Riots erupting in immigrant-dominated Swedish suburb

[Sama-81]

It's just income. Hardship breeds crime, even if that "hardship" is just "not as well off as others in your society". Poor Swedes are just as likely to offend as the children of poor immigrants. Because this doesn't have to do with immigration, is the point. It has to do with income inequality.

That is a complete and utter lie, I'm afraid, which has been clearly demonstrated before by comparing different ethnic groups living under the same socio-economic conditions - I particularly remember a comparison between southeast asians and north africans, living in one of the Scandinavian countries, adjusted for living standard, area of living, and so forth. And there was a significant difference when it came to crime rate as well as nature of crimes comitted. So claiming that it is only income and similar that matters is unequivocally false. Sadly, any such comparison can not be done for Sweden in the here and now, since such information is no longer seen as 'relevant', but it has been shown enough times to not be needed (and, according to BRÅ themselves it seems, it having been shown adequately already is actually a straight out reason for not needing to show such data any longer - extraordinarily enough). Not saying that socio-economic factors might not be the most important ones, just that it's an outright falsehood to claim it's the only one that has any real impact.

Edit: BRÅ being the agency responsible for criminal statistics

[Deleted]

It's because Sweden is a case study for what happens to a nice civilization of very well intentioned people who offer nothing but support for a war torn islamic nations population. The US has an interest in seeing how these populations affect the host country.

More like, case study for how retarded politicians can ruin a perfectly working country by implementing retarded policies all over and refusing to get rid of old dysfunctional retarded policies like EBO and "fria skolvalet".

[Deleted]

No, the two are nothing alike because you're comparing what populations do (America vs Sweden) to what's allowed under the law (America vs Saudi Arabia). Those are two different conversations. Just because America has a higher crime rate doesn't mean we cannot spot a rise in Swedish crime and draw inferences as to what might be behind that spike.

What spike? Show me the spike.

[Deleted]

None of the law changes in 2005 and 2013 would change what constitutes a sex crime. All they did was move/redefine crimes from one sub-category to another with it. They didn't change what the "sex crime" category encompasses. Those redefined crimes would've still been sex crimes prior to moving them to another sub-category.

And you repeat your desinformation again. No, its not becoming true because you repeat it. Even if you try to create cognitive dissonance.

[Deleted]

And you repeat your desinformation again. No, its not becoming true because you repeat it. Even if you try to create cognitive dissonance.

There is no disinformation just because you are incapable of understanding what was changed. What constituted a sex crime back in 2005 before they changed the law is still a sex crime in 2017.

[Endus]

No, there's been no change in what defines a sex crime. There's been a change in what defines rape or sexual coercion. They're all sex crimes regardless of what they're sub-defined as. It's literally just moving it from one sub-category to another. It's all encompassed under sex crime either way, which hasn't been redefined.

"There's been no changes to sex crime laws, except for all the changes to sex crime laws".

Come on, man. You can't honestly not see how ridiculous that is. Particularly since the 2013 changes specifically broadened the definition of "rape" to include cases that would otherwise not have been deemed criminal, which is what resulted in the spike that year; a broader classification means that those borderline cases were now being charged as rape, where before they weren't.

[Deleted]

There is no disinformation just because you are incapable of understanding what was changed.

You still didnt answer my question what you want to achieve by spreading propaganda and desinformations.

What is your gain?

If i could take a guess: Attention.

[Deleted]

"There's been no changes to sex crime laws, except for all the changes to sex crime laws".

Come on, man. You can't honestly not see how ridiculous that is.

Are you incapable of understanding what they changed? They didn't redefine what a sex crime is or was. What was a sex crime before the law changes is still a sex crime and what a sex crime is today was still a sex crime before the law changes.

Them moving sexual exploitation cases to rape instead of classifying it as sexual exploitation doesn't cause an increase in sex crimes. The amount of sex crimes stays the same regardless of what sub-category they put them in.

