Concordance of the Legionfall..see you next expansion...

[rda]

Seems like you don't understand the underlying point of the AP system.

What's not to understand - the point of the AP system is to provide an incentive to do the same content a thousand times over without making new content. No sarcasm, that's why it exists. They want you to keep grinding the same mobs and instances and they designed a system for that where they just slap a couple of numbers every now and then, players are then supposed to celebrate and have a lot of fun going back to the same mobs they already saw to grind them for another thousand hours.

[Glorious Leader]

Basically the people complaining about being forced to grind AP will.simple not be happy until virtually every single avenue for.non raid characther progression is gutted so they never feel forced. What they want is wod and it doesnt matter how unsustainable.that is. These people should obviously be thrown under the bus and it should be done immediately. Their expectations are unrealistic. The last thing that should happen is catering to them.

[dmfg]

Here is "content" you dont need and cant even use. Wow, what a great idea.

It's not content any more than gold is content. It's just some random currency with an in game incentive to obtain it.

Some people enjoy grinding in game currency for its own sake, but I don't and I'm glad there will be even less incentive to do so in TOS.

[rda]

No one gives a fuck about sub count. Even as its absolute lowest, WoW blows other MMO's out of the water. Stick to the subject.

You continue to not give a f***, be my guest. Just notice that all servers are already CRZd, Legion zones are CRZd from the very beginning (a big change from before where zones in actual content were only CRZd at the beginning of the next expansion), that life migrates to a few big superservers with everything else dying out, that the number of people on the PVP ladder reduced significantly instead of growing and you are now queueing into the same team 6 times per evening because nobody is playing, etc, etc, etc.

[MasterHamster]

Basically the people complaining about being forced to grind AP will.simple not be happy until virtually every single avenue for.non raid characther progression is gutted so they never feel forced. What they want is wod and it doesnt matter how unsustainable.that is. These people should obviously be thrown under the bus and it should be done immediately. Their expectations are unrealistic. The last thing that should happen is catering to them.

I think it's fairly obvious by Blizzards communication that they think the system is working out well overall, and are not too keen on the idea of removing the 'grinds', 'chores' etc to repeat the WoD failure anytime soon.

Players feeling they have to run 1000 maw runs to cap is actual issues, but they are addressed by changing how AP is distributed, not by removing the system alltogether like the shortsighted wants.

[coprax]

So Blizzards fix [...] was to ~double your primary stat based on a proc that (for most classes) will sky rocket your dmg.

So you have 11800 int?
I have 40k+, interesting.


Throwing a permanent! 11800agi on my enhancement spec in simcraft results in a 31% increase to dps btw.
Real uptime will be 23% or 2714agi. Resulting in a pitiful 7% dps increase between zero! and 50 traits.

[Glorious Leader]

I think it's fairly obvious by Blizzards communication that they think the system is working out well overall, and are not too keen on the idea of removing the 'grinds', 'chores' etc to repeat the WoD failure anytime soon.

Yea im not convinced. Lore literally said its currently too lucrative. Too lucrative for whom? This sort of incrementalism is just the road back to wod. Balancing the needs and demands of a handful of try hards who should be thrown under the bus against literally everyone else is awful. The developers should ultimately assume no responsibility in this regard. Offer great rewards and let that be it. Basically the premise lore suggested, a goal that you shouldnt feel forced to chase is in principle.fine unless yoire dealing with sociopaths. The current artifact system is a goal no one is forced into and yet here we are with these people

[Deleted]

What was wrong with the cap to begin with ?

[MasterHamster]

Yea im not convinced. Lore literally said its currently too lucrative. Too lucrative for whom? This sort of incrementalism is just the road back to wod. Balancing the needs and demands of a handful of try hards who should be thrown under the bus against literally everyone else is awful. The developers should ultimately assume no responsibility in this regard. Offer great rewards and let that be it.

They probably agree to some extent that the power difference between 34 and 54 is too high and is a boring flat % multiplier, and players stare themselves f'ing blind on "If I had 15% more damage..." not taking any account to gear acquisition meanwhile, or getting more experienced with raid tactics and execution.

My confidence in Blizzard as "long term MMO game designers" took a hit in WoD, as I watched pretty much all systems that kept players busy outside of raids become gutted shadows and award little to no benefits, but the 5 million sub exodus has probably cemented in Blizzards minds that yes, even though players complain about grinds and repetition, it's a necessary evil in MMOs, and having nothing to do is many, many times worse than armchair mythic raiders complaining about all the things they "must do" every week in order to be "competitive".

Good, that means players are incentivized to do this content.

[rda]

Yea im not convinced. Lore literally said its currently too lucrative. Too lucrative for whom? This sort of incrementalism is just the road back to wod. Balancing the needs and demands of a handful of try hards who should be thrown under the bus against literally everyone else is awful. The developers should ultimately assume no responsibility in this regard. Offer great rewards and let that be it.

They are toning down the rewards because people are already calling the game way too grindy and leaving. What they don't get is that toning down the rewards will not make the game not grindy, people will continue to dislike that the grinds are near-infinite and have no new gameplay (= boring) and they will continue to leave, quite rightly. It does not matter much how they tune the rewards. What matters is how varied the grinds are - and they aren't varied at all, they add nearly nothing of the proverbial "content", they just add the numbers for various "levels" of it.

[Jagorath]

I think it's fairly obvious by Blizzards communication that they think the system is working out well overall, and are not too keen on the idea of removing the 'grinds', 'chores' etc to repeat the WoD failure anytime soon.

Players feeling they have to run 1000 maw runs to cap is actual issues, but they are addressed by changing how AP is distributed, not by removing the system alltogether like the shortsighted wants.

But WoD wasn't a failure, sub loses were only because game is really old at this point.

