Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[Jokerfiend]

the world first race, is not made by blizz, and has been said by blizz to not really be healthy for players, reason why they removed world/realm first races/classes/proffesions

Then why is there an achievement for it?

[Armourboy]

Well, to be fair, it is Blizzard's fault they have to do a lot of shit to be raid ready. They designed the game. There's no way around it. If you wanna clear mythics, even compete in the world first race, you have to no-life poopsock your way through this. The only choice they have is to give up the mythic world first race. That is what more and more guilds opt to do and I can honestly understand their frustration. If you want to achieve a certain goal, there are certain things you are forced to do.

Replying to this with idiotic replys like "no you are never forced to do anything, you choose what you do" is really pointless. The only choice these players have is whether they want to give up their goals or not.

Actually the point is if every guild out there decided it was stupid to play this way and just played normally then the " world first " race would be months long rather than a week or two. Frankly whether people like it or not, I think Blizzard is purposely trying to persuade as much as possible away from this style of play, to make mythic an actual progression rather than an all out race.

[Deleted]

the world first race, is not made by blizz, and has been said by blizz to not really be healthy for players, reason why they removed world/realm first races/classes/proffesions

And I really have no love for people who pursue the world first race anyway to be honest. But Blizzard is still making the game, and they know what people will be required to do in order to compete in the world first race. Guilds are just doing whatever they have to do in the system that Blizzard created.

[Raiju]

hahahahahaha, you won't get past the dps check of krosus/tichondrius/star augur etraeus nevermind clearing past the first three on mythic, keep dreaming friend.

Krosus dps check is only 610k~ - if you can't do that with 45 traits you're never doing star augur anyway.

[Deleted]

Actually the point is if every guild out there decided it was stupid to play this way and just played normally then the " world first " race would be months long rather than a week or two. Frankly whether people like it or not, I think Blizzard is purposely trying to persuade as much as possible away from this style of play, to make mythic an actual progression rather than an all out race.

Yeah if every athlete decided to just not take steroids, nobody would be forced to take steroids and we wouldn't have to ban steroids.

If every guild decided to take it easy, slow down, play it casually, then some guild would figure out that they could easily win the race by going hardcore, as they would be the only ones to go hardcore.

[RobertoCarlos]

Anyone who approaches the AP system with some sense of sanity its not that big of a deal.

I agree with Ion on this issue. The community sets insane standards for content that is not really that difficult. Yet everyone wants it to be done as easily as possible.

The AP grind is a constant progression path not something you try complete in the first month.

[Super Kami Dende]

There are both in the world of Mythic Raiding. Most well reasoned people aren't giving a shit what someone else does. Then again, you have the skilled but crazy guys that go fuck nuts and retard strong for Mythic progression.

I call a bit of bullshit, because some of the accomplishments are literally about being first in progression. If they happened to down GulDaddy first you guarantee they would brag about it.

Yeah, I should've made t more clear in my post, I wasn't saying "wrong" no one does it for the race, just that wrong not everyone does it for the race.

[Deleted]

Ok but look.

With RNG on top of RNG, Legendary system, AP grind, world questing being 24h cycle (not 25 dailies per day thing anymore) - there is something that blizzard does bit wrong there too.

I mean yeah, for non-mythic or non-worldfirsters not much of these are really important.

But when you can get your BiS relic from like Eye of Azshara +15 titanforged, what else you gonna do if you wanna be world first? Run that place to death with other peoples keys. Oh Nighthold drops too much Versatility cloth? Better go back to ToV and EN and hope for those 900 titanforges! Even world quests can sometimes give you better stuff if its titanforged enough.

Now imagine if there was no titanforging. the BiS gear would come from raids, usually the newest or one tier below it.
Mythic raiders wouldnt need to run EN or mythic+ in hopes of RNG titanforged trinkets and relics etc. That would be huge part of the "routine" taken away, giving time to actually have downtime.

Titanforging is "fun and cool surprise" for most people, but "a must" for people who need to push it to the top.

I'd rather have the old "upgrade" system back where you would get upgrade currency from content the gear is from. At least then, you wouldnt have to cross fingers and pray for old gods.

AP, while not the biggest hurdle in this expansion if you played from day 1, is still something you "have" to keep up with specially with alts in play. At least you can now send tomes for AK.

And not to mention legendaries.. I've seen people just re-roll same class because its easier to get 2 first legendaries than try to get 4th or 6th legendary. And for some classes the difference can go from "clunky and low dps" to "spec fixing and roflstomper". At least in eyes of top enders.


Not to mention 7.2. came out on PTR with raid testing almost as soon as M Gul'dan was down.


Yeah lets put huge part of blame on guilds, eh?

