[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Deleted]

Have you found the 4pc to be that good? I found that towards the end of my TS it makes me able to get in an extra AiS or two where I would otherwise be using more arcanes to get focus, but that's about it. Pretty lackluster in my opinion.

You assume MM. Why is that?

[Dracodraco]

You assume MM. Why is that?

Probably because it's the most represented spec, and the listed BiS slots correspond to MM's BIS tier pieces (I've got no clue which BM uses, could be the same). It's fair to assume MM when there's 50% more MM hunters than BM hunters (15.4K vs 10.2K mythic logs).
You seem to assume BM. Why is that?

[ydraw]

Probably because it's the most represented spec, and the listed BiS slots correspond to MM's BIS tier pieces (I've got no clue which BM uses, could be the same). It's fair to assume MM when there's 50% more MM hunters than BM hunters (15.4K vs 10.2K mythic logs).
You seem to assume BM. Why is that?

The split between BM and MM is basically 50% at this point. Time to start accepting that.

[Ravenzedd]

The split between BM and MM is basically 50% at this point. Time to start accepting that.

The split is 15k/10k in mythic WCL, and 217k/192k in heroic.

So no, it's not basically 50%, it's exactly as draco said. MM is still played more for obvious reasons. Maybe you need to start accepting that.

[Eapoe]

The split is 15k/10k in mythic WCL, and 217k/192k in heroic.

So no, it's not basically 50%, it's exactly as draco said. MM is still played more for obvious reasons. Maybe you need to start accepting that.

He/she said basically 50%. MM is played more than BM where parses matter, but that doesn't mean to assume anything when someone asks, but it's on the original poster to specify.
The splits are more 57/43 mythic and 52/48 heroic. So "basically 50%" is a close approximation for those 2 difficulties.

[Deleted]

Probably because it's the most represented spec, and the listed BiS slots correspond to MM's BIS tier pieces (I've got no clue which BM uses, could be the same). It's fair to assume MM when there's 50% more MM hunters than BM hunters (15.4K vs 10.2K mythic logs).
You seem to assume BM. Why is that?

I didn't assume anything ... I replied taking into account all possibilities +-2% vs bonus set for all cases. If you want to split hairs ... all we know about the man from his post is that he killed up to krosus hc, if you look again you'll see that the representation for heroic is different. Please stop posting replies just for forum presence.

[ydraw]

He/she said basically 50%. MM is played more than BM where parses matter, but that doesn't mean to assume anything when someone asks, but it's on the original poster to specify.
The splits are more 57/43 mythic and 52/48 heroic. So "basically 50%" is a close approximation for those 2 difficulties.

Heroic includes mythic raiders (they still do heroic mode too). 52/48 is the approximate split over the whole population, it's pretty stupid on Draco's part to assume everyone only wants information on MM at this point.

[Keny]

From 7.2 artifact changes they are nerfing deadly aim by HALF....

Deadly Aim (Rank 1) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 3%. 1.5%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 2) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 6%. 3.0%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 3) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 10%. 5.0%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 4) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 13%. 6.5%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 5) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 16%. 8.0%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 6) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 20%. 10.0%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 7) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 23%. 11.5%.
Deadly Aim (Rank 8) Increases critical strike damage dealt by Aimed Shot by 26%. 13.0%.

[Alomega]

Probably because it's the most represented spec, and the listed BiS slots correspond to MM's BIS tier pieces (I've got no clue which BM uses, could be the same). It's fair to assume MM when there's 50% more MM hunters than BM hunters (15.4K vs 10.2K mythic logs).
You seem to assume BM. Why is that?

You know not everyone here plays in Mythic, right? Go look at the heroic numbers and see it's pretty much almost 50/50...

[Dracodraco]

Heroic includes mythic raiders (they still do heroic mode too). 52/48 is the approximate split over the whole population, it's pretty stupid on Draco's part to assume everyone only wants information on MM at this point.

I never stated that people only want information on MM. I stated it was stupid to assume that the dude in question was BM, because it's the less likely scenario - there's more MM hunters by a BIG margin in mythic, and by a small margin in heroic. What the guy giving advice SHOULD have done is either advice on both specs (assuming that he doesn't know the original dudes spec preference), OR have stated which spec he is giving advice for instead of being confusing as fuck by saying 4pc is actually worth anything, when it's barely worth using for MM (while it's decent for BM).

