What's the point of flying half a year away from now?

[SirCowdog]

To clarify, I meant there is no appreciable push from "players" since I presume the only point in arguing about flight on mmo-champ is to argue with players.

I agree that Blizzards' intentions are a different ballgame entirely.

There are quite a few people who continuously pop up and claim that flying is the worst thing to ever happen to wow. While I don't think that qualifies as a "appeciable push", when combined with Blizzard's stance on the subject, it's definitely a concern.

This just suggests you are more level headed than others, since I've seen plenty of people frothing at the mouth due to lack of flying, claiming they will unsub because there's no flying, etc.

To be fair, it is within a player's rights to cancel their sub if they feel strongly enough about a portion of the game. I also think that when people say they're cancelling because of No-Flying, they they're often referring to the larger issue of Blizzard's entire approach to the open world. It's not JUST no-flying, but the increased grind and tedium replacing a feeling of freedom and efficiency across the board.

There's also a side helping of feeling like Blizzard will not listen to anything other than a cancelled sub. This is only reinforced by the correlation between dropping subscriptions and the complete 180 on No-flying that happened at the end of WoD. This isn't really within the scope of the discussion, but I do think many players feel like cancelling is the only way to get through to Blizzard.

Coming back to my intent. I'm not arguing whether it trivializes content. I'm coming from a different angle. Instead of arguing why it shouldn't be added or should be delayed or whatever, I'm asking why should it be added or not delayed or whatever.

I'm not talking about why flying is bad, I want to know why flying is so good/necessary that people flip out over it's absence.

Well, largely in part to the fact that players had the entire span of WoW from TBC to MoP to get used to the idea that flying was part of the progression of their character through an expansion. Additionally it provides more options for content design. I've cited a few times that the formula of mixing an expansion's open world content with both flying and no-flying areas adds variety, and allows players seeking different things to be able to enjoy different types of content.

We have dungeons for small group content, raids for large group content, plenty of solo content in the open world. We have lots of different choices for playstyles via classes and specs and gear. We have optional stuff like fishing, crafting, archaeology, and pet battles. There's the choice between pvp or pve servers. Battlegrounds or arena.

And yet for some reason, in this virtual cornucopia of choices for how to play the game, Flying is somehow singled out as something that can not be a player decision?

Seems completely reasonable to me, but I'm sure people will flip out if they have to jump through the same hoops for each toon to get flight.

And in some regards they would be justified. After all, if they've already completed something on a main, what's the purpose(other than personal enjoyment), of forcing them to repeat it on an alt? The game is rife with catch-up mechanics: Herilooms, nerfed difficulty in previous expansion content, paid level 100 characters, DHs that START at 100, etc, etc.

It's a fine balance to strike, but in the case if Flying I think Blizzard is going overboard for very little benefit. To turn your own question back on you: What benefit is there to restricting flying? It allows Blizzard to put the open world on rails, but has the downside of basically telling the players that they're not trusted to make their own decisions. It allows Blizzard to cram more content(and I use that word loosely) into a smaller area. But are smaller areas really better when talking about the larger, open world?

There are LOTS of benefits to Blizzard. But where are the benefits to the players?

For you, it's not a game-breaking problem, which is cool. I do think though, that with all your arguments, there's still sufficient evidence that flying would best be served to be gated behind something or have cooldowns or whatnot. I'd say your middle-ground suggestions are quite reasonable, but previously cited mouth-frothers probably disagree.

I think if you take the time to talk to most Pro-flying players, they'll happily tell you that they're ok with flying being locked behind some form of achievement, preferably some kind of epic quest line that fits it into the lore. What they're not ok with is locking flight behind an arbitrary time gate that has nothing to do with player progression or effort, and has a list of requirements that have nothing to do with flying, and locks flying behind a point where it becomes worthless to have.

[kary]

Flying is, or has been an experiment.
They weren't happy with the results, so things were changed.
Since MoP they have been making attempts to put blocks behind the mechanic, starting with an exorbitant price, then going as far as to put their patch zones as flying disabled areas, then to disabling it outright.
You liken it to heirlooms. Yes, 100-110 heirlooms would be extremely convenient, but why? I and most people like me have an extremely hard time trying to understand why you would want to immediately skip all of the content. And, just like heirlooms, it's locked away from current content till enough time has passed to warrant it's need.
Pathfinding is a compromise; you get flying after enough time has passed to justify the convenience it brings. I've been playing since Vanilla, have 310 achiev mounts back when they were hard to get, and totally agree that flying is a can of worms that never should've been opened, like LFR. Is LFR/flying bad? No, not necessarily, however, it makes people expect things, like expecting to grab the latest raid sets for no effort, or expecting to fly over the entirety of the game world.

[Xiomar]

whats the point of flying anyways?

Whats the point of doing anything?

