Nighthold rewards a bit low?

[shonist]

if you are saying ppl are boost from titanforged... it means that nighthold item level will be boosted too... it doesnt matter how many ilvl have ppl now, if the baseline is higher than other raids, pretty much ok. titanforge will do the same on NH.

[Littlepwny]

Although I could get behind a +5 ilvl increase on all difficulties, I think the rewards are relatively fine. I understand that people want the ilvl to be higher but, since WoW has gone the way of war/titanforging, going even higher than that would be "too strong".

However, I really think that LFR (a joke I know) should drop better loot than 850; if they want to have it as a catch up mechanic, I really think that 860/865 ilvl baseline should be LFR's level.

[Cracked]

It's a tough thing for them to balance I imagine. On one hand you want to keep old content relevant by giving players the chance to get a good upgrade by doing said old content. On the other hand you want to make the new content relevant as well. And to do that you need to make the gear high enough ilvl where players will do it a lot initially.

Tough situation for em.

OT: It does seem a bit low. Most of it would be an upgrade for me though. I'm only 873 ilvl.

It's a shitfest they prepared for themselves by pushing this retarded idea of titanforge as high as you want. I don't feel a single bit bad for them.

[Airwaves]

God no. WoW already has a massive issue with scaling and the massive jumps in item level are only adding the to the issue. The gap between a fresh max and a latest tier geared player is going to become insane. They did the item squish to avoid this issue but just went back on it within a few expansion.

[TwoNineMarine]

It's a shitfest they prepared for themselves by pushing this retarded idea of titanforge as high as you want. I don't feel a single bit bad for them.

I don't either. But at the same time I applaud their willingness to try something.

It does work in the sense that I certainly don't mind doing the dungeons over and over. And as someone who doesn't have time to really sit down and raid anymore it works for me. But I see the frustration from a raiders standpoint.

My hope is that they tweak it a bit for the next xpac. The thing I love about this new Blizz is they seem open and willing to try new stuff and if it doesn't work then so be it. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth a shot though.

[weedburst]

gear should just be gear, it should either have sockets or no sockets and when you finally get it you don't need to farm it anymore unless you got it from a lower difficulty. having lfr/n/h/m is too much on top of all the wf/tf/socket nonsense. let the gear be the gear, and allow it to scale with the difficulty level like it always has, nothing more is needed. then they should just remove heroic as a difficulty all together(or normal, or mythic, idc which 1) because it's feels clunky and congested with so many difficulties. lfr is completely pointless but they won't ever remove it, so after lfr there should be a real introductory raid that takes some gear/skill to finish and allows players to see the bosses, and a hard mode that actually challenges competent raiders.

the legendary system also needs to allow players to target their preferred legendary either by choosing the next one they will get whenever they happen to get lucky, or by allowing a trade of 1-2 legendaries they don't want.

finally, they should bring back reforging, it worked well and served a purpose and it would work well with the current gearing system. not everyone loved it, but it definitely allowed you to better tune your character the way you wanted. this mattered more when skill mechanics like snapshotting were in the game, but that's a whole other rant i'd go off into about that, 1 spell from 1 class was broken with it(/wave @ soul swap) so they removed the biggest skill factor for anyone with a dot... shit, i started ranting... oh well.

[Vargur]

Cant you get like up to 880 gear from world quests? maybe higher?

Are you even playing WoW? No, you can't. It's not mathematically impossible to get 885s in a few slots from WQs, with some insane luck that nobody ever has, but without raiding and m+ it's not possible.

[Osmeric]

Fortunately, ToV participation appears to be sucking, so NH gear just has to be better than EN.

[Casagrande]

Heroic rewards from new raid are better than mythic rewards from old raid, and you think this isn't good enough?

[Osmeric]

God no. WoW already has a massive issue with scaling and the massive jumps in item level are only adding the to the issue. The gap between a fresh max and a latest tier geared player is going to become insane. They did the item squish to avoid this issue but just went back on it within a few expansion.

That's not why they did the item squish.

[Vargur]

"Am I even playing WoW" Lol. No need to be such a dick.

I got a 875 shoulders from a world quest, so i'm not entirely sure how high it can go.

I also just looked on google and found a reddit post of a world quest reward at 895. So no, it's not impossible, luck has nothing to do with anything, it's still possible to get that high without raiding lol. Please get your facts straight before coming at me like an angry walrus.

Did you even read past the first sentence I bothered to type?

[Echocho]

That's not why they did the item squish.

No they did the squish because the huge jumps in iLvl were starting to cause problems with high numbers, primarily in regards to boss HP. This way they could continue with the insane jumps for a while longer.

[hulkgor]

Just like ToV drops got bumped, so will Nightholds.