Also, just to make something clear - 15.4K vs 10.2K gives us an "exact" 60/40 split, not 57/43 as Eapoe says -

Math just to make sure everyone follows:

15400+10200 = 25600.
25600 / 100 = 256.
15400 / 256 = 60.16

Leaving 39.84 for BM hunters. For heroic the numbers are indeed closer, but MM is still ahead.

For heroic, it's a case of 53/47 split. Close enough to be considered about equal, which again just reinforces the fact that nobody should assume the spec of anyone if they don't clarify - instead, you should clarify what spec you're giving advice for.

I didn't assume anything ... I replied taking into account all possibilities +-2% vs bonus set for all cases. If you want to split hairs ... all we know about the man from his post is that he killed up to krosus hc, if you look again you'll see that the representation for heroic is different. Please stop posting replies just for forum presence.

In that case your advice was bad, because it's a much bigger deal for BM than it is MM.

The split between BM and MM is basically 50% at this point. Time to start accepting that.

As you can see from the above - not true. MM is still played a lot more, especially at higher tiers of raiding (remember that "all mythic logs" includes the first 3 freebies - as soon as you hit the "harder" encounters like spellblade, tich and botanist, MM to BM ratio drops from 60/40 to 75/25). I've got nothing against people playing BM and it's entirely viable in this patch - it just isn't the best spec, and it's not the most widely played spec. Time to start accepting that .

You know not everyone here plays in Mythic, right? Go look at the heroic numbers and see it's pretty much almost 50/50...

Heroic still has MM ahead, so initial assumption should still be MM. As already stated though; Ideally nobody assumes either spec and just actually bothers to clarify which spec they're adressing so we entirely avoid the discussion. It's an easy solution when percentages of players are as close as they are.

[Deleted]

The % you see in pawn is for that slot only, to get a more accurate ideea of the upgrade divide that % to the number of slots that's 15 and you get almost 2% in your case. Now decide if 2% is worth loosing the bonus.

Draco, this is my original post on the matter. Please read it again before we change our opinion of you for good. It says nowhere MM, BM or SV. The post applies to all specs.

[Dracodraco]

Draco, this is my original post on the matter. Please read it again before we change our opinion of you for good. It says nowhere MM, BM or SV. The post applies to all specs.

Actually, I replied to your second post where you say "You assume MM. Why is that?".

Any sane person will read that as "Why do you think I'm talking about MM?", which translates into "well, if he isn't talking about MM, it has to be about BM. Also, dude is BM in his signature, so yea, any advice he's giving is probably in relation to BM given those two facts" - which is why I ask "you seem to assume OP's BM. Why is that?".

Again, clarifications are key here - your posts are so vague that they can and will be interpreted based on exactly what you're saying and showing - a BM hunter giving advice going "why do you assume I'm talking about MM?".

[Deleted]

Actually, I replied to your second post where you say "You assume MM. Why is that?".

Any sane person will read that as "Why do you think I'm talking about MM?", which translates into "well, if he isn't talking about MM, it has to be about BM. Also, dude is BM in his signature, so yea, any advice he's giving is probably in relation to BM given those two facts" - which is why I ask "you seem to assume OP's BM. Why is that?".

Again, clarifications are key here - your posts are so vague that they can and will be interpreted based on exactly what you're saying and showing - a BM hunter giving advice going "why do you assume I'm talking about MM?".

My reply was valid for all 3 specs ... balance 2% upgrade vs 4pc bonus. Now the man can make up his mind if the bonus is worth more than 2% for his (whatever) spec. I made no assumption and asked the next guy why did he... Nothing in OP's post indicated a spec.

[Deleted]

The split is 15k/10k in mythic WCL, and 217k/192k in heroic.

So no, it's not basically 50%, it's exactly as draco said. MM is still played more for obvious reasons. Maybe you need to start accepting that.

Obvious reasons being that people simply invested more time in their MM artifact and MM legendaries prior to 7.1.5 and the split doesn't necessarily reflect a difference in viability between the 2 specs?
Obvious reasons being that a lot of BM Hunters still don't have the ridiculously strong 7.1.5 shoulders?
Or obvious reasons being that it's a lot easier to pad meters as MM, and padding meters is life?