[Narwal]

That's not "sneaky". That's literally being honest and forthcoming.

The entire point is that, statistically, if you control for a certain factor and variations vanish, then that factor is the causative factor, not other factors. So if you control for income, and crime rate discrepancies between various ethnic groups vanish, you've proven that the issue isn't ethnicity or race or culture or whatever word you want to use.

It's just income. Hardship breeds crime, even if that "hardship" is just "not as well off as others in your society". Poor Swedes are just as likely to offend as the children of poor immigrants. Because this doesn't have to do with immigration, is the point. It has to do with income inequality.

When the facts contradict the ideological view you want to see supported, it means that ideological view is wrong, not that the facts are "sneaky".

Pretty much everyone knew that refugee intake would lead to a slight increase in crime rates, for this reason. The connection between poverty and crime offense rates has been well-known for decades. As long as it's within reason (and it clearly is), then the situation's still well under control. That doesn't mean this particular crime is "okay" and nobody should be punished, it means that the legal system can function as it does with every other crime, and you don't have grounds to start shouting about how awful foreigners are.

Now you're equating the peoples arguments that immigrants bring in more crime to being only that labeled on race and ethnicity. That's not the argument here. The argument is if you're bringing in a bunch of poor people, and poor people commit crimes, then bringing in more immigrants brings in more crimes. The argument is NOT that brown people commit crimes at higher rates than whites.

So tell me, if immigrants you bring in are of a higher poor ratio than the native population, and if poor people commit crimes at higher rates... are you raising the crime rate of a country as a whole by bringing in large numbers of immigrants? Looking at that as a simple math formula, would say yes.

edit: I should note this is my argument, I can't speak for everyone else and what their theories are.

I guess it could be a point that, based on origin of the immigrant, the chance they are poor or not could be different. So an argument could be made that immigrants from certain parts of the world bring more crime than other, based on their rates of poverty, not necessarily on other factors like their religion or common pracitices of the area. It's much harder to find data to support that theory, but clearly the left wants very hard to paint everything bad a person does based on their economic status, such that we can excuse their actions to that of racism which holds them into economic situations.

[Tijuana]

WHAT FACTS???
You act like immigration that happened 100 years ago somehow means you've got superior knowledge to me, who's living CURRENT EVENTS in a country you know nothing about. You've spewed nonsensical garabage for several pages that I've already refuted.
You say you're a nation of immigratns and that we're a nation of Swedes, which is so hillariously ignorant and incorrect that it's insulting. Yet you have the balls to keep sitting there acting superior to me. For you to grasp how ignorant you are I would have to teach you hundreds of years of my country's history and I don't think neither your nor me wanna sit through that.
I'm saying YOU have no insight to offer. Why are you acting like some kind of expert? And then you have the fucking balls, to tell me that it's ME being prideful? And you somehow can't even grasp how arrogant you're sounding.

You said my facts were false. You tell me which ones you meant. /shrug

You know who else is living CURRENT EVENTS in a nation YOU know nothing about? Me. Your notion that you can criticize my land, but I cannot do the same, is fucking ridiculous. Your notion that all immigration in the US stopped 100 years ago, is fucking ridiculous.

I have not acted superior to you in any way. The only mean thing I have done, is have a different opinion that yours, and refused to back down from it. You on the other hand, have repeatedly called me names, even though I have not done that to you. You are using your own baseless taking of offense, as evidence of my wrong doing. You must be joking, if you think that is a supportable position to take.

I have never put myself forth as an expert. I am merely a person with an opinion that is different from yours, discussing a topic on a discussion forum. It is you, not me, that thinks there is some sort of force field around my nation that makes in unable to be discussed, in any terms, by non-citizens.

Re-read your entire diatribe and tell me you are not being prideful. Get serious.

[unbound]

Riots erupted in a heavily immigrant Stockholm suburb Monday night, as masked looters set cars ablaze and threw rocks at cops, injuring one police officer, Swedish officials said.

