Pharah needs a nerf on console

[minteK917]

Unless something drastically changed again, they removed the ability to "tap" last I checked, and bullet spread isn't based on letting go of M1 anymore.

It still is, it was only reduced. Pharah is not even playable 90% of the time on PC ranked. Unless you are ranked very low under 3000. Pharah is only played when there is enough opportunity for enviroment kills at that point. Like Two maps on tower and one map on nepal.

[Orangetai420]

You said, and I quote, "If I'm not playing hitscan and the enemy team has a pharah it seems like it is a guaranteed loss". The obvious solution is to play a hitscan hero to counter the Pharah.

Right... I play hitscan when I can but if my hitscan characters are taken I have no option....

[minteK917]

Right... I play hitscan when I can but if my hitscan characters are taken I have no option....

How is that a pharah problem? The worse team lost?

[Jester Joe]

It still is, it was only reduced. Pharah is not even playable 90% of the time on PC ranked. Unless you are ranked very low under 3000. Pharah is only played when there is enough opportunity for enviroment kills at that point. Like Two maps on tower and one map on nepal.

Very low under 3000.

When 2500 is considered average.

And that isn't a "Pharah" problem, that's due to everyone having their whole "Tanks and healers metaaaaa".

How is that a pharah problem? The worse team lost?

Pharah shouldn't be the lone deciding factor of which team is worse.

[minteK917]

Pharah shouldn't be the lone deciding factor of which team is worse.

It definitively should. You have access to 4 heroes that stomp her and to play pharah herself. If you lost, its not because of Pharah. If the players that picked 76 and ANA on your team cannot deal with her, your team is actually going to lose and thats how you decide which team is better. Pharah is a situational hero, she required neither a buff or a nerf period. Its not even up for debate.

[Jester Joe]

It definitively should. You have access to 4 heroes that stomp her and to play pharah herself. If you lost, its not because of Pharah. If the players that picked 76 and ANA on your team cannot deal with her, your team is actually going to lose and thats how you decide which team is better. Pharah is a situational hero, she required neither a buff or a nerf period. Its not even up for debate.

Then you are talking about a situation I am not.

What I am stating is if you have equal players on both side, the one with Pharah shouldn't win because "Pharah".

If one team has 5 trash players, and someone who had to pick healer because Soldier 76 was already picked, and another team has 5 trash players and a Pharah, it shouldn't be an instant win for them.

Yes, Ana COULD harass the Pharah, but yet again, not enough damage quick enough to actually kill her, especially if there's a Mercy. And that leaves your team to die because no one's healing them.

[minteK917]

Then you are talking about a situation I am not.

What I am stating is if you have equal players on both side, the one with Pharah shouldn't win because "Pharah".

If one team has 5 trash players, and someone who had to pick healer because Soldier 76 was already picked, and another team has 5 trash players and a Pharah, it shouldn't be an instant win for them.

Yes, Ana COULD harass the Pharah, but yet again, not enough damage quick enough to actually kill her, especially if there's a Mercy. And that leaves your team to die because no one's healing them.

Ana requires 3 hit to kill pharah at any ranges, you realize this? Get on 76 and if you both shoot pharah mercy cant heal her. Yes if your soldier/mccree/ana/zen suck you should lose to a team with pharah, thats the end of it. Equal team is not something you see unless its a tournament match or very high master ranks. And guess what Pharah can only be played on 3 KOTH map section across 2 KOTH maps. You cant play her on any payload or double point, Ana and 76 are 99.9% pick.

Shit pharah doesent dominate good players not playing hit scan either. I kill pharahs all the time on genji, hanzo, roadhog, mei. Because those are shit pharahs.

[Jester Joe]

Ana requires 3 hit to kill pharah at any ranges, you realize this? Get on 76 and if you both shoot pharah mercy cant heal her. Yes if your soldier/mccree/ana/zen suck you should lose to a team with pharah, thats the end of it. Equal team is not something you see unless its a tournament match or very high master ranks. And guess what Pharah can only be played on 3 KOTH map section across 2 KOTH maps. You cant play her on any payload or double point, Ana and 76 are 99.9% pick.

Shit pharah doesent dominate good players not playing hit scan either. I kill pharahs all the time on genji, hanzo, roadhog, mei. Because those are shit pharahs.