Take your poison. MM Hunters keep on shitting on BM, I wonder where the insecurity is coming from.

[Kirbypro]

Start another thread if you people want to start another MM vs BM shit storm.

[Raicky]

Obvious reasons being that people simply invested more time in their MM artifact and MM legendaries prior to 7.1.5 and the split doesn't necessarily reflect a difference in viability between the 2 specs?
Obvious reasons being that a lot of BM Hunters still don't have the ridiculously strong 7.1.5 shoulders?
Or obvious reasons being that it's a lot easier to pad meters as MM, and padding meters is life?

Take your poison. MM Hunters keep on shitting on BM, I wonder where the insecurity is coming from.

And I wonder where all this defensiveness is coming from. Nobody is shitting on anything. Anyone with half a brain knows that both specs are equally viable.

[Deleted]

And I wonder where all this defensiveness is coming from. Nobody is shitting on anything. Anyone with half a brain knows that both specs are equally viable.

That's not the information spread by the regulars here.

[Doffen]

That's not the information spread by the regulars here.

Well on mythic at 99% bm is higher ranked on 4 fights, but the big difference is on the fights where MM is higher, where the difference in the dps is substantial because of multitarget fights where MM excells.

Overall yeah, MM is better, no question about that, but when rngeesus isn't with you as a MM(75%)the gap is way less, and BM is noticable better on ST.

[Khrux]

Mythic NH top 10 parses per boss, hunter spec breakdown;

Skorp top 10 - All MM
Anomoly top 10 - 8 MM, 2 BM
Trilliax top 10 - 3 MM, 3 BM, 4 Surv
Spellblade top 10 - All MM
Tich top 10 - All MM
Augur top 10 - 8 MM, 2 BM
Krosus top 10 - 4 MM, 4 BM, 2 Surv
Botanist top 10 - 6 MM, 3 BM, 1 Surv
Magistrix top 10 - 7 MM, 3 BM
Gul'dan - Not enough logs

- Fights where BM is more represented are those with heavier movement - Trilliax, Krosus, Botanist, Magistrix
- MM basically dominates every other fight, or can abuse marked shot enough to make up for the movement penalties - Anomoly, Skorp, Spellblade, Tich
- Pure ST fights like Krosus and Augur, MM & BM are so close you can play either.

Keep in mind this is mythic and many fights are handled differently compared to heroic. Also "padding" is almost entirely excluded by warcraftlogs now, so neither spec has any "padding" involved.

[Deleted]

Well on mythic at 99% bm is higher ranked on 4 fights, but the big difference is on the fights where MM is higher, where the difference in the dps is substantial because of multitarget fights where MM excells.

Overall yeah, MM is better, no question about that, but when rngeesus isn't with you as a MM(75%)the gap is way less, and BM is noticable better on ST.

It's not better.. its better at cheesing adds and burst aoe.. gets outclassed single target..

The vast amount of the playerbase will get more damage out of BM

- - - Updated - - -

Mythic NH top 10 parses per boss, hunter spec breakdown;

Skorp top 10 - All MM
Anomoly top 10 - 8 MM, 2 BM
Trilliax top 10 - 3 MM, 3 BM, 4 Surv
Spellblade top 10 - All MM
Tich top 10 - All MM
Augur top 10 - 8 MM, 2 BM
Krosus top 10 - 4 MM, 4 BM, 2 Surv
Botanist top 10 - 6 MM, 3 BM, 1 Surv
Magistrix top 10 - 7 MM, 3 BM
Gul'dan - Not enough logs

- Fights where BM is more represented are those with heavier movement - Trilliax, Krosus, Botanist, Magistrix
- MM basically dominates every other fight, or can abuse marked shot enough to make up for the movement penalties - Anomoly, Skorp, Spellblade, Tich
- Pure ST fights like Krosus and Augur, MM & BM are so close you can play either.

Keep in mind this is mythic and many fights are handled differently compared to heroic. Also "padding" is almost entirely excluded by warcraftlogs now, so neither spec has any "padding" involved.

We gonna act like the top raiders were not all marksmen through EN/TOV.. probably have the top legendaries for mm etc?

BM with shoulders is superior but i am pretty sure most don't have them