[Megathread] Mass Effect Andromeda

[Endus]

I agree here. In most games, sadly, the player is almost always rewarded for being good, with very rare penalties for that - while being bad usually backfires badly, with a lot of the essential characters dying/suffering. It would be nice if in more games you had to make a compromise between always doing the right thing, and sometimes having to face unforseen (unpleasant) consequences of doing so.

There seems to be a weird trend where the "good" options mean you get "better" results; less people die, or don't die, things just work out better, etc. It's not realistic. I'd love to see a narrative game where the morally "right" choices end up having bad consequences. Like say you do a questline tracking down a vigilante, and you can either cap them in the head, or turn them over to the cops. If you do the latter, they break out later, and one of your crew is their next target, and they catch them before you hear about their escape. You get to live knowing that your choice allowed for that to happen.

Obviously, not EVERY choice, or the game's just aping Dark Helmet's "evil will always triumph because good is dumb". But enough that you really question your choices. The "right" choice needs to NOT be the convenient/personally beneficial one. It has to be the one with negative consequences that you accept because you're standing on principle rather than coldly making decisions based on efficacy.

In ME3, the "good" choices generally got you the strongest army. I'd switch that. The Renegade choices should get you the strongest army, and make the finale the easiest. The Paragon choices should leave you struggling, but those who stick by you are fully on your side and highly motivated by your inspiring presence.

That ME:A is more complex than paragon/renegade is a good step, but I really hope there's choices like this, where the "good" choices are the ones that aren't optimal. Where you take the harder path because it's RIGHT, not because you get better rewards for doing so (which means you're just being utilitarian, not noble).

[Elim Garak]

There seems to be a weird trend where the "good" options mean you get "better" results; less people die, or don't die, things just work out better, etc. It's not realistic. I'd love to see a narrative game where the morally "right" choices end up having bad consequences. Like say you do a questline tracking down a vigilante, and you can either cap them in the head, or turn them over to the cops. If you do the latter, they break out later, and one of your crew is their next target, and they catch them before you hear about their escape. You get to live knowing that your choice allowed for that to happen.

Kotor 2 is all about that

[Ilikegreenfire]

Wait a minute what if PeeBee was born in Andromida or was atleast a child when she came over. Aand the human ship lagged behind so long that she grew to maturity. We know shes 100 something and we know she already in Andromeda when we get there. If her eyebrows are indeed a human trait, she would have had to been conceived in the ~30 years between first contact and the launching of the initiative, or In Andromida.

While there is a main Ark ship for each council race, every ship has a diverse crew made up of every species, meaning there could be quite a few human crewmen around. When the human ark ship does't arrive, those crewmen that might find comfort in the arms of a bunch of sexy blue aliens girls. Especially if the figure the human Arkship exploded in dark space or something.

That means we could be upwards of 100 years late.

Would explain how she can be an expert on the remnant when we first arrive shes had 70-100 years to study

[Nazrark]

I wonder if the four different ARK are set up as Asari: Archeology/Long Term Study, Salarian: R&D/Espionage, Turian: Military, Human: Infrastructure. From what we've seen in the universe. That seems to be their four roles. As humanity is adept at setting up quick infrastructure no matter where they go.

[Dezerte]

I'm still worried about the MP. I loved the ME3MP, but the thought of MEAMP being anything like the one in DAI is terrifying. I never got to complete a single game (and thus never got the draconic decorations for Skyhold) ), thanks to that buggy mess.

I plan on buying the game on Origin and then returning it if MP is as broken as it was in DAI. The SP aspect of MEA does not interest me much to be honest, too much salt in the wound.

[Nerraw]

A few cool new tweets
https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/831969338580033536

The Nomad can have 4 or 6 wheels with different handling for each set up.

https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/831908041276563456

Once again we have a ME3 gun, Thus time an N7 show up with a promise to an explanation in game. Hello Cerberus

All these things are making me giddy.

[Tenjen]

There seems to be a weird trend where the "good" options mean you get "better" results; less people die, or don't die, things just work out better, etc. It's not realistic. I'd love to see a narrative game where the morally "right" choices end up having bad consequences. Like say you do a questline tracking down a vigilante, and you can either cap them in the head, or turn them over to the cops. If you do the latter, they break out later, and one of your crew is their next target, and they catch them before you hear about their escape. You get to live knowing that your choice allowed for that to happen.

Obviously, not EVERY choice, or the game's just aping Dark Helmet's "evil will always triumph because good is dumb". But enough that you really question your choices. The "right" choice needs to NOT be the convenient/personally beneficial one. It has to be the one with negative consequences that you accept because you're standing on principle rather than coldly making decisions based on efficacy.

In ME3, the "good" choices generally got you the strongest army. I'd switch that. The Renegade choices should get you the strongest army, and make the finale the easiest. The Paragon choices should leave you struggling, but those who stick by you are fully on your side and highly motivated by your inspiring presence.