Do you know how slow Ana shoots, and how she does damage over time? It gives plenty of time for the Pharah to react.

Also the game shouldn't be balanced around solely "The pros don't have issues with this". There's a fine line that needs to be walked.

Also, I never said bad Pharahs.

[minteK917]

Also, I never said bad Pharahs.

So explain to me why good pharahs shouldnt beat shit soldiers and anas? Also Ana kills pharah faster then mccree, she just cant head shot, but she can do it at any ranges.

[shoegazing]

why would you play FPS on a console? lmfao

[Jester Joe]

So explain to me why good pharahs shouldnt beat shit soldiers and anas?

I never even said that. I said she shouldn't be an instant win against other good players who aren't soldiers or anas

[minteK917]

I never even said that. I said she shouldn't be an instant win against other good players who aren't soldiers or anas

She should, just like winston is instant win against most solo dps bar reaper. Games not balance on 1v1. Be good at hit scan or know someone that is or lose to pharah its that simple.

[Jester Joe]

She should, just like winston is instant win against most solo dps bar reaper. Games not balance on 1v1. Be good at hit scan or know someone that is or lose to pharah its that simple.

Winston is far from instant win against...well, anything except maybe Widowmaker.

[Xenryusho]

Can you plug in a mouse and keyboard and use that as controls with an xbox? If not then yea, thats the problem with controllers.

[Mask]

She should, just like winston is instant win against most solo dps bar reaper. Games not balance on 1v1. Be good at hit scan or know someone that is or lose to pharah its that simple.

What?? Winston is one of the worst 1v1 heroes in the game. His damage is low, his attack range is low, and he has no self healing at all.

The only thing Winston is good for is jumping on snipers or healers who are alone - and even then it's no guarantee. If Mercy has any allies within line of sight she will just fly away to them and now she has help. Ana will sleep you and run to help. Symmetra can probably beat a Winston 1v1 if she has any turrets nearby to run to. Zenyatta you got, finally a hero Winston can reliably kill 1v1.

[minteK917]

What?? Winston is one of the worst 1v1 heroes in the game. His damage is low, his attack range is low, and he has no self healing at all.

The only thing Winston is good for is jumping on snipers or healers who are alone - and even then it's no guarantee. If Mercy has any allies within line of sight she will just fly away to them and now she has help. Ana will sleep you and run to help. Symmetra can probably beat a Winston 1v1 if she has any turrets nearby to run to. Zenyatta you got, finally a hero Winston can reliably kill 1v1.

You realize half your answers are RUN TO HELP. Yes run to a team8 its not a 1v1 game. Winston gun one shots sentry against symmtra, unless your mouse sense is too low shes easy. You skipped over all the dps that can only also run away from him. A winston that know how to use his mobility can destroy a good portion of the cast 1v1, yet hes still shit, BECAUSE its not how the game works. Pharah can solo most of the cast bar hit scan, shes still situational or mediocre at mid high to master rating. Try to think about why that is.

[Torgent]

It still is, it was only reduced. Pharah is not even playable 90% of the time on PC ranked. Unless you are ranked very low under 3000. Pharah is only played when there is enough opportunity for enviroment kills at that point. Like Two maps on tower and one map on nepal.

That's not even remotely true lol. Pharah is played at all ranks to great effect. She's one of the best dps because she can disrupt and she can take our her counters pretty reliably. I get that you don't know anything about competitive overwatch, but don't say stupid things. As a matter of fact, when I watch streams of top 500 players there's always a Pharah and she's almost always destroying.

- - - Updated - - -

You realize half your answers are RUN TO HELP. Yes run to a team8 its not a 1v1 game. Winston gun one shots sentry against symmtra, unless your mouse sense is too low shes easy. You skipped over all the dps that can only also run away from him. A winston that know how to use his mobility can destroy a good portion of the cast 1v1, yet hes still shit, BECAUSE its not how the game works. Pharah can solo most of the cast bar hit scan, shes still situational or mediocre at mid high to master rating. Try to think about why that is.

You're still claiming things that are downright false. Pharah is not mediocre at all lol. She's A tier dps in GM.

