The Terrifying Stakes Of Repealing Obamacare Without A Clear Replacement

[Wells]

Trump was a lifelong Democrat who said he would run as a Republican because they would believe anything he said (his words not mine), so a part of me believes all his conservative bluster is just that, and he's going to get conservatives to go all in on his secret liberal agenda.

A) Trump never said that.
B) Trump made donations to Democrats and spoke kindly of Democrats because he's always been desperate to fit in with the New York wealthy and that's what they do.
C) He's always been this weird mix of authoritarian nationalism. His entire world view is shaped by notions of power and humiliation.

[minteK917]

Trump was a lifelong Democrat who said he would run as a Republican because they would believe anything he said (his words not mine), so a part of me believes all his conservative bluster is just that, and he's going to get conservatives to go all in on his secret liberal agenda.

That would be the greatest prank ever pulled on earth.

[Zan15]

No shit Sherlock. But our costs have increased exponentially ever since Obamacare was enacted. And you can't drain the middle class to the point that they themselves become the poor. That will make the system collapse in the long run. Something's gotta give, and continuing down the path that drains society more and more everyday is NOT the answer.

Such BS. the cost curve is down from pre ACA but don't let facts get in the way.

http://kff.org/private-insurance/iss...nefits-survey/


While, on average, small firms have lower family premiums than large firms, the rate of growth has been stable since 2010 (Figure 6). Since 2000, family premiums have increased 155% for small firms, less than the increase of 180% for large firms. Since 2010, average family premiums have grown 25% for small firms, similar to the 28% growth for large firms.


10 year move pre ACA = 15.5% / 18% average per year


2010 to 2015 ACA = 5% / 5.6% average per year.




oh now you will say deductibles......

2006-2010 = 584 to 917 = 57%
2010-2015 = 917 to 1318 = 44%




i could link even more stats if you want on the indivdual market before aca and after but it follows the same trend, slowing down the cost curve.


is it perfect. No. Is it still growing way faster then it should? Yes.
is it growing Exponentially since Obamacare, Nope...its always been growing.

[Wolfheart9]

You realize countries like Canada with single payer still have private clinics. One does not stop the other from existing, its just another American lie.

Oh absolutely, and I'd prefer it to be that way.

Amusingly enough if anyone could get a universal healthcare system through, it WOULD be Trump because half the people already hate him, the other half will eat anything he says up, and he gives two shits about his reputation. The question will be will he use this power for good or not.

[Redwyrm]

Trump was a lifelong Democrat who said he would run as a Republican because they would believe anything he said (his words not mine), so a part of me believes all his conservative bluster is just that, and he's going to get conservatives to go all in on his secret liberal agenda.

His selection of cabinet appointees suggest otherwise.

[Wolfheart9]

Such BS. the cost curve is down from pre ACA but don't let facts get in the way.

http://kff.org/private-insurance/iss...nefits-survey/


While, on average, small firms have lower family premiums than large firms, the rate of growth has been stable since 2010 (Figure 6). Since 2000, family premiums have increased 155% for small firms, less than the increase of 180% for large firms. Since 2010, average family premiums have grown 25% for small firms, similar to the 28% growth for large firms.


10 year move pre ACA = 15.5% / 18% average per year


2010 to 2015 ACA = 5% / 5.6% average per year.




oh now you will say deductibles......

2006-2010 = 584 to 917 = 57%
2010-2015 = 917 to 1318 = 44%




i could link even more stats if you want on the indivdual market before aca and after but it follows the same trend, slowing down the cost curve.


is it perfect. No. Is it still growing way faster then it should? Yes.
is it growing Exponentially since Obamacare, Nope...its always been growing.

It's because the healthcare groups are allowed to raise the prices as much as they want, even if their own costs aren't growing. They know they can do it, so they're pushing it as much as they can, with or without the ACA until there's something in place to make them not do so.

[Shadowferal]

So...he's going to take on the Pharms?

I sincerely wish him good luck on that.

[Zan15]

lol Trump the Socialist.

what shocks me everyday is people who complain about the ACA and the reasons why...

its so sad that they all love medicare, but hate the ACA.
proves people have been hating on the ACA for no other reason then a democrat came up with it, they are sheep following the party line.


they hate it for all the wrong reasons.

[DeadmanWalking]

Sounds sort of like he is wanting to do what Bernie Sanders was talking about when he was trying to get the democrat nomination. Slightly raise taxes on everyone and then the government covers us all with insurance.

Well Republicans won't stand for that shit, Republicans don't like paying taxes on anything but missiles with bigger trucknuts and mega-corporate subsidies.

