No one can die in Warcraft

[TheVaryag]

Varian says hello.... and Arthas..... and Terenas...... and Garrosh..... and Rhonin..... and MU Gul'dan

Need I go on?

Also if you bothered to read up on lore then you would know why Archimonde didn't die in Hyjal for example. Demons like Archimonde or any demon for that matter can only be killed in the Twisting Nether. Just like Elemental Lords can only be killed in their own plane.

And If you'd bother to follow Blizzard's bizzare and sudden lore-revamps, you'd realize It's silly for them to just make Archimonde and all demons really to be "Immortal" unless they die In the twisting nether, they stole that idea from their own game, from Starcraft. Really we're following a similar storyline In my eyes. Illidan will become some angelic superbeing, redemption and shit and help us kill the baddies... no matter to the fact hes killed THOUSANDS of innocents... he's the Kerrigan of WoW and like Kerrigan he's killed MILLIONS...but that's okay, cause he'll become some angelic superbeing and get redemption... jesus what.

Warcraft 3's story becomes obsolete, our victory against Archimonde was made obsolete when they said In warlords "Archimonde Is baaaack.. and can only be killed In the neeether... and like the idiot demon he is, he sends us to fight him In the one place we can kill him.. loooooool" just what.

And Medivh just "Becoming a legend of the past" and the world "not needing a guardian anymore" has also become obsolete, when they Introduced Med'an, they contradict their own story time and time again, yet you keep defending them. I'm glad they've basically sad Med'an doesn't exist anymore... they just want him to vanish as much as us. And there will be no guardian, Khadgar Isn't going to be the next guardian either, he just has the staff and that's It. That's the end, that's where they should leave It.

That's where they should've left the demons as well, I mean even killing Tichondrious, Dethetoc, Balnazzar, Mal'ganis.. none of that mattered.. they still live, all of them. Even the Dreadlord who allied with Sylvannas whose name I cant recall. And even If you go by the Rogue Class Order hall storyline, the.. certain unnamed demon from that storyline Is still not dead, as he wasn't killed In the nether. And really, he should've died back In Lordaeron 16 years ago, If we go by the timeline.

Please stop defending blizzard's own mess of a story. Kul'tiras Is correct, we get all the characters coming back like It's nothing. Even ILLIDAN should've just been dead, despite the horrible story that surrounded him In TBC, and the non-justified reason we even went there to kill him. Remember them trying to spin that story since Demon Hunters got Introduced? "Oh he was helping Azeroth all along, and we killed him for no reason" at least they're right on one of those points.

I mean the Naaru themselves are telling us "He's the chooosen one... Illidan Stormrage" then why did the NAARU THEMSELVES spearhead the attack on the Black Temple to kill him!? Makes, no, sense. They told us to do It In TBC, and now they tell us we did wrong... YOU TOLD US TO DO SO...

Blizzard has lost themselves In their story, and Instead of explaining It and properly thinking It through years ago, they're trying to connect the story strings now and It's a giant mess.

Another minor thing, the Argent Crusade's purpose was finished once Arthas died, It should've become the Silver Hand In cataclysm already, the Crusade's purpose and formation was due to the threat of the Lich King. And naturally It'd revert to It's previous status, as the re-formed SIlver Hand, with the Argent Dawn having no need for existance anymore, they'd re-join the Silver Hand from which they came from In the first place. Yet they've made the Crusade "fall" only after Tirion died and we took up the Ashbringer.

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

So what if it's silly? It's still how the lore of Demons and the Twisting Nether worked. Lore might be silly but that's how it works just like it does with the Elemental Lords who can only be killed in their respective plane hence why Ragnaros is truly dead for example.

Also where did I ever state I was defending it? Lore since WoD has been a fucking mess. Don't put words in my mouth please. I was merely stating the facts of the lore. When they change it so that Demons and Elemental Lords can be killed for good outside of their plane then let me know. Until then that is how it works.

[SirCowdog]

uhhhh.... where not in a world were at any moment a massive attack force coul attack a city.... guess what places still use walls? airforce based? army bases? oh yeah actual places that could be attacked by a force

And what good are those walls against attack helicopters? Or bombing runs? Or even tanks? A single drone-guided missile could wipe the entire place out.

Those walls are to keep CIVILIANS out, or to simply block line of sight from the ground, not to stop an actual attack. Certainly not to stop any kind of large scale attack. Forts and other reinforced housing could be used as a base of operations for military units, but wouldn't be used as a defensive measure except in a last resort. Mobile forces being able to respond and strike where needed are far more effective.

Now, consider how effective a modern military base would be against dragons, griffons, giant bats, whatever? Then add portals and teleports to bypass said walls or fortifications, or melt them with magic.

Sorry, but in that kind of combat environment, large lengths of defensive walls would quickly become nothing more than a display of wealth. Small, highly reinforced fortresses with magical defenses might still have a purpose. But things like the short log palisades we keep seeing wouldn't even be bothered with. Trench warfare would be more likely. Large, open areas used as killzones for defensive fire from canon or mages. But even that's questionable due to invisibility and teleports.