[Jester Joe]

You realize half your answers are RUN TO HELP. Yes run to a team8 its not a 1v1 game. Winston gun one shots sentry against symmtra, unless your mouse sense is too low shes easy. You skipped over all the dps that can only also run away from him. A winston that know how to use his mobility can destroy a good portion of the cast 1v1, yet hes still shit, BECAUSE its not how the game works. Pharah can solo most of the cast bar hit scan, shes still situational or mediocre at mid high to master rating. Try to think about why that is.

A Winston will most likely lose to a Symmetra 1v1, due to the damage ramp on her weapon.

And she's not mediocre at all.

[xChurch]

I wish they just undid the buffs they recently gave her. Being able to fly basically forever and damaging groups easier has made her far deadlier than before since it can be fairly hard to hit her even on S76 and McCree.

[Endus]

You realize half your answers are RUN TO HELP. Yes run to a team8 its not a 1v1 game. Winston gun one shots sentry against symmtra, unless your mouse sense is too low shes easy. You skipped over all the dps that can only also run away from him. A winston that know how to use his mobility can destroy a good portion of the cast 1v1, yet hes still shit, BECAUSE its not how the game works. Pharah can solo most of the cast bar hit scan, shes still situational or mediocre at mid high to master rating. Try to think about why that is.

I'd strongly disagree on the claim that Winston can destroy most offense 1v1.

His leap doesn't do much damage; it works as an opener, but in between, you're leaping to try and not get shot as much while you reload; if you aren't reloading, you'd do more damage just staying down and shooting.

Let's compare to bog-standard Soldier 76.

Winston has 400 health, 100 armor. His tesla cannon does 60 damage per second, can fire for 5 seconds, and reloads in 1.5 seconds. His leap does 50 damage on impact.

Soldier 76 has 200 health, a biotic field that can regen 40 hps, and his gun in close range (where he'll be facing Winston) deals 20 damage a round, and fires 8.8 rounds a second, with 25 rounds in the chamber and a 1.5s reload time. Plus helix rockets for another 120 damage.

If we assume everything hits, Winston starts out with a 50hp impact, and then is effectively doing 20hp/s for 5 seconds, offset by Biotic Field. After that full burn, he's done 150 damage, and has to reload, so he leaps, and will kill Soldier 76 when he lands, dealing the remaining 50 damage, which is about a second later (I'm assuming he jumped straight up, if he jumps laterally he's out of range and Soldier 76 will kill him as he runs back). So about 6 seconds to kill an aware Soldier 76 solo.

Soldier 76 opens up with Helix Rockets, burning off Winston's armor and dealing an additional 15 damage (reduced by 5 overall due to the armor). He then starts cycling fire into Winston; he can unload a full clip in 2.84 seconds, for 500 damage. This is in maybe half the time that Winston needs to kill Soldier 76; Winston is already dead.

Hell, if we assume Soldier 76 stupidly saves his rockets for a finisher, the first 7 rounds are reduced by 5 each before he burns through the armor, leaving Winston at 395 health, and the remaining 18 bullets do 360, leaving Winston at 35 health. Even if Soldier reloads, he STILL kills Winston with bullets before Winston can get the kill, even without Helix Rockets.

Yes, I ignored Winston's shield, since it's trivial for Soldier 76 to just run away and get you out of the shield, or stay inside it and force you to get close enough that it doesn't matter. It has value, but not that much in dueling.

Winston's great for posing a threat to keep harassers like Genji and Tracer away (but he can't effectively chase them, since they have better mobility and his range is garbage). But in straight-up fights, his tesla gun is really not a good weapon. It shines if the enemy team is largely ignoring you during a tightly packed teamfight on the point, since you can hit multiple people. That's about it. That's the problem with his design; he has so little range with his gun, it does so little damage, and he doesn't have the defense to back this up. Compare to D.va, who's got more effective mobility (her boosters, which are more controllable), does better than twice as much damage as Winston (albeit not in a cone, but with the advantage of more than three times the effective range), has a more-useful defensive tool (matrix as compared to the shield), has more health, AND has a more useful Ultimate. And when you "kill" her, she pops out of her mech and keeps going. The ONLY advantage Winston has over D.va is that his primary fire is a melee-range cone, which is almost never really useful.