TRUMP MAY HAVE BEEN UNCLEAR, BUT SWEDEN IS EXPERIENCING A MIGRANT CRIME WAVE

In this picture taken on Monday, Feb. 20, 2017,a policeman investigates a burned out car in the suburb of Rinkeby outside Stockholm. Police in Sweden said Tuesday they were investigating riots that broke out overnight in a predominantly immigrant Stockholm suburb after officers arrested a suspect on drug charges. Spokesman Lars Bystrom said unidentified people, including some wearing masks, threw rocks at police, set cars on fire and looted shops in Rinkeby, north of Stockholm. (Christine Olsson/TT News Agency via AP)Expand / Contract
A policeman investigates a burned car in the suburb of Rinkeby on Monday. (AP)
The violence in Rinkeby began around 8 p.m., when officers arrested a suspect at an underground station on drug charges, The Local reported. A group soon gathered, hurling rocks and other objects at officers and prompting one cop to fire his gun “in a situation that demanded he use his firearm,” police spokesman Lars Bystrom said.


Source :http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02...sh-suburb.html

Sigh.

First of all, if you bother to actually watch the recording of what Trump said, he referred to an incident that was supposed to have taken place the night before. You can rationalize his comment until you are blue, but it doesn't change the objective fact that what he said was factually wrong.

Second, if you bother to go to the source referenced in the Fox News article (http://www.thelocal.se/20170221/swed...-rinkeby-riots), you would find this interesting context:

"Several people" threw rocks at the officers, according to police, who later confirmed that one officer had fired at rioters.

"But nobody has been found injured at the scene and we have checked the hospitals and there hasn't been anyone with what could be gunshot wounds," police spokesperson Lars Byström told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper.

The unrest continued late into the night. At around 10.20pm police said that there had been a second violent riot, with seven to eight cars set on fire. An hour later they said that some stores in the area had been looted, although there were no reports on the extent of the looting.

So, initially, it was a handful of people, and after police officers fired at that handful, it got bigger...still substantially smaller than many universities in the US when their sports team loses (or sometimes even wins)...with about 30 to 50 people total (https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170...-riot-rinkeby/).

Furthermore, that neighborhood (Rinkeby) has had riots in 2010 and 2013...so while it could have involved immigrants, it is actually more likely to be a factor of the police arresting a drug dealer and the surrounding populace got mad...again. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...221-story.html)

Now, when people like me say treat Fox News with a great deal of suspicion and use other sources to verify, this is why. Fox News didn't provide you will all the facts, now did they? Fox News inserted opinions and conveniently left out important details to make it sound like something much bigger than it was, didn't they?

Once again, to quote Loki..."Are you ever not going to fall for that?"

How many times does Fox News have to give you partial facts and twisted views of reality before you are going to accept that Fox News just isn't a reliable news source on their own?

And, BTW, the same concepts apply to Huffington Post...so, no, this isn't about attacking a conservative news organization.

[Endus]

Are you incapable of understanding what they changed? They didn't redefine what a sex crime is or was. What was a sex crime before the law changes is still a sex crime and what a sex crime is today was still a sex crime before the law changes.

That is false. Prior to 2005, sleeping with someone passed out wasn't deemed "rape". After 2005, it was. Before 2013, someone too scared to resist wasn't deemed to have been raped. After 2013, they were.

Those are concrete expansions of the definition of "rape" that brought in cases that would previously have been deemed non-criminal.

I've already cited you the BRA themselves acknowledging this factor and how it affected the data.

[Deleted]

Tell the government to give people access to the data then. Then we can easily see who is right and who is wrong. As it stands, they are not doing anything to check this and provide data and instead think people will just buy into what they say without any studies/data to confirm it.

So you're stating something to which you have no data and can't prove, yet you're acting like it's infallible and true?

[Deleted]

Oh look another day in our beloved country! pfft...