[FelPlague]

And what good are those walls against attack helicopters? Or bombing runs? Or even tanks? A single drone-guided missile could wipe the entire place out.

Those walls are to keep CIVILIANS out, or to simply block line of sight from the ground, not to stop an actual attack. Certainly not to stop any kind of large scale attack. Forts and other reinforced housing could be used as a base of operations for military units, but wouldn't be used as a defensive measure except in a last resort. Mobile forces being able to respond and strike where needed are far more effective.

Now, consider how effective a modern military base would be against dragons, griffons, giant bats, whatever? Then add portals and teleports to bypass said walls or fortifications, or melt them with magic.

Sorry, but in that kind of combat environment, large lengths of defensive walls would quickly become nothing more than a display of wealth. Small, highly reinforced fortresses with magical defenses might still have a purpose. But things like the short log palisades we keep seeing wouldn't even be bothered with. Trench warfare would be more likely. Large, open areas used as killzones for defensive fire from canon or mages. But even that's questionable due to invisibility and teleports.

because, so lets look at battles in fantasy


ok so i see your new to fantasy, or any means of mass combat ever



lets say an army is attacking a castle

so lets get a army like this








this looks like the average army, pretty cool fight


so this kinda army will have


5000 soilders
100 seige weapons
50 flying creatures


ok so

5100 ground units
50 flying creatures... as these are creatures, they are much harder to control, take care of


now building a wall to hold off those 5100 units must be stupid
because those 50 can ignore it....




but really... its allmost like.... on a planet there is much less creatures that fly, and can be weaponized... then things on the ground that can be weaponized...
and allmost like something that can fly is more erassily taken down

a human loses an arm, they can go on
a plane loses a wing it will fall
a gron is shot in the arm it will stomp on
a dragons wing is ripped open, it will fall




your acting as if "lol i know there is 100x more ground units then air units attacking, but whats the point of building defences based on the ground units if there is 1/100th the air units, cause those few will be abit harder to take out"


im going to bed, cause i... i dont know how to deal with this level of stupidty....


so heres a good example... your playing starcraft,

you hear your enemy is building zerglings, so you plan to build some bunkers with firebats inside of them, blocking off your paths so the zerglins cannot swarm you, well placing a few odd missle turrets, to becareful for the odd few mutalisk
but you see your enemy is building 100 zerglings, and 5 mutalisks...

so instead of being smart and staying with your plan
you now build 2 firebats in no bunkers, and 50 missle turrets to counter the 5 mutalisks...

no you fucking build your defences based around what the majority of your enemy is.... the enemies of the alliance are not majority air units... the horde when stormwind was made, and still to these days, have very few flying units, a majoirty of their forcres are ground units

[SirCowdog]

In both the pictures you linked, you're talking about relatively low fantasy, and low density of magic. Warhammer is mostly normal, everyday people. Sure, there are orcs and undead and magic, but it's often VERY rare. MAYBE a captain of an entire army will have a griffon. Same goes for Lord of the Rings. Magic exists, but at the time of the Lord of the Rings books it's often not very overt. It took Gandalf(one of the Maiar; basically a demigod) to call in the great eagles and he had to burn some serious favors to do so. And only the Nazgul(Sauron's most powerful lieutenants) had flying creatures.

But in Azeroth? Sheesh! You can't walk 5 feet without tripping over a griffon, or a magic weapon, or something. Where even the most primitive cultures have shaman who can call upon the elements to throw lightning or move the earth around. Much less trained battle-mages, priests, paladins, and special forces like the Wildhammer clan of griffon-riders. Or the Dragonmaw clan who ride dragons into battle. Then there's airships, large and small. Every hero and his cousin has powerful magic at their fingertips. And the ones that dont' have magic have freaking tanks and power armor!

You know how the battle of Minas Tirith would have gone down if the orcs had even ONE Azerothian wizard capable of opening portals? The city would have fallen in a matter of days(assuming Gandalf didn't stop him). The Witch King confronts and distracts Gandalf while the Azerothian wizard opens a portal somewhere near the top of the city, and the orcs start pouring through. Game over. Flying beasts not needed.


Any army that DIDN'T employ magic-users would very quickly have their supply lines wrecked, their commanders assassinated or captured, their equipment sabotaged, and their battle-plans spied upon. They wouldn't stand a chance unless they were attacking some place so small that it couldn't possible warrant an army that large to attack in the first place. The only reason you'd use an army of that size with such primitive attacks would be as canon-fodder and as a distraction while the special forces did the real work.

[Raetary]

Uther and Morgraine have came back as ghosts and interacted with us so yea they are technically dead but not totally gone.

you do realize that a ghost is not alive right?

they are dead, they did not return, just because they are ghost does not mean they have returned.


no one can be completely gone in the warcraft universe, if you die your soul moves to the shadowlands.
unless someone shatters your soul.

[Deleted]

you do realize that a ghost is not alive right?

I believe that is what he is pointing out.

