Is it Time to Change the 14 Amendment?

[Katchii]

Anchor babies may be American citizens but in many situations, and I'd wager the majority, their parents are not. This means that the children get the benefit of American taxpayer dollars such as education when there parents don't pay a cent. I don't mind that they're here, I mind that their parents aren't contributing via taxes like the rest of the legal US citizen.

Personally, I just wish they'd streamline the citizenship process so we could get taxes from the anchor baby parents. Changing the 14th amendment isn't the right answer, IMO.

[Demona3]

Unless you've served you REALLY shouldn't be using the "think about the veterans!" line. It's 2017's "Think of the children!" and is every bit as exploitive and see-through as that old tag line was.

You'll counter by saying "I don't have to serve to care about veterans/my dad's best friend's ex son in law served therefore I carez" but let's be honest, you aren't running down to colunteer at the VA or build affordable housing for vets. You ARE supporting a President who will be the first in US history to appoint a head of the VA who has never served, however.

Regardless of whether your concern for vets is genuine or (far more likely) just a patriotic wank-off, the reality is that the budget allocated for veteran housing, health, and vocational programs is completely independent of welfare funding. Welfare does not begin to cover the costs for having children, and the children of undocumented immigrants are US citizens who a) are taxed, b) contribute more to the economy than they take, and c) are the fatstest growing group of military recruits. So those same children you're throwing shade at? Yeah, many of them grow up to be veterans too. CONUNDRUUM!

I have served, for 17 years mind you. I have sustained an injury. My saving grace is I'm married to a very loving husband. I have volunteered, more times than I care to count. As far as your comment goes, yes, my father did serve, and his father before him. We are a military family. I lost my brother a few years ago as he served.

Regardless of what insult you would like to throw at me, I have served, I have done my time....and I continue to give and support.

The system is beyond flawed and needs major work. If you think the current programs in place for our veterans is amazing, you are horribly wrong. Remember the fiasco a few years ago where vets were dying because of the wait lists at the VA hospitals? Yeah, that's STILL going on. But amazingly, an illegal immigrant can jump over the border, go to the first hospital they see, have a baby, get a hospital room, food, free diapers, formula, etc., and not have to pay shit for it. And when they leave, they still get the benefits.

So are you saying you are proud we are footing the bill for them, but ashamed we are allowing our vets to die while waiting to be seen?

Regardless, like everyone else here - you're absolutely right, and I'm absolutely wrong, and everyone else's opinions are wrong too.

[Eliseus]

Honestly, if all benefits were taken away from illegal immigrants, they would head back for the border. Meaning, they would have to prove they are a citizen before they can claim any sort of tax-payer money, regardless if they have children or not born on US soil.

Bash me if you like, but I feel like we should be taking care of our veterans first, especially if they are homeless, before any illegal immigrant. Our system is incredibly flawed.

Not just vets, we should be taking care of people in our country before anything else to begin with. This doesn't mean we should cut off immigration practices etc... But when it comes to the financial success of a US citizen and not a citizen, it's pretty screwed up to worry about the other people first. I'm willing to bet if every liberal had their welfare cut off to support illegal immigrants instead, they wouldn't be so pro-illegal immigration anymore.

[Demona3]

Not just vets, we should be taking care of people in our country before anything else to begin with. This doesn't mean we should cut off immigration practices etc... But when it comes to the financial success of a US citizen and not a citizen, it's pretty screwed up to worry about the other people first. I'm willing to bet if every liberal had their welfare cut off to support illegal immigrants instead, they wouldn't be so pro-illegal immigration anymore.

You totally hit the nail on the head.

[starlord]

Not just vets, we should be taking care of people in our country before anything else to begin with. This doesn't mean we should cut off immigration practices etc... But when it comes to the financial success of a US citizen and not a citizen, it's pretty screwed up to worry about the other people first. I'm willing to bet if every liberal had their welfare cut off to support illegal immigrants instead, they wouldn't be so pro-illegal immigration anymore.

i didnt realize it was a choice between only those 2 things, my god what have we done?

[Eliseus]

i didnt realize it was a choice between only those 2 things, my god what have we done?

It should be a choice between those two things when it comes to giving money to outside resources when it comes to the financial support of a US citizen. A charity can do w/e they want, but the GOVERNMENT shouldn't be doing this.

[starlord]

It should be a choice between those two things when it comes to giving money to outside resources when it comes to the financial support of a US citizen. A charity can do w/e they want, but the GOVERNMENT shouldn't be doing this.

you do realize that the dems are for both, and the repubs are against both?
its not either/or because the difference is miniscule. add to that, children of illegals will be required to be taken care of by the state in any case if they are seperated from their parents.

[Shadowferal]

Not just vets, we should be taking care of people in our country before anything else to begin with.

If the GOP gave a shit about taking care of our own at all then Medicare would be a civil right for every American citizen regardless of age

[Cyberowl]

He was neither good nor conservative..good god the money he spent on nothing, how that translates to "conservative" boggles the mind. (How's that "star wars" defense thing going? o..it went nowhere)

Well, that's the point. It is not an argument, but you shouldn't bring it up on 2nd amendment rights as one and dismiss it on 14th amendment rights.

[Eliseus]

If the GOP gave a shit about taking care of our own at all then Medicare would be a civil right for every American citizen regardless of age

The GOP doesn't care about anyone? IRS says republicans are more charitable than democrats. But okay, republicans hate everyone. Republicans hate the willing mooching, not the unwilling or unable.

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you do realize that the dems are for both, and the repubs are against both?
its not either/or because the difference is miniscule. add to that, children of illegals will be required to be taken care of by the state in any case if they are seperated from their parents.