[IceMan1763]

Actually the point is if every guild out there decided it was stupid to play this way and just played normally then the " world first " race would be months long rather than a week or two. Frankly whether people like it or not, I think Blizzard is purposely trying to persuade as much as possible away from this style of play, to make mythic an actual progression rather than an all out race.

You can't fight human nature... this xpac is proving that over and over and over and over again.

[Super Kami Dende]

because people HATE WITH A FUCKING PASSION personal loot, and ion has said he has wanted to, but there is no way to do it without hurting legit players
also what item is the "garunteed item" do you mean eventually a boss will just drop every item every kill? and it will just become a count down...

and no, people hate personal loot because alot of the time you do a boss, and 4 people get gear who wont use it, but cant trade it, and the other 16 people just have to accept "nothing dropped this boss" where the old loot systems where much more forgiving...

the issue is with that kind of system, yes you stop split runs, but you make gearing up for actual players take a million times longer, punishing them

Myself personally, I love Personal loot. But I understand your point and why others wouldn't. But I guess that is why Masterloot was kept for guilds that disliked it.

[KaPe]

Yeah, with people in the previous Raids gear. Its nearly as if people that Progressed normally would have higher ilvl meaning higher DPS by the time they got to that point.

SHOCKING RIGHT?!

You do realize how gearing works in Legion, right? Those people didn't have "previous raids gear". Early guilds did multiple split runs, thus having all the stuff they needed from heroics. Later guilds got the same through multiple clears. Both of those groups had titanforged drops, which are even higher level than standard mythic loot. It's entire possible to be in "next raids gear" before it even comes out. Cutting Edge raiders were never as geared entering Mythic as they are in Legion.

Not only that, but Paragon traits are % based. Meaning, the better gear you have, the better they are - so you still need to cap them eventually, for maximum benefit. It's one of the reason new traits are changed to static bonuses.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Wow just wow. To place the blame for peoples burnout on the raid leader is just uncomprehenable. Guess they dont get to decide whether to play or not to play and are forced. Bad move on Ion.

[IceMan1763]

lololol ok call them, tell them your idea, and how it will work to satisfy 90% of the community, im sure you are so genius they will hire you right away!

They couldn't afford me... plus the dev team is clearly filled with idiots so I'd get the job easily.

[Super Kami Dende]

Leave WQs in the game. Remove AP/AK. Tie player power to gear alone.

Yeah no thanks, I enjoy AP/AK. Mostly since I have self-control and don't flip out over trivial shit. But keep up that victim complex bro. BLIZZARD IS WORKING AGAINST YOU. FITE DA SYSTUM!!

[Jokerfiend]

Actually the point is if every guild out there decided it was stupid to play this way and just played normally then the " world first " race would be months long rather than a week or two. Frankly whether people like it or not, I think Blizzard is purposely trying to persuade as much as possible away from this style of play, to make mythic an actual progression rather than an all out race.

Of course they are! Think about it, you have a set of the playerbase that can literally no life the content, and bash through months of supposedly gated content, and rub their nuts in the devs faces.

No matter what the devs do, there will always be bleeding edge. But it's the constant developer fight, and not for the playerbase to even worry about unless it's popularized and made into propaganda. Basically, the bleeding edge is romanticized, mimicking real life.

[Shakari]

Because it's the players' fault Blizzard wants to make sure Jimmy McCasualfaggot has the illusion of limitless content at the expense of people wanting to clear content at a reasonable pace not gated by time commitment? Fuck you for supporting this mentality even more than Blizzard for creating it.

Ahhhhh the special snowflake syndrome rears its ugly head....

To use your own arguement against you ....Your saying you want instant content that you can grind like a idiot so you can then clear that content as quickly as possible and then whine that there's not enough content ..... just like that past expansions .... hmmm not so smart lol because lets face it, you'd be grinding anyway regardless of what Blizz did, be it LFR, Mythics etc for ANYTHING that would give you an advantage, that's the hardcore mentality.

So whining about this new "grind" that you actually force upon yourself is really a moot point, its the same shit but in a different form in a new expansion.

Also the point being .. Blizz design for the majority of players not the small minority .... and hardcore raiders and definitely the minority, given only a small number of people actually raid at all relative to the number of total players.

[Super Kami Dende]

They couldn't afford me... plus the dev team is clearly filled with idiots so I'd get the job easily.

Did you just call yourself an expensive idiot?

[Sithalos]

He's 100% right.

Blizzard doesn't force people to play 24/7.

[Jokerfiend]

He's 100% right.

Blizzard doesn't force people to play 24/7.

But it's what you need to do to complete firsts.

So if Blizzard doesn't want it to happen, then why design for it?

[Monstercloud]

Blizzard doesn't force people to play 24/7.

No, they just incentive you to play as much as possible... which is kind of their job as game designers. They don't want you to cancel your subscription because you want to play other games/MMOs.