[Raetary]

I mean the Naaru themselves are telling us "He's the chooosen one... Illidan Stormrage" then why did the NAARU THEMSELVES spearhead the attack on the Black Temple to kill him!? Makes, no, sense. They told us to do It In TBC, and now they tell us we did wrong... YOU TOLD US TO DO SO...

one naaru is telling us that he is "da choooooosen ooooone!"

not anyone else.

[Redroniksre]

If he hates characters being mentioned or seen again, man he is gonna hate when Anduin reads Varians' note in like 30 in-game years!

[Varitok]

There are major/minor characters before them who are still dead.

Antonidas, Mograine, Uther, Kilrogg (MU), Llane Wrynn and Ogrim Doomhammer for example.

My point is if they do it then I'll happily say I was wrong but well until that time possibly happens they are deceased.

They bring back countless characters. Just because they are dead doesn't mean they stay dead, that's the point.

[Kul Tiras]

You have a some history..... and he did read it.

So what the fuck, do I have to be afraid to post anything on these forums because one of you gestapo lords will bitch about my post history before answering any of my posts?

And then you're the same people who might defend blacks, gays and minorities against prejudices? What's with the fucking hypocrisy indicators these days sitting at critical levels non-stop?

I wrote "No one dies" as a title because no one seems to stay dead. I mean READ BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES. Even if someone dies they can always come back to communicate or perform actions IN SOME FORM, and it doesn't seem that hard to bring them back to life, AS I MENTIONED, AS FAR BACK AS WARCRAFT 3, where you can RESURRECT DEAD HEROES FOR GOLD.

Upon the Altar of the Storms, I will be reborn.

That's a reference as far back as WARCRAFT 2. SHAMAN AREN'T DEMONS BTW.

AND YES, I DID READ THE NEW ALTERNATE LORE BULLSHIT, WANT THE PROOF?



It's always the same shit with you fucking forum lords, just like Darsithis back in WOTLK, I remember that condescending motherfucker just posting asinine one liners for 2 years before they made him/her/it an admin because he was a big enough asshole shutting posters down with passive/aggressive replies based on bullshit like post history and tone of voice.

You people make me sick. You pretend you're so high and mighty but you're SO FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL and lacking actual arguments. If you had any decency you'd apologize but you're way past that. In your mind the more post count you have the bigger your dick and intellect is.

Infracted.

[Aucald]

I am fine with this particular debate, but the aggressive tone needs to die down. Any further flaming in the thread will result in its closure.

[TheFirstOnes]

Alrighty then. Just ignore ALL of our past posts, trying to tell you about the peeps in WOW that are still dead to this day. Also, No one dies in WOW? Uhh, lul? So far, I've only seen 3 guys actually get rezzed in this game:

1. Illidan

2. Archimonde

3. Nalfarian/Onyxia.

I'll spare rag, since his raid was fun enough for me to care.


But other than that. Everyone else is either a ghost, or is just DEAD!

Kil'jaeden is still alive, he was just pushed down a toilet hole. Every warlord from WoD/Legion are alternate versions of themselves. The Avatar of Sargeras was expected to be rezzed. Medivh is a ghost. Some of the artifacts are made of spirits/courpses of past peeps. And, overall, Sylvanas got stripped off her immortality, and did die a few times. We don't call sylvanas "Alive" anymore, we call her an "Undead".

Want me to go on?

[alturic]

I never understood posts like this. Of course no one can "die" in a fictional world. All a write has to do is write them back in. I know, shocking.

[Qualia]

Medivh is a ghost

Medivh is alive and flying around Nether doing something we don't know of (yet). What part of his looks like a ghost? ._."

[Ielenia]

From the wiki on Spirit-Healers:

And the wiki about the Shadowlands:



Apparently this is explained in the book "World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1". It seems retconned to me. But I'm sure the team at Blizzard has a LOT of background already written up. Still, there's no explanation for why the Spirit Healers only rez players instead of NPCs. It's some 4th wall breaking stuff, I'd say. They know the difference between players and NPCs. xD

Or it could just be a game mechanic with a lame explanation.

So it's official. Meh. I hoped it was just a RPG book thing, but it's not. Being an official thing in the lore creates such a big, big hole like why it can't revive NPCs, especially important ones.

I do hope Blizzard retcons that and make it just a purely gameplay thing.

[Raetary]

Medivh is a ghost.

he is not.

he is well and a alive

[TheFirstOnes]

he is not.

he is well and a alive

See, I thought he got decapitated by lothar. But...ok...

But still, you can't deny this: When people die on WOW, MOST of the time, They STAY ded...

[Deleted]

Yep. And Gul'dan. Should have stayed dead imo. But no let's fuck about with Alternate Universe and time travel crap.

AU Gul'dan > MU Gul'dan
I'm actually sad that AU Gul'dan dies

[SirCowdog]

So it's official. Meh. I hoped it was just a RPG book thing, but it's not. Being an official thing in the lore creates such a big, big hole like why it can't revive NPCs, especially important ones.

I do hope Blizzard retcons that and make it just a purely gameplay thing.

Apparently we're much more worthy than characters like voljin, varian, or uther. LOL! "You are the CHOSEN ONE!" /facepalm