That ME:A is more complex than paragon/renegade is a good step, but I really hope there's choices like this, where the "good" choices are the ones that aren't optimal. Where you take the harder path because it's RIGHT, not because you get better rewards for doing so (which means you're just being utilitarian, not noble).

I find Witcher did this quite often. Like in witcher 2 where helping a certain rebel sortof-ally by arming him in the middle of a fight causes a town to have a pogrom against elves. OR when you had to choose between letting innocent women burn or capturing the villain. etc etc

[Derah]

I find Witcher did this quite often. Like in witcher 2 where helping a certain rebel sortof-ally by arming him in the middle of a fight causes a town to have a pogrom against elves. OR when you had to choose between letting innocent women burn or capturing the villain. etc etc

I vaguely remember something like that.

One quest where a group of racist villagers were harrassing a cutie elfie girl accusing her of being a witch and a terrorist who had been killing villagers left and right, while the poor thing sobbed and pleaded her innocence.

You had the option of siding with the villagers, or with the girl. Of course, you later find out that the girl WAS guilty as fuck, and while the villagers were racist and accused all elves of being terrorists, they just happened to be right about this girl.

The closest I can think of Mass Effect going this route was with Elnora during ME2.

She's a cutie asari freshly joined with Eclipse, pleading you for mercy, claiming innocence, but less than a minute after sparing her life, you find a recording that bluntly states how she murdered an innocent man in cold blood, and utterly relished in the act. The paragon option when dealing with her is sparing her, the renegade option is to gun the bitch down.

Of course I took the renegade action, since I was paying attention to the lore and reading the codex entries up to that point: Eclipse mercs have to earn the right to wear the uniform by killing someone in cold blood. The fact that she was decked out in full eclipse armor meant she wasn't innocent at all.

Of course, this small moral dilemma is rendered null and void because less than a minute after deciding her fate, you find that recording (Thus allowing you to quick-load and choose again), and even if you spare her, you're prevented from having any consequences of your fuck-ups, as you can turn that recording to the police captain, and you can later hear a news report about how the cops arrested Elnora elsewhere offscreen.

So regardless of what you choose, the consequence is the same, and the results of your actions are seen so immediately, that nothing prevents you from quick-loading and trying again.

This is something that happens all too often in Bioware games, and its something I wish they'd grow out of. What's the point of putting consequences for your actions, if those consequences happen almost immediately after the action itself? all that does is encourage to quick-save before a big moral choice, see the different branches, and then quick-load and choose the best one.

The Witcher really did it well because it had moral choices, but you didn't see the outcome of those choices until MUCH later, forcing you to play the game, and live with what you've chosen, for good or ill.

With that elven girl I rescued, only to find out that she was guilty? I had no option but to live with that, as I only found out about her guilt almost 3 hours later, and fuck if I'm gonna lose 3 hours of progress just because of one sidequest.

[Tenjen]

I vaguely remember something like that.

One quest where a group of racist villagers were harrassing a cutie elfie girl accusing her of being a witch and a terrorist who had been killing villagers left and right, while the poor thing sobbed and pleaded her innocence.

*snip*

Yep or you had cases like choosing to kill the villain who led the town or saving the burning tower he locked women in to distract you. Both have shitty aspects but do good too. its a case of "can you live with the consequences of what you achieved?" more than "i'll avoid bad and do good"

[Endus]

This is something that happens all too often in Bioware games, and its something I wish they'd grow out of. What's the point of putting consequences for your actions, if those consequences happen almost immediately after the action itself? all that does is encourage to quick-save before a big moral choice, see the different branches, and then quick-load and choose the best one.

That's a related problem, yeah. My ideal would be that the full consequences don't hit until later, and that the "asshole/violent/selfish" options generally provide greater rewards. Not always, but usually. Maybe not by much, but enough that the cold optimizer chooses that darker path. Doing the right thing should be the less rewarding path, in terms of in-game benefits, because doing the right thing should be enough. Otherwise, you're not "doing the right thing", you're pursuing the best reward for your actions. It's a selfish option that lets you feel good about being selfish.

[pateuvasiliu]

If you think its not realistic, hello? You're playing a game that involves cloning, cyborgs, pseudo-jedi powers, bringing people back from the dead, mind-control, faster-than-light travel, lego-genetics, aliens, and green space magic that can meld organic matter with synthetic matter, across an entire galaxy.

Just because sci fi exists doesn't mean real physics get thrown off the window, though?

If Shepard had used biotics in that scene I'd have bought it, but he didn't. He just used sheer physical force to headbutt a creature that weighs a ton and has a plated skull.

It already looks weird when muscle dude Shep does it, it looks laughable when 60 kilo woman Shep does it.

[Derah]

Just because sci fi exists doesn't mean real physics get thrown off the window, though?

When someone is brought back from the dead? yep.

To say nothing about how mass effect fields, and biotic powers are a big middle finger to physics in general. Just in case I need to clarify, no you can't move objects with your mind in real life.

If Shepard had used biotics in that scene I'd have bought it, but he didn't. He just used sheer physical force to headbutt a creature that weighs a ton and has a plated skull.

