Deceased US Navy Seal's Father Refuses to meet Trump

[Stacyrect]

Pretty sad that Trump can't just bite the bullet and take the blame for it. Not like you're going to face any sort of real consequences of it... soldiers die under the President's orders all the time. But no he needs to lash out and blame everyone but himself. His narcissism won't let him see that him taking the blame for it and actually showing some fucking humanity for once will go a lot farther than continuing to drag the issue out and blame others.

You're the commander in chief bozo, start acting like it. I realize you wanted a Osama moment a week into your presidency but it didn't happen. Admit it and move on.

I don't think the raid in itself was a bad idea, as far as military matters go.

I think the decision to continue with the mission, after it was apparent that the militia there had been tipped off, is a fair criticism.

We aren't privy to the intelligence that suggested why the raid would be a good idea in the first place so we don't know to any specific extent what they actually thought they were going to find there. I imagine it must have been of some significance.

If not, why bother with going to raid it in the first place.

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Which doesn't change anything that I've said. I mean, they knew Bin Laden's name prior to Obama's presidency as well...

No, it doesn't. But I think assigning the kill to Osama bin laden entirely to the Obama admin is dishonest. While true the discovery of the compound and the operation happened on Obama's watch, it was a culmination of intelligence from both presidencies that were ultimately responsible.

[Orange Joe]

Not going to be popular opinion, but...

The father is probably in some sort of state of delusional grief.

War roulette engaged and landed on his son. I'm not exactly sure why the father thought his son was immune to the wheel of fate.

I would even go as far as to say he is dishonoring the memory of his son. He died a warriors death and if the son was around to say something he would probably say he wouldn't have it any other way. You don't join the SEALs because you are just a passerby in the military like some soldiers.

These guys are the tip of the fucking spear.

Killing children is a warriors death?

[Dug]

I don't think the raid in itself was a bad idea, as far as military matters go.

I think the decision to continue with the mission, after it was apparent that the militia there had been tipped off, is a fair criticism.

We aren't privy to the intelligence that suggested why the raid would be a good idea in the first place so we don't know to any specific extent what they actually thought they were going to find there. I imagine it must have been of some significance.

If not, why bother with going to raid it in the first place.

Not claiming it was a terrible idea. Certainly this was in the planning stages in the Obama administration so there must have been some sort of importance to the raid but the final say so was with Trump. With that being the case he should hold the responsibility and show some sympathy to the father of the fallen seal and loss of civilian life. We also don't know what if anything the mission did accomplish outside of those deaths. Calling it a rousing success when we have dead children and soldiers is going to raise eyebrows from people when that's all the information we have to go on. Blaming others for the losses is the real problem here.

[TITAN308]

Killing children is a warriors death?

Whatever it is I seriously doubt you'll have any concept in your entire lifetime what it is.

Was that an edgy enough reply for your edgy question?

/tips hat

[Orange Joe]

Whatever it is I seriously doubt you'll have any concept in your entire lifetime what it is.

Was that an edgy enough reply for your edgy question?

/tips hat

Not going to be popular opinion, but...

The father is probably in some sort of state of delusional grief.

War roulette engaged and landed on his son. I'm not exactly sure why the father thought his son was immune to the wheel of fate.

I would even go as far as to say he is dishonoring the memory of his son.

You don't join the SEALs because you are just a passerby in the military like some soldiers.

And I'm the edgy one. lmfao. All I did was stat a fact.

[TITAN308]

And I'm the edgy one. lmfao. All I did was stat a fact.

Sure buddy. Whatever floats your boat.

[Stacyrect]

Not claiming it was a terrible idea. Certainly this was in the planning stages in the Obama administration so there must have been some sort of importance to the raid but the final say so was with Trump. With that being the case he should hold the responsibility and show some sympathy to the father of the fallen seal and loss of civilian life. We also don't know what if anything the mission did accomplish outside of those deaths. Calling it a rousing success when we have dead children and soldiers is going to raise eyebrows from people when that's all the information we have to go on. Blaming others for the losses is the real problem here.

Well, to be fair, Trump is not the one who gathered the intel or organized the assault. His job is simply to approve or disapprove of such things. If the information he's been given is inherently bad, like it was in this case, then he's right to point at others and say bad job.