Fun. Its as simple as that. I find flying fun. When I first started WoW in BC, the lightbulb moment where I knew I would play this game for a long time, happened when I first became able to fly. I had never encountered a game where you could just fly around, doing whatever you wanted. I was instantly hooked and 9 years later I am still here playing everyday. WoD and Legion have really disappointed me. I have a large collection of mounts, a large amount of them designed to fly. So a large portion of my mounts I can't use as they look silly imo running along the ground. Some may say we have pathfinder and will eventually fly. I'm not born yesterday, like in WoD, by the time we get flight we won't get time to use it much as most of the content will be pretty much done over. I guarantee Argus will be a no flight zone as will the Island with Sargeras's Tomb. Pathfinder also reflects that a lot of people want flight or why do they do the requirements? This expansion will pretty much make or break my 9 year addiction to this game and while flight will not be the whole reason, it will play a significant role in what happens regarding me and WoW.

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I and most people like me have an extremely hard time trying to understand why you would want to immediately skip all of the content.

We don't want flying to skip the content. We want flying to be a part of the content. We want to fly while we do the content as we have done for 8 years since BC to WoD.

[Deepfreeze]

The whole thing about flying is bullshit anyways. They just want everything to take longer for you to do so that you pay your subscription fee for a longer amount of time.

This so much!

[kary]

Whats the point of doing anything?

Fun. Its as simple as that. I find flying fun. When I first started WoW in BC, the lightbulb moment where I knew I would play this game for a long time, happened when I first became able to fly. I had never encountered a game where you could just fly around, doing whatever you wanted. I was instantly hooked and 9 years later I am still here playing everyday. WoD and Legion have really disappointed me. I have a large collection of mounts, a large amount of them designed to fly. So a large portion of my mounts I can't use as they look silly imo running along the ground. Some may say we have pathfinder and will eventually fly. I'm not born yesterday, like in WoD, by the time we get flight we won't get time to use it much as most of the content will be pretty much done over. I guarantee Argus will be a no flight zone as will the Island with Sargeras's Tomb. Pathfinder also reflects that a lot of people want flight or why do they do the requirements? This expansion will pretty much make or break my 9 year addiction to this game and while flight will not be the whole reason, it will play a significant role in what happens regarding me and WoW.

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We don't want flying to skip the content. We want flying to be a part of the content. We want to fly while we do the content as we have done for 8 years since BC to WoD.

But flying while you do the content makes 90% of the content irrelevant.
Which is why it was removed.
Which is why i said "but muh entitlement"
Which is why every post leveling area since cata has been no flight.

Flying is "fun" but the convenience that it brings invalidates most of the content.
I'm gonna get another response saying "but iz fun" anyway

[Xiomar]

But flying while you do the content makes 90% of the content irrelevant.
Which is why it was removed.
Which is why i said "but muh entitlement"
Which is why every post leveling area since cata has been no flight.

Flying is "fun" but the convenience that it brings invalidates most of the content.
I'm gonna get another response saying "but iz fun" anyway

What a load of bs... are you trying to tell me that 90% of the content I played over the 8 years from BC to WoD was irrelevant. Please. What a joke.

[kary]

What a load of bs... are you trying to tell me that 90% of the content I played over the 8 years from BC to WoD was irrelevant. Please. What a joke.

You don't have any semblance of reading comprehension. reread and try again.

[Chaelexi]

What he is saying is that flying trivializes content therefore making it irrelevant after flying is available. Honestly the system they put in place is great flight masters whistle gets you from place to place(usually faster than flying), there is a great network of flight paths. There is a portal network in Suramar and many classes have additional flight points, portals or warrior leaps to locations as well as the ability to glider from the top of high mountain to get almost anywhere on the map.

[Deleted]

What he is saying is that flying trivializes content therefore making it irrelevant after flying is available. Honestly the system they put in place is great flight masters whistle gets you from place to place(usually faster than flying), there is a great network of flight paths. There is a portal network in Suramar and many classes have additional flight points, portals or warrior leaps to locations as well as the ability to glider from the top of high mountain to get almost anywhere on the map.

And those features don't?

You can't say flying makes content available then praise features that essentially do the same but worst

[Chaelexi]

And those features don't?

You can't say flying makes content available then praise features that essentially do the same but worst

No because flying has all the other issues that it caused, PVP and fly away(the dive bomb gank), lack of actually seeing content and participating in it(Suramar city being a prime one, if you could fly you would drop in and pop out until the mob spawned, currently you have to plan where you go and watch for patrols). If anything this has been the most fun expansion due to no flying because you actually see people doing things, you group up for world quests and once in a while talk to someone in a social game. These are all things that flying has destroyed due to the nature of instant gratification world that we live in that the lack of flying has somewhat brought back and wish flying was not coming till 7.3 honestly when the expansion is wrapping up and it will not trivialize what is there(hope there is a huge rep grind that is slow)

[Elim Garak]

No because flying has all the other issues that it caused,

There are no issues with flying.

PVP and fly away(the dive bomb gank),

Same as run up gank

lack of actually seeing content and participating in it

Nonsense, with flying you participate in more content due to accessibility. Suramar is a prime example. Without flying you only go where you need to go in the easiest way possible.

(Suramar city being a prime one, if you could fly you would drop in and pop out until the mob spawned, currently you have to plan where you go and watch for patrols).

You don't have to plan a thing, unless by plan you mean: if the going gets tough - run away and drop aggro or kill everything.

