Trump's immigration ban denied

[javen]

So wait, the Senate can overturn Trump's adviser's overturns of the Judge overturn of the Trump EO...

I... I need some Tylenol.

no one in the executive has the authority to legally overturn a stay, so the buck kind of stops there. Their only options are to abide by it, or ignore it, with the latter being considered obstruction of justice.

[Shadowferal]

So wait, the Senate can overturn Trump's adviser's overturns of the Judge overturn of the Trump EO...

I... I need some Tylenol.

Congress, aka the Legislative Branch of government comprises the House of Representatives, and the US Senate...and in charge of making law.

[javen]

Post-inauguration is always kind of a weird time, because it's when incoming presidents do most of their Executive Order signing.

An important thing to note is that EOs aren't laws. They're declarations made by the President to order the resources at his disposal to enforce certain laws that are already on the books. For example: Obama on day 1 signed an EO to close Guantanamo, so while it was legal for us to have that facility, it's also within his legal rights to close it down. What was NOT within his legal power to do via EO was to decide what would happen to the detainees afterwards, which is why nothing ever came of it.

So when Trump signs an EO that is against currently existing law, a stay can be ordered by the courts, and the executive can't really contest that legally aside from either A) asking congress to pass a law making it legal, or B) having that earlier judicial ruling overwritten by a higher court.

[TITAN308]

When the executive branch ignores the judicial branch, that really should be grounds for impeachment.

How did Donald Trump directly himself ignore the judges in NYC? This is the action of the local ground agents and their bosses?

[Draco-Onis]

How did Donald Trump directly himself ignore the judges in NYC? This is the action of the local ground agents and their bosses?

The consensus seems to be that this executive order was badly written and not vetted properly causing chaos and confusion. The local agents on the ground seem to be at a loss on how to implement it properly.

[Crissi]

How did Donald Trump directly himself ignore the judges in NYC? This is the action of the local ground agents and their bosses?

Would help if Trump said to comply with the order instead of, ya know, digging in his heals (be defending his EO) and not saying anything about Green cards and visa holders. Pribus already said green cards should be vetted too.

[TITAN308]

The consensus seems to be that this executive order was badly written and not vetted properly causing chaos and confusion. The local agents on the ground seem to be at a loss on how to implement it properly.

And I wont' dispute that, but all this talk about Trump directly violating the NYC judge orders seems unfounded if not outright silly.

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Would help if Trump said to comply with the order instead of, ya know, digging in his heals (be defending his EO) and not saying anything about Green cards and visa holders. Pribus already said green cards should be vetted too.

Is it uncommon for a president to issue something then the ultimate battle over it comes in the courts? Seems business as usual?

[javen]

How did Donald Trump directly himself ignore the judges in NYC? This is the action of the local ground agents and their bosses?

The President can't order something that's against the law. If Trump does not rescind the order, or orders his agents to ignore it, he can legally be held liable, same as if say, a police chief orders his officers to engage in brutality can be held criminally liable for giving the order.

[Crissi]

And I wont' dispute that, but all this talk about Trump directly violating the NYC judge orders seems unfounded if not outright silly.

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Is it uncommon for a president to issue something then the ultimate battle over it comes in the courts? Seems business as usual?

Normally the President complies while he fights with the courts, unless the court suspends their ruling while they consider it.

[TITAN308]

If Trump does not rescind the order, or orders his agents to ignore it, he can legally be held liable, same as if say, a police chief orders his officers to engage in brutality can be held criminally liable for giving the order.

The people ignoring the judges orders are not agents of Trump? They are agents of their perspective departments?

Still sounds like the onus falls to the big wigs of that local department.

Also the courts in NYC aren't like SCOTUS.

[Crissi]

The people ignoring the judges orders are not agents of Trump?

Trump is already defending his EO instead of admitting his fuckup. Thats about a close a FU to the judicial branch as you're gonna get.

[TITAN308]

Trump is already defending his EO instead of admitting his fuckup. Thats about a close a FU to the judicial branch as you're gonna get.

Ok, no argument, but is he under any legal obligation to alter the EO based on a NYC ruling?

Try and understand I am not disputing Lord Douche Flute's lack of planning.

[javen]

The people ignoring the judges orders are not agents of Trump?

Yes, they are. CBP and DHS are considered public servants in service of the executive branch, just as the U.S Marshals are in service of the judiciary.

EDIT: And in regards to your edit, federal judges have jurisdiction over federal laws. Just because a judges ruling can be contested in a higher court, does not impact the the validity of the courts ruling until that time.

[Crissi]

Ok, no argument, but is he under any legal obligation to alter the EO based on a NYC ruling?

Try and understand I am not disputing Lord Douche Flute's lack of planning.

Alter it? Not until there's an official ruling. Comply with the court while he fights it? yes.

Much like how Texas couldnt impliment their voter ID or aboriton laws while fighting for it while the court suspended those laws while considering them.

[TITAN308]

Alter it? Not until there's an official ruling. Comply with the court while he fights it? yes.

Hey fair enough.

Would this ruling only apply to NYC?

[Crissi]

Hey fair enough.

Would this ruling only apply to NYC?

Federal judge so I suspect its nationwide. Although I suspect thats part of the fight thats gonna go on

[TITAN308]

I mean just a quick cruise of Google shows previous presidents executing EO orders and have ignored rulings issued by similar judges.

I'm not totally convinced this is something unique to Trump's presidency.

[ranzino]

Uhh, giving reasons for impeachment while the ink on his inauguration adress is not even dry is precious. Does nobody with more brain activity than a dead amoeba advise him ?

[Crissi]

I mean just a quick cruise of Google shows previous presidents executing EO orders and have ignored rulings issued by similar judges.

I'm not totally convinced this is something unique to Trump's presidency.

It isnt, but I dont think that makes it ok either. If states cant do it, the President shouldnt either.

Where those rulings suspended while they were considered? Thats the only way to legally go through with an EO being considered by the courts.

[Jtbrig7390]

I mean just a quick cruise of Google shows previous presidents executing EO orders and have ignored rulings issued by similar judges.

I'm not totally convinced this is something unique to Trump's presidency.

I take back my original statement.