[Goldenboy1]

I'm pretty sure it is you who is not understanding. It is completely optional. You will get better results if you calm down and play your character right. Bads think it is a gear issue were it really is a gear issue for the top 250 players, and then they prove it is not a gear issue at all. If you want to grind, then grind, but arguments about "needing" a certain level of gear to be able to play the game just makes you look stupid.

Amen to you good sir, I was under some illusion that a second Bis legendary would improve my ranks a hell of alot. However, I only went up around 12 or so ranks on most fights. Gear is nice to have but it gets to a point where your player skill is so much more valuable. You really see this in the top rankings, gear means less, skills means more, but luck also means alot more as well in terms of procs.

[Deleted]

They won't, because LITERALLY NO ONE will have that for like, a loooooooooooooooooong time. Something people must not be realizing is that the old 20/20 golden trait went up in cost linearly (first costing something like 1.8 million, then 1.9, then 2, then 2.1 and so on) where as the new one goes up exponentially ( i.e first point might be something like 50 million, next point will be 100 million, next point with be 200 million and so on).

No amount of farming mythic Maw is going to let you cap your weapon until you have like AK 40, and even then its probably going to take you months.

Hyperbole is bad, mmmkay?

Even at AK40 the based on current AP gains a maw would give you around 13.98 million AP each run, and since the combined total of all 101 traits is 159 billion, it will take you 11.3k mythic 10 or higher dungeons. So at that amount, it's not even going to get farmed by the time Argus is out.

[rda]

My confidence in Blizzard as "long term MMO game designers" took a hit in WoD, as I watched pretty much all systems that kept players busy outside of raids become gutted shadows and award little to no benefits, but the 5 million sub exodus has probably cemented in Blizzards minds that yes, even though players complain about grinds and repetition, it's a necessary evil in MMOs, and having nothing to do is many, many times worse than armchair mythic raiders complaining about all the things they "must do" every week in order to be "competitive".

Good, that means players are incentivized to do this content.

No, not good, prepare for the same type of exodus in Legion, because stupid cheap tricks like adding a couple of numbers and saying "here, that's content for you, go spend 500 more hours doing what you have been doing already in order to get to these slightly bigger numbers" don't work.

Again, see D3. Heck, see Korean MMOs. This "model" of delivering content by slapping a couple of numbers on top of the same gameplay was universally scoffed before. Suddenly, it's alright if it happens in Legion. How myopic can you be.

[MasterHamster]

But WoD wasn't a failure, sub loses were only because game is really old at this point.

Can't tell if sarcastic joke or not.

WoD was, in practice due to awful design-choices that killed any longevity, catered to:

People that love leveling alts,
and
People who just wants to log in to raid, and then feel like when they log in next week they haven't fallen behind in any way.

And inbetween was everyone that unsubbed in apathy.

[Raiju]

No, not good, prepare for the same type of exodus in Legion, because stupid cheap tricks like adding a couple of numbers and saying "here, that's content for you, go spend 500 more hours doing what you have been doing already in order to get to these slightly bigger numbers" don't work.

Again, see D3. Heck, see Korean MMOs. This "model" of delivering content by slapping a couple of numbers on top of the same gameplay was universally scoffed before. Suddenly, it's alright if it happens in Legion. How myopic can you be.

But people enjoyed the revamped D3 and Korean MMO's are archetypal as MMO's? It's usually western failures that die after a year that get scoffed.

[MasterHamster]

Even at AK40 the based on current AP gains a maw would give you around 13.98 million AP each run, and since the combined total of all 101 traits is 159 billion, it will take you 11.3k mythic 10 or higher dungeons. So at that amount, it's not even going to get farmed by the time Argus is out.

Which is why they're changing to an exponential increase. Eventually everyone will find their own cap where they feel like nah, the effort to get another trait isn't really worth the effort. This is no different from many other things in the game, and how far people are willing to go. I don't run every single AP or item WQ, yet my nights aren't filled with nightmares of all the AP and potential TF items I could have gotten. I don't feel like I'm behind because I missed an emissary, or didn't kill all world bosses on all my chars.

It's just sad to see that so many people let unrealistic expectations reduce their enjoyment.

[Zeidia]

That's what I find funny about wow community, Half of people want vanilla servers and the other half can't stop complaining about big farms. Meanwhile I'm here, enjoying legion and without anything bad to say about it, if I didn't have to farm to get my 20 points trait and I could target my legends I would't play by now since I'm not a fan of playing 2 different characters at the same time. I like the new big trait and I don't like the new "kadala" but I hope the chance to get a legend from there will be pretty low (like emissary cache) then that would be ok.

[Deleted]

Has anyone actually simmed the numbers? A primary stat increase lasting 10 seconds based on a 1.37 average PPM doesn't seem that broken an advantage to me in comparison to say the current BS where someone with a 35 weapon has basically no chance in comparison to someone with a 54 weapon who will deal exactly 10% more damage than them. People should be glad this is getting fixed (aside from people who bothered to farm 54, I guess)... I'm going to go out on a limb and say the overall DPS % difference between someone with 0/50 Concordance and someone with 50/50 will be almost as negligible as changing your race to get the best DPS. I.e. only the bleeding edge top 100 guilds will actually be asking for it, and the kind of people who play in those guilds have to be the kind of people who actually enjoy spending every waking hour on the game anyway.

[rda]

But people enjoyed the revamped D3 and Korean MMO's are archetypal as MMO's? It's usually western failures that die after a year that get scoffed.

No, they don't, the proof is in the numbers (nobody is playing D3 and nobody is playing Korean MMOs apart from Koreans / Chinese).

People enjoyed changes to D3 in D3 ROS, yes. That didn't last. Blizzard stopped adding content, so people went away.