Well my shepard was a biotic >_> (Well, sort of, Vanguard, but it still counts dammit) But still, its not like you knocked down the 1000-kilo heavy krogan with a single headbutt. He was talking shit about you, and you did something he did not expect by shutting him up with a headbutt. Notice how when Wrex headbutted that same Krogan, the krogan was knocked flat on his ass to the ground and dind't get back up for the rest of the scene. When Shepard did the same, all you did was piss him off (While shepard had to rub his/her neck, probably internally saying "FUUUUUUUUUCK that really really hurts like shit....... but it was worth it dammit")

I don't recall shepard knocking down the krogan with the headbutt, nor any other physics-defying feats like juggling battleships or shredding metal doors.

Lastly, do recall that by Mass Effect 2, Shepard is no longer 100% human.

S/he's a cyborg, with extensive genetic and mechanical upgrades. S/he's not subjected to the same limitation that a normal human being would be. Which is probably the reason why s/he doesn't get a concussion/fractured skull from headbutting a guy who had a solid plated crest on the forehead.

[MrTharne]

https://www.masseffect.com/news/nakmor-drack

Nakmor Drack aka Old Man aka Drack the Nak :
"Do you have any idea how many humans I've watched die? You're meat. You spoil."

I like him already.

[Nerraw]

https://www.masseffect.com/news/nakmor-drack

Nakmor Drack aka Old Man aka Drack the Nak :
"Do you have any idea how many humans I've watched die? You're meat. You spoil."

I like him already.

Interesting. Drack and the Nexus architect are from the same clan.

Also, the ME Facebook page has teased that a new Andromeda Initiative video will be out tomorrow.

- - - Updated - - -

And we've encountered Clan Nakmor before: https://twitter.com/BSNforums/status/832306314562895872

[Ilikegreenfire]

Damn Drack is old, 1.4k years old. Makes Wrex look like a spring chicken.

- - - Updated - - -

https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/832302008732438529

Looks like Drack has some sort of fire ability that primes combos

[I Push Buttons]

I find Witcher did this quite often. Like in witcher 2 where helping a certain rebel sortof-ally by arming him in the middle of a fight causes a town to have a pogrom against elves. OR when you had to choose between letting innocent women burn or capturing the villain. etc etc

Yeah Witcher 3 had lot of choices where both options turn out bad/have unintended consequences.

Freeing the Whispering Hillock thinking you are doing the right thing and saving the children, only to find out he proceeded to massacre a village and will potentially kill far more people.

Or saving the mages in Novigrad only to watch the Witch Hunters start burning non-humans at the stake to sate their crazyness.

[Deleted]

Or saving the mages in Novigrad only to watch the Witch Hunters start burning non-humans at the stake to sate their crazyness.

Terrorist attack on their HQ, clearly they needed to bring some democracy to the city.

[Mellomania]

I don't like it when you have to do really bad stuff for good things, i feel awful if i do stuff like that in games.
Like killing Mordin, i'd never do it because it makes me feel terrible >_>

So Mass Effect has been pretty perfect for how i like games

[Jastall]

Yeah Witcher 3 had lot of choices where both options turn out bad/have unintended consequences.

Freeing the Whispering Hillock thinking you are doing the right thing and saving the children, only to find out he proceeded to massacre a village and will potentially kill far more people.

Or saving the mages in Novigrad only to watch the Witch Hunters start burning non-humans at the stake to sate their crazyness.

The latter wasn't really a choice, if I recall correctly. It happens regardless of what you do in that questline.

Bioware does go for morally ambiguous choices, but often leaves a catch, a way out. Like in Origins, when you either have to kill a boy possessed by a demon, sacrifice his mother to power a blood magic ritual allowing you to kill the demon (or bargain with it)... or you can leave the castle, stroll up to Kinloch Hold, and bring a retinue of mages to painlessly resolve the situation. I dislike that kind of thing. Or when you can choose to either kill the elves or the werewolves, or lift the curse to ensure peace. Same with the Geth+Quarian conflict in ME3.

They do sometimes turn this around, however. The Genophage choice in ME3 gives you the best rewards if you deceive the Krogans; kill Wrex in ME1, destroy Maelon's data in ME2, and you can convince Mordin to lie to Wreav, allowing you to recruit both the Salarians and Krogan forces into the fold, and you don't need to shoot Mordin or watch him die. That was a solid Renegade choice; there were too few of those.

In Inquisition too, the Orlesian civil war ends with someone losing, and all three parties are morally grey. You can force them to work together, which is hard and looks like the typical happy ending cop-out at first, but the epilogue states that they will swiftly be right back to backstabbing the fuck out of each other.

Oh, and the choice in Iron Bull's personal quest? There's a payoff in the Trespasser DLC. A pretty damn big one, in fact, that makes a lot of sense and that I loved.

[Deleted]

Looks like I will play a female protagonist in andromeda, because the male one, unless he is heavily customizeable as well as in muscularity, is a freaking Nu-male compared to shepard.