Leaving Key Runs should give lockouts

[schwarzkopf]

I feel like that would lead to abuse.

You could just kick someone and replace said person with a better person later.

Sure - if you want the time penalty, if they are that bad.... but that's no different to a normal Mythic, Heroic or Normal dungeon or raid run is it ?

[Taeldorian]

Sure - if you want the time penalty, if they are that bad.... but that's no different to a normal Mythic, Heroic or Normal dungeon or raid run is it ?

No but there's no point to exploit those runs. They don't give the good rewards that mythic+ does. You'll see exploitation very often in mythic+ with that system since that's where the rewards are at. That's what people are running.

Not only that, but normal, heroic and mythic runs do have that exact problem and it's annoying. You can que into a guild group or friend group and get kicked because they either want to invite someone else or just don't want you there.

It's happened to me when I qued for a random heroic. Got a guild group and they removed me for one of their mates who came online.

That problem doesn't need to be moved to mythic+. Just leave it how it is and don't implement an imperfect system that will cause even more issues.

[schwarzkopf]

No but there's no point to exploit those runs. They don't give the good rewards that mythic+ does. You'll see exploitation very often in mythic+ with that system since that's where the rewards are at. That's what people are running.

The primary reward of M+ is the timer... since the cache nerfs, it is a very inefficient way to gear up people compared to a single run through heroic raids.

As I mentioned, it is just a suggestion - but as I also said, I don't really see any clear way of solving the issue, just ways that are really bad, and ways that are just ok.

[Daffan]

Some people are just so bad that you have to leave for your own sanity. If your a healer, this is so much more common.

[WowIsDead64]

You asked for social interaction without any automated tools? You've got it! Now deal with it.

[Deleted]

In over 150 runs I have only once had someone leave a run and have myself only abandoned one run.

The run I abandoned was a VotW 12 I joined. It was a complete mess. It was advertised as DHt 12, but turned out to be VoTW. So no problem, fly to another instance. The heal was afk and needed almost 15 minutes to be able to get ported.

When we started the instance we almost wiped to the very first trash group, and then we wiped to the first mini-boss. Instead of regrouping and doing him again, people released and run back, one by one, only to be slaughtered again and again, with no hope of ever getting the mob done (it still had 60% HP).

There was no way the run would go smoothly in any way. It was not advertises as "only for weekly", so its a reasonable expectiation that it would be an on-time run. The way the instance started it looked more like an 2h+ run. I wasn't in for that, so i left and looked for another group.

I do not see how that was bad. The group was bad. I shouldn't be punished for hem not being on par for what they offered.

[Doffen]

I agree with the OP, but to punish the criminal(the leaver) might not be the way to go. The real issue is for those whos left with a "broken" key. But there is hard to come up with a solution wich can't be abused or fixed with. And thats why blizz hasn't done anything yet I suppose(it was a blue post somewhere)

It's like when you are five people going out. One of the five suddenly shoots a guy and runs away. And the other 4 gets the blame and gets the punishment (great example imo)

What to do? Do it the old way, deserter. Like someone said, start with 1 hour, then expand it if that person leaves often. Can't do better than that I'm afraid. For the group, give em time to get a replacement, that you have to start all over is kind of silly. If the other 4 isn't so good that they 4man that 10-12.

Whatever solution, it will be both cons and pros.

[judgementofantonidas]

So this happens way to often for my liking, anyone else agree that people who leave key runs after 1 wipe should be locked from key runs for the rest of the week? Only the holder of the key should be able to leave without getting a desserter tag. Ive also had friends who have had people leave for no reason whatsoever just after pulling.

have to say that i agree with you. the only way to not get some hefty debuff should be if the time is expended.

[clevin]

That solution would significantly and unnecessarily punish people who have poor connections.

People doing keystone runs when they know that they have a connection poor enough that it drops a lot are punishing the people whose groups they join. They KNOW they're joining a timed run where people want to make the timer and that DCs will hurt the group and waste a non-renewable resource. Maybe they should not be doing such runs with PUGs when they have a crappy connection.

It is too broad to be effective for the sheer range of players that the system must accommodate, and it still would allow calculated abuse of the system.

Nothing's perfect. This is a non-argument... it's the old "We can't devise something perfect, let's not do anything".

Honestly the best solutions I've seen so far is schwarzkopf's, it addresses the key problem of losing a player (for whatever reason) while having a buffer in place to prevent abuse. It is a significant improvement from simply having your run entirely ruined by 1 player.

Yes, their system is good too. 5 minutes, though, might not be enough esp when looking for a player who can reasonably come in to a high level keystone.

My main point here is that we didnt define the problem to start which, to me, is punishing the people who leave repeatedly. Schwarzkopf's helps the group in a given situation but does nothing to deter serial leavers. OTOH, if we had access to Blizzard's data, we might see that there are so few serial/frequent leavers that there's no real problem.

[Deleted]

I haven't had anyone leave any of my runs after the second week of the expac. If you are seeing this often you should form your groups more carefully or find a guild.

Just because you're not doesn't mean it can't happen. I'm very selective with my groups and I've seen it happen multiple times, sometimes after a wipe, sometimes for no apparent reason.

[Deleted]

As well as the fake DC, by giving them an X amount of minutes to return, or they would get the debuff as well.

And there everything of your silly ideas fall apart! how do you decide if a dc was software, isp or human problem?
you CANT.

M+ isnt meant to be pugged - if you do it - bare the consequences.

[Lochton]

And there everything of your silly ideas fall apart! how do you decide if a dc was software, isp or human problem?
you CANT.

M+ isnt meant to be pugged - if you do it - bare the consequences.

Reason, bare the consequences if you cannot complete either, but leaving. Sorry, life has to be even on both sides.

As for my view, that is why you have X amount of minutes. In the end, it is still the player's fault if connection/software of own or human problem - just like if a dungeon.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Nothing's perfect. This is a non-argument... it's the old "We can't devise something perfect, let's not do anything".

No, it is "This solution is very bad, lets find a better one rather than implement a poor solution".