You do realize this is completely wrong right? However, it has nothing to do with what I believe it should be, and what it actually currently is.

[purebalance]

WIC, Welfare, CHIP, Medicaid, TANF, the list goes on. How much more do you want?

And YES, the act of being an American (in the case we are talking about, a baby) with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT parents IS abusive to the rest of us, the American tax-payer. Regardless if you want to don't want to think of this as a loophole in the system, sadly, it is. This is an amendment that is being horribly abused and we are having to foot the bill for it.

Why are you debating his strawman? "There are no programs they can use" "Yes such as xXXX" "XXX aren't programs" and then you waste your time debating that yes welfare itself is not a program and that it's called CHIP or WIC etc.

[nanook12]

Lol the pro-illegal immigration peoples argument in this thread amounts to "forget the facts that immigrants negatively impact Americans economically. Where is your empathy, where is your feels because that is what really matters!"

Get outa here with that weak ass shit.

[Demona3]

Why are you debating his strawman? "There are no programs they can use" "Yes such as xXXX" "XXX aren't programs" and then you waste your time debating that yes welfare itself is not a program and that it's called CHIP or WIC etc.

Yeah, I stopped responding to him a while back.

[Celista]

No.

Two illegal immigrants can violate our border laws, then crank out children and exploit them for welfare. Which they often do because they cannot survive on their rock bottom wages. The American tax payer takes up the slack.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for public benefits because they are not citizens. They do not have a social security card.

By your logic, we should prohibit poor people from breeding.

Honestly, if all benefits were taken away from illegal immigrants, they would head back for the border. Meaning, they would have to prove they are a citizen before they can claim any sort of tax-payer money, regardless if they have children or not born on US soil.

Bash me if you like, but I feel like we should be taking care of our veterans first, especially if they are homeless, before any illegal immigrant. Our system is incredibly flawed.

They don't get benefits. Stop getting your news from Fox News and Breitbart.

If you don't believe me, look it up yourself.

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Lol the pro-illegal immigration peoples argument in this thread amounts to "forget the facts that immigrants negatively impact Americans economically

Illegal immigrants are an economic boon to this country. We treat them like a slave labor class, paid under the table with no benefits and are not eligible for any sort of public welfare. That is why past Republican presidents like George W. Bush were pro-immigration. It is unethical to have our economy reliant on illegal immigration but them's the facts.

I bet you don't understand one iota of economics and can't explain to me why you think illegal immigration is bad for this country. Because everything you post is just garbage repeated verbatim from right-wing news sites.

[Delana]

it's worth mentioning also that there's a pretty decent body of research arguing that immigrants are tax-positive immediately; for the most part they pay the taxes and fees people doing their jobs would pay anyway (payroll, sales, other consumption taxes), and are excluded from many of the benefits (social security, medicaid, etc.)

and again, the people receiving services such as CHIP actually are american citizens

Do they pay to support the American worker that they displace? Oh, of course not. The American taxpayer has to do that.

If labor was scarce, I'd be entirely on board with you. Labor isn't scarce at this time in history. In fact, labor is so abundant that the birth rates are falling in the west to compensate. Yet we fuck up the whole situation with open borders.

[Phookah]

Nope, they can't "exploit" welfare. Anyone who's ever actually had to receive welfare would know this, given how much documentation you have to provide which you know, is kinda hard to do when you're illegal. But by all means, believe whatever you want, I'm not the one who looks stupid. /shrug

[asadawa]

Honestly, if all benefits were taken away from illegal immigrants, they would head back for the border. Meaning, they would have to prove they are a citizen before they can claim any sort of tax-payer money, regardless if they have children or not born on US soil.

Bash me if you like, but I feel like we should be taking care of our veterans first, especially if they are homeless, before any illegal immigrant. Our system is incredibly flawed.

Your understanding of the system is incredibly flawed. The vast majority of them aren't just earning welfare, and most actually pay taxes without receiving most of the benefits of those taxes.

The problem you should be focusing on is the government funneling all money into the hands of the rich and corporations rather than the people. They defund core values such as education to pay for tax cuts for the wealthiest people in America who use that money to create jobs in other countries.

[Phookah]

Meanwhile the same people crying about taxes going to actually help people are the same ones who don't give a shit about the literal billions in government waste that could disappear tomorrow.

[Gorgodeus]

Welfare, healthcare, free school lunch for their kids, government grants for their kids to attend college, etc. Anchor babies take away a lot of opportunities for American citizens.

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No, we can't. I am not even a big fan of the military and I would still choose them over illegals.

Here's you a little hint: The reason they are eligible for such things is because they pay federal and state taxes. They do not need a SS# in order to pay taxes..That was changed a long time ago.

[Celista]

Do they pay to support the American worker that they displace? Oh, of course not. The American taxpayer has to do that.

If labor was scarce, I'd be entirely on board with you. Labor isn't scarce at this time in history. In fact, labor is so abundant that the birth rates are falling in the west to compensate. Yet we fuck up the whole situation with open borders.

We have a US unemployment rate of 4.9 percent. Anything below an unemployment rate of 3.5 percent is associated with negative economic growth. Employers have a hard time filling positions at that unemployment rate. We ALREADY have that problem now, as Americans do not want to work the shit low-paying jobs that illegal immigrants take (usually less than minimum wage). The American taxpayer benefits by not having to pay out social security, medicaid, food stamps to illegal immigrants, because they are not eligible, and pays a lower rate for a variety of goods and services due to illegals taking the jobs that no one wants.

And don't try to tell me some sob story about how your great uncle really needed that $7/hr migrant farm work.