[Ham on Rye]

Yea that does seem low. As someone in mythic raid/+ gear, Im already sitting at 893 ilvl, pretty much making heroic pointless to do unless im hoping for wf/tf. I think Heroic should be atleast 900

Heroic is pointless for you? Then don't do Heroic. You're a Mythic Raider, this is what you wanted, isn't it? A system where you can focus only on the content you want to do instead of the content you need to do?

[Jastall]

I fail to see the problem.

Heroic NH loot can up to be a full 30 base ilvls higher than Heroic EN. That should be the baseline for comparison, and coupled with tiers and trinkets it's a huge power increase, far higher than ToV's.

Comparing Mythic EN/TOV loot to Heroic NH loot is asinine if you ask me. The people who are fully decked out in bis 890+ gear are going to demolish Heroic week 1, then go straight into Mythic where the juicy stuff drops. Like in any raid tier. Heroic isn't meant for them, it's meant for Heroic or casually Mythic raiders who are in 870 to 880 gear right now. Nighthold is gonna hold tons of upgrades for those. Working as intended.

[Nefarious Tea]

It feels like NH was supposed to come out earlier, closer to EN so that it wouldn't be that noticeable.

It was supposed to be out at the same time.

[Raiju]

It was supposed to be out at the same time.

Not really, it was always intended to be similar to MoP/WoD initial gate. They just left it longer.

[Deleted]

Nighthold rewards probably should be much higher, and will probably see a bump.

I fail to see the problem.

Heroic NH loot can up to be a full 30 base ilvls higher than Heroic EN. That should be the baseline for comparison, and coupled with tiers and trinkets it's a huge power increase, far higher than ToV's.

Comparing Mythic EN/TOV loot to Heroic NH loot is asinine if you ask me. The people who are fully decked out in bis 890+ gear are going to demolish Heroic week 1, then go straight into Mythic where the juicy stuff drops. Like in any raid tier. Heroic isn't meant for them, it's meant for Heroic or casually Mythic raiders who are in 870 to 880 gear right now. Nighthold is gonna hold tons of upgrades for those. Working as intended.

http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/xavius-heroic
http://www.wowprogress.com/encounter/helya-heroic

The average ilvl of a guild that now first kills hc Xavius is 872ilvl(boss drops 865) and the average ilvl of a guild that now hc kills Helya is 883(boss drops 880) <-- data taken from latest first kill of those bosses by guilds. Outside of tier bonuses/trinkets, you are very likely to disenchant anything from Nighthold hc at this point, even if you're doing content at the "working as intended" level.

The average mythic raider is not exactly excelling at mythic bosses raid killing unless they're undertuned. The very foundation of wow raiding at a casual level for many years was: ok this boss is very difficult for us at this point, but next week after another farm of lower difficulty(normal/heroic) and current dead bosses(heroic/mythic), we're going to have a better chance.When next week you disenchanted everything, you're pretty much waiting for Blizzard to hotfix 20% nerf or for miracles.

[Moshots]

Tier sets are still huge. so tier+itemization will still make Nighthold gear good. not to mention a half dozen overpowered trinkets of all shapes and sizes. There are a few NH trinkets that 880 will beat 895 versions of EN/Mythic+ trinkets.

[Eapoe]

I feel like we're going to have another ToV situation with the Nighthold rewards. And yes, before you say "TIER TIER TIER!!!!", there are 10+ other item slots to consider.

By the time Nighthold launches, we'd be at least 4 months into Legion, which so far has had the following rewards on offer:
- Normal/Heroic ToV rewards 860-865+/875-880+
- Heroic/Mythic EN rewards 865+/880+
- Weekly Mythic 7-8/10 caches reward 870+/880+ loot

Then we have Nighthold:
- The first 4 NormalHeroic Nighthold bosses drop 870/885
- The next 5 Normal/Heroic Nighthold bosses drop 875/890

Anyone else feel that the Nighthold rewards feel a bit on the low side? Most people that have dabbled into Mythic+ and raiding (just pugging) would surely be in the 860's and close to 870 by now. The upgrades from Nighthold would be very marginal, especially given the 4 months of Titanforged opportunities.

i think that the Nighthold rewards should be bumped up a bit (+5 item levels across the board) to distinguish Nighthold as the premiere destination for upgrades. The last thing we need is another raid undermined by the lackluster rewards overall.

The game has been like this for a long time. Previous mythic raids have always had a higher ilvl than the next normal and most heroic encounters. The only offset and reason most people even run normal-heroic if they are a m+ guild is the chance that a new tier bonus is better than previous, trinkets possibly being better, and learning for mythic encounters. The only reason it feels low is because of a few things, mostly legendary ilvl with the chance of other things being titanforged.