Like this whole thing is causing massive braindamage to me... I cannot see the benefits of these people coming to our country.
Our media is covering everything, and if you speak out about the refugees you get fired from your job and ppl start hate on you?!

Im a really nice guy, I love helping people and just showing that there are good people out there, ya know? And im not racist at all! I do like other cultures and so on but how this is now in Sweden is not acceptable!

In my town, with 15k+ ppl - we are seeing such a change in our town! There are barely any whites outside anymore. Cars get wreckd. Old people getting robbed on their way to the store. The list just goes on...

But media rather make a whole fkin repotage about trump saying OHH LOOK AT SWEDEN!!

Pls I really really hope there is a true man/woman of this nation that will end this!

Im just so mad and sad rly... Like is there even a future here?

I need to go to the doctor, guess what i gotta wait for like 2months before I can see one?

[Taneras]

What spike? Show me the spike.

Reported sexual offenses rose from 12,147 in 2006 to a high of 20,326 in 2014. It's down to 18,057 in 2015 (no data from 2016 yet). But still, a ~50% rise in less than a decade is a spike.

https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-englis...-offences.html

[Endus]

Now you're equating the peoples arguments that immigrants bring in more crime to being only that labeled on race and ethnicity. That's not the argument here. The argument is if you're bringing in a bunch of poor people, and poor people commit crimes, then bringing in more immigrants brings in more crimes. The argument is NOT that brown people commit crimes at higher rates than whites.

So tell me, if immigrants you bring in are of a higher poor ratio than the native population, and if poor people commit crimes at higher rates... are you raising the crime rate of a country as a whole by bringing in large numbers of immigrants? Looking at that as a simple math formula, would say yes.

edit: I should note this is my argument, I can't speak for everyone else and what their theories are.

And? Pretty much everyone recognizes this. It's deemed an acceptable tradeoff for the humanitarian gains in aiding those people, or the long-term economic gains from economic immigration.

[Bakis]

Reported sexual offenses rose from 12,147 in 2006 to a high of 20,326 in 2014. It's down to 18,057 in 2015 (no data from 2016 yet). But still, a ~50% rise in less than a decade is a spike.

https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-englis...-offences.html

There been an increase but the law has changed twice to the stiffer side.

[Deleted]

That is false. Prior to 2005, sleeping with someone passed out wasn't deemed "rape". After 2005, it was. Before 2013, someone too scared to resist wasn't deemed to have been raped. After 2013, they were.

Those are concrete expansions of the definition of "rape" that brought in cases that would previously have been deemed non-criminal.

What the fuck is even wrong with you? I'm not talking about rape. Sleeping with someone passed out prior to 2005 was still a sex crime but it wasn't rape, it was sexual exploitation.

I'm talking about the category "Sex crimes", which encompasses sexual harassment,, sexual exploitation, sexual coercion, rape, sex trafficking, paying for sex and so on. Just because they redefine something that was previously sexual coercion to being rape does not mean that the amount of sex crimes increases. The amount of rapes increases and cases of sexual coercion falls but the number for the category "Sex crimes" stays the same, regardless of where they fall within the sub-categories.

This shouldn't be hard for you to understand.

[Gully Man]

"There's been no changes to sex crime laws, except for all the changes to sex crime laws".

Come on, man. You can't honestly not see how ridiculous that is. Particularly since the 2013 changes specifically broadened the definition of "rape" to include cases that would otherwise not have been deemed criminal, which is what resulted in the spike that year; a broader classification means that those borderline cases were now being charged as rape, where before they weren't.

So what do we put the spike down to in 2016?

* The number of reported rapes increased by 13 percent to 6560 crime, while the reported crimes of sexual coercion and exploitation decreased 1 percent to 1 240.
* The number of reported crimes of sexual assault increased by 20 per cent to 10500 crimes

[Deleted]

Very interesting times indeed. I wonder how we will look back on them