As far as I am aware he has given a lot of sympathy to the family, as he not only personally flew out to pay his respects in person to the fallen soldier but to his family as well.

Calling it a success is really just based on what they found. So far not so good. They have defined it as a success but the only thing publicly they have to show for it is a 9 year old bomb making video, a dead service member and some others wounded, and a few AQ big wigs dead.

This was a late night raid on a moonless night. They did intercept some radio traffic from the compound that talked about hearing aircraft overhead but that was hours before these seals actually got to the compound. It's one thing to be suspicious but I think they were 100% tipped off because they laid an ambush for these seals. They let them enter the compound and surrounded them. Their are reports of female combatants and we are well aware that AQ uses children as shields and other nefarious acts. Most of the civilian deaths there were from the resulting air support that got called in.

What raises an eyebrow to me is that this is an Obama originated operation which has so far yielded an embarrassing lack of evidence. The fact these guys were tipped off also raises a big eyebrow. The staffers that were arrested for unauthorized access to intelligence committee data and the constant leaks coming out of the white house also raise very big eye brows.

[Dug]

What raises an eyebrow to me is that this is an Obama originated operation which has so far yielded an embarrassing lack of evidence. The fact these guys were tipped off also raises a big eyebrow. The staffers that were arrested for unauthorized access to intelligence committee data and the constant leaks coming out of the white house also raise very big eye brows.

Sorry maybe I'm reading too much into this but are you suspecting the WH leakers tipped off AQ?

[Poopymonster]

Let me understand this...

Random state department workers die while HRC is secretary and it's her fault forever let's crucify her and talk about it til kingdom come. VS. Trump orders an ill advised raid that accomplishes nothing, kills civilians, and wastes the life of an elite American soldier, and that's cool? Imagine if HRC was president and this happened. BEN GHAZI 2.0 WALL TO WALL COVERAGE EVERYONE PANIC. Trump and his supporters can fuck right off about media bias. As much shit as they're giving him, it's still not enough.

But her Emails

[Daelak]

Sorry maybe I'm reading too much into this but are you suspecting the WH leakers tipped off AQ?

Yeah, he did, he also is implicating Obama in saying that there was an incoming attack.

[Felya]

Well, to be fair, Trump is not the one who gathered the intel or organized the assault. His job is simply to approve or disapprove of such things. If the information he's been given is inherently bad, like it was in this case, then he's right to point at others and say bad job.

Did both Obama and Trump receive the same intelligence? Did Obama have an opportunity to sign it? Who did sign it? I don't understand how it's others fault, for Trump doing what Obama didn't, based what you claim is the same information. Does Obama get to credit the same intelligence for not signing it, that now Trump can blame for signing it? WTF?

I will repeat, the same bad intelligence, did not lead Obama to sign it. It's someone else's fault that Trump chose to do, what his predecessors didn't?

As far as I am aware he has given a lot of sympathy to the family, as he not only personally flew out to pay his respects in person to the fallen soldier but to his family as well.

So did Hillary, yet it didn't stop Trump from exploiting a grieving widow to regurgitate Benghazi.

Calling it a success is really just based on what they found. So far not so good. They have defined it as a success but the only thing publicly they have to show for it is a 9 year old bomb making video, a dead service member and some others wounded, and a few AQ big wigs dead.

It's mission accomplished... we've been through this, on a bigger scale not too long ago...

This was a late night raid on a moonless night. They did intercept some radio traffic from the compound that talked about hearing aircraft overhead but that was hours before these seals actually got to the compound. It's one thing to be suspicious but I think they were 100% tipped off because they laid an ambush for these seals. They let them enter the compound and surrounded them. Their are reports of female combatants and we are well aware that AQ uses children as shields and other nefarious acts. Most of the civilian deaths there were from the resulting air support that got called in.

I don't think anyone questioned the limits of your imagination in convincing your self to defend Trump.

What raises an eyebrow to me is that this is an Obama originated operation which has so far yielded an embarrassing lack of evidence. The fact these guys were tipped off also raises a big eyebrow. The staffers that were arrested for unauthorized access to intelligence committee data and the constant leaks coming out of the white house also raise very big