- - - Updated - - -

Will it be "affordable" insurance for everyone? What he's saying sounds surprisingly like single payer and what Democrats tried to get Republicans on board with years ago.

The problem wasn't that it wasn't a good ideal, the problem was that it was Democrats and Obama who wanted it and Republicans were willing to jam fire up their asses to not let Obama have anything, that way they could call him a 'do nothing president' legitimately. Then they called him a 'do nothing president' while also saying, "Everything he successfully gets enacted is destroying the world!"

[Stormspellz]

If he got republicans to agree to "socialist" healthcare because it is now a republican president pushing for it, I would just die laughing.

The sad thing is his base will gloat over it, even if its exactly the same as the AC

[Wolfheart9]

The sad thing is his base will gloat over it, even if its exactly the same as the AC

My hope is the Dems are smart enough to not try and trash it just because it's put out by a Republican.. would really like the cycle of that to stop. Check it with a fine toothed comb sure, but not say no just because.

[Mahourai]

The joke of the whole debate is that the current healthcare system really pleases both parties because the ACA is a massive, government-mandated giveaway to insurance companies, the same companies lining Congress's pockets and writing their health legislation in the first place. Whatever plan the Republicans implement will likely be extremely similar to the ACA, even though both parties will be happy to pretend otherwise, and the real failures of the ACA and its successor will be completely ignored to talk about worthless metrics like "number of insured citizens".

[KyyaL]

Yeah I am the self centered prick trying to care for my family and my children will people like you leeches take from me and my children. As I said the system is broken.

How fucking dense are you really? He has been paying insurance for 20 years and only got cancer 14 months ago but he'd be dropped from his insurance plan w/o ACA and you're going to call him a leech? So what do you think is going to happen when one of your kids just randomly got cancer? Can I call your kid a "leech" because he's taking resources away from the society even though you probably have been paying insurance for your kid for like 10 years. So you're saying that I'm entirely able to drop your kid because he has cancer? Because that's what you're saying to the other guy. Instead of trying to prevent it to happen to more people. What you're doing is pretty much trying to take a risk because you think it won't happen to you. Or you're saying that you're wealthy enough to cover for your family cancer treatment if that does happen to them.

[KrazyK923]

So what do you guys think?

I think Trump lies about nearly everything he says. And with zero specifics at all, I think it's as likely as him releasing his tax returns at this point.

[Wells]

The trump quote is from a video interview on Oprah in1988. All Internet clips from that interview were either removed from the Internet or edited to remove the quote in 2015. There are many many people who say they saw the clip.

Seems legit to me.

[Wolfheart9]

How fucking dense are you really? He has been paying insurance for 20 years and only got cancer 14 months ago but he'd be dropped from his insurance plan w/o ACA and you're going to call him a leech? So what do you think is going to happen when one of your kids just randomly got cancer? Can I call your kid a "leech" because he's taking resources away from the society even though you probably have been paying insurance for your kid for like 10 years. So you're saying that I'm entirely able to drop your kid because he has cancer? Because that's what you're saying to the other guy. Instead of trying to prevent it to happen to more people. What you're doing is pretty much trying to take a risk because you think it won't happen to you. Or you're saying that you're wealthy enough to cover for your family cancer treatment if that does happen to them.

Try not to get too riled up on ones like them. Most of them are just that five letter word we can't say here, and the others are just not worth the time and their family will suffer from how they think.

[schwarzkopf]

Its certainly not a market model either though.

A true market model fails and/or is inappropriate where there is either
A: No genuine choice on which product to use
B: No genuine choice on IF a product is to be used.

In those situations, a government needs to either regulate, or augment the market system.

The Australian system is a dual market + public system, the public system provides that which one REQUIRES, the free market system adds the bells and whistles and optional parts of the system.

The best of both worlds isn't perfect, but it certainly beats dying in the streets.

[Kuja]

Trumpcare?

[SL1200]

What he says is great and i'm sure he means it, but what are the do nothing Republicans in Congress going to deliver for him? Trump, isn't the problem in my book, it's the republicans in the house and senate that I do not trust with the healthcare.

[Wells]

A true market model fails and/or is inappropriate where there is either
A: No genuine choice on which product to use
B: No genuine choice on IF a product is to be used.

In those situations, a government needs to either regulate, or augment the market system.

The Australian system is a dual market + public system, the public system provides that which one REQUIRES, the free market system adds the bells and whistles and optional parts of the system.

The best of both worlds isn't perfect, but it certainly beats dying in the streets.

I think ultimately what we'll wind up with in the US if we're lucky is basically medicaid/care for everyone, with private insurance remaining for people who prefer that.

Not ideal, but its hard to underestimate America's ability to drag out a shitty situation for as long as possible.