If anything this has been the most fun expansion due to no flying because you actually see people doing things, you group up for world quests and once in a while talk to someone in a social game.

as if with flying people won't do shit and quests will just auto-complete themselves on login.

These are all things that flying has destroyed

Such as?

[Chaelexi]

There are no issues with flying.

No use talking to you as you have already made your point that you are not willing to see another side and you are only right. Difference between me and you is that I see there are advantages that flying brings but they do not out weigh the disadvantages they bring. That is why blizzard has designed the flying late in the expansion but hey you must be right because there is only black and white. So please exit stage right if you are so narrow minded that it is this way or no way.

[rda]

No use talking to you as you have already made your point that you are not willing to see another side and you are only right. Difference between me and you is that I see there are advantages that flying brings but they do not out weigh the disadvantages they bring. That is why blizzard has designed the flying late in the expansion but hey you must be right because there is only black and white. So please exit stage right if you are so narrow minded that it is this way or no way.

What are the disadvantages? Do you mean the "since flying is there, I will use it even though I enjoy going by ground more"? Isn't that a bit rich to take flying away from those who don't have that particular issue just because you happen to have it?

[Deleted]

No because flying has all the other issues that it caused, PVP and fly away(the dive bomb gank), lack of actually seeing content and participating in it(Suramar city being a prime one, if you could fly you would drop in and pop out until the mob spawned, currently you have to plan where you go and watch for patrols). If anything this has been the most fun expansion due to no flying because you actually see people doing things, you group up for world quests and once in a while talk to someone in a social game. These are all things that flying has destroyed due to the nature of instant gratification world that we live in that the lack of flying has somewhat brought back and wish flying was not coming till 7.3 honestly when the expansion is wrapping up and it will not trivialize what is there(hope there is a huge rep grind that is slow)

Utter BS

As it is now people just Whistle and FP with no travelling whatsoever inbetween. Surarmar is a prime example of why flying would be good! Currently we just travel via portals and run whilst ignoring the city. Surarmar and all Legion zones look more beautiful from the sky. I would rather fly and experience the art than teleport everywhere which is currently happening. 7.2 is guaranteed to increase numbers because of flying

[Elim Garak]

No use talking to you as you have already made your point that you are not willing to see another side

I saw the other side - it sucked.

[Zephire]

you wanna make the game more shitty ?

No, I don't. That's why I said that. I think the game would be better for it! It's very subjective though so every one to their own I guess

[Deleted]

Utter BS

As it is now people just Whistle and FP with no travelling whatsoever inbetween. Surarmar is a prime example of why flying would be good! Currently we just travel via portals and run whilst ignoring the city. Surarmar and all Legion zones look more beautiful from the sky. I would rather fly and experience the art than teleport everywhere which is currently happening. 7.2 is guaranteed to increase numbers because of flying

Exactly. My WQ experience is greatly disconnected except in the rare cases where I just travel from one WQ to another which lie in neighbouring areas when I don't care about the reward of the WQ but only about finishing the emissary ASAP. And if I have to travel a bit longer, then it's always whistle-hopping or teleports. On some occasions I use the toy combination (winds+glider), but only if not on CD. These are almost exclusively arriving in Val'sharah or Stormheim via TP network on my mage and then going to a warden PvP quest with the aim to land on the balcony of the tower and engage the boss before clearing the mobs.

Honestly, travel is a PITA in WoW as soon as you reach max level repetitive content, if you don't have flight. And stay away with your PvP bullshit, I play on a PvE server. The occasions when world PvP happens in PvP WQ areas are very rare and negligable.

[RyanEX]

Right now they need to release content that revolves around flying. TBC had the daily quest zone for the dragon mount, and Wrath had Icecrown and Storm Peaks, for which flying was mandatory. People have gotten too used to flying as a crutch which is what leads to the endless whining about when is flying to be re-implemented.

There is no zone released currently where flying is a must. People just want to be able to avoid content that they view as pointless. Suramar is a prime example of this as most would rather bitch and moan about the city's layout, rather than learn it. And I can guarantee that at least 90% of those crying over flying will most likely just afk in flight over some area rather than use it for something useful.

[Mic_128]

Right now they need to release content that revolves around flying. TBC had the daily quest zone for the dragon mount, and Wrath had Icecrown and Storm Peaks, for which flying was mandatory. People have gotten too used to flying as a crutch which is what leads to the endless whining about when is flying to be re-implemented.

There is no zone released currently where flying is a must. People just want to be able to avoid content that they view as pointless. Suramar is a prime example of this as most would rather bitch and moan about the city's layout, rather than learn it. And I can guarantee that at least 90% of those crying over flying will most likely just afk in flight over some area rather than use it for something useful.

So have Suramar have an "anti-flight shell" or something around it to stop flight in the city, but allow it everywhere else.

[makketota]

The whole thing about flying is bullshit anyways. They just want everything to take longer for you to do so that you pay your subscription fee for a longer amount of time.

This argument is so shit. Sure, why dont we just get world quest rewards in the mail daily instead of it beeing artifically gated behind completing objectives ?