]

by 3.x, leveling had gotten a lot easier due to character power/self-heal increases, greatly reduced xp/level req, (and likely? some outdoor and instance mob dmg nerfs) compared to pre-2.3. by 3.2-3.3, i was able to solo the red quest for spirit weapons in felwood at minimum attain level (wasn't easy but managed it). I want to say the ogres? were still 'elite' at least in name.

Yup.
Noticed that in the starting area, when I asked myself "why are them mobs all yellow? :O ".
In TBC, self heal never was much of an issue for me though, since I leveled a priestess (all alts were leveled in tandem with a friend, everything is freeloot then)

Still, it's pretty amazing how much of my free time I basically spent staring at the screen while doing ... nothing.

[Deficineiron]

Yup.
Noticed that in the starting area, when I asked myself "why are them mobs all yellow? :O ".
In TBC, self heal never was much of an issue for me though, since I leveled a priestess (all alts were leveled in tandem with a friend, everything is freeloot then)

Still, it's pretty amazing how much of my free time I basically spent staring at the screen while doing ... nothing.

I put 90% of my game time in during tbc/wotlk, and still am dismayed when I work out the math over 10 years on a per diem basis.

[Deleted]

How dare you insult legion players like this! Do you even know how hard it is to run through corridors?
Do you know how many buttons I press to defeat mythic dungeons AND heroic raiding? FIVE.

To bad that is not only pushing buttons, but i guess that even the easiest mechanics like pre-pul&co require to much brain usage for the vanillafag

Infracted

[Deleted]

No, they didn't. They came with Wrath.

The achievement system came in the 3.0 patch, hence in TBC (last patch before WOTLK).

[Deleted]

7th January it is then ...

[RickJamesLich]

Hence patchwerk with a looser enrage timer.

Again, many guilds weren't able to kill it in time lol, we can go back and forth on this all you want but all of the evidence points in my favor of it being a challenging fight. Do I need to remind you how many players actually killed a boss in Naxx once more?

I cannot take you seriously when you say silly things like that. No progression boss fight gets a phase "trivialized" by Heroism/Bloodlust unless the vast majority of players in the raid both: a) are already experienced in the fight for having already killed it multiple times; and b) greatly overgear the fight.

Nah, blood lust really does just trivialize the most challenging aspects of a fight - usually the phase where the boss is close to death. I can sort of understand why blizz keeps it, it does make things a bit more epic popping it but at the same time the same experience can be given simply by using the other large amount of cooldowns available. Think of it this way - how many times have you ever seen a raid wipe while blood lust was active?

There is a difference between something being "hard" and something being "overtuned". Being "hard" means it is intentionally hard, whereas being "overtuned" means that the difficulty is harder than intended, that it shouldn't be that hard.

Naxx was meant to be *that* hard to the point where just getting there was a challenge.

I sincerely hope you're not going to make the mistake of saying grinding Timbermaw rep was in any way 'hard'? Because it wasn't.

Yet still more challenging than the rep grinds that followed it.

As do the rep grinds... We can say the exact same thing about rep grinds. Besides, just because you don't find it fun, doesn't mean no one else does.

The difference is with rep grinds you can meaningfully advance your character outside of normal PvE content. With achievements you can't really do that. In fact the only thing you get out of them is awful looking mounts. Over the years there's been some good rep grinds and a lot of bad ones mixed in, but with achievements, most of the time it just involves going to do old world contintent that's already been trivialized. Not to mention many of the achievements are dumb because they are things that you would do anyways. Like there's an achievement for doing 10 quests lol.

No, they didn't. They came with Wrath.

Nah, they came out at the end of BC - the very last month in fact, in patch 3.02. Go ahead and check lol. Nobody thinks BC was great because of the achievements either.

Nobody? Really? Nobody at all? Newsflash: the world doesn't revolve around your whims and needs. Besides, achievements were initially added as simply as an accomplishment accolades, but later evolved to be their own content, by asking people to kill certain bosses different ways, oftentimes much harder ways. It motivated people to explore. Etc.

Yeah, you may be the one guy that enjoys the achievement system lol. Most find it uninteresting. If you go into any thread about great moments during BC.... you'll see stuff like Isle of Quel'danas pvp, karazhan, Black Temple, arena... you won't see anyone mentioning achievements.

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oh it is? i would be very oblieged if you show me how mhytic raiders keyboard turn and klick their spells

I'm only speaking from personal experience and the last time I raided on retail was back in MoP during Throne of Thunder, my guild had a lock that was a clicker and the guy was probably top 3 dps (10 man guild). Heroic Lei Shen, I find is a respectable raid boss by most hard core raiders standards, by no means a push over and the clicker guy in our guild didn't hold us back lol.

[Deleted]

Do you know how many buttons I press to defeat mythic dungeons AND heroic raiding? FIVE.

Because in vanilla there was a huge effort on frostbolt spam or shadowbolt spam

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LOOK HOW MANY SKILLS GEORGE IS PRESSING!!! Damn Legion !111




Or look this patchwerk fight, LOOK HOW MANY SKILLZ PRESSED! so many.

[Deleted]

Because in vanilla there was a huge effort on frostbolt spam or shadowbolt spam

Vanilla wasn't a micromanagement game and that was fine for the people the game was intended.

[Deleted]

vanilla wasn't a micromanagement game and that was fine for the people the game was intended.

hahaahahhahaahhahahahahha


Go Tell to my old budds playing warrior dps during naxx, when they where getting this list of buffs pre raid to min max

Elixir of Giants +25 Str
Elixir of the Mongoose +25 Agi / %2 Crit
R.O.I.D.S. +25 Str OR Ground Scorpok Assay +25 Agi (They dont stack)
Smoked Desert Dumplings +20 Str
Scroll of Strength IV +17 Str
Scroll of Agility IV +17 Agi
Winterfall Firewater +35 Ap
2xElemental Sharpening Stone %2 Crit MH / %2 Crit OH
Juju Power +30 Str (Horde only)
Juju Might +40 Ap (Horde only)
Juju Flurry %3 Attack Speed (Horde only)
Fengus' Ferocity +200 Ap (DM buff)
Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer +140 Ap / %5 Crit / %10 Spell Crit (Ony/Neff buff)
Sayge's Dark Fortune of Damage %10 Damage (Dmf buff)
Spirit of Zandalar %15 All Stats / %10 Move Speed (Zg buff)


or go tell people playing on vanilla atm doing MC runs in 30minutes due to massive melee class stacking + wf totem

or go tell people using TheoryCraft addon back in vanilla pff

[Ielenia]

The achievement system came in the 3.0 patch, hence in TBC (last patch before WOTLK).

3.0 is still Wrath of the Lich King. The 'pre-expansion' patch is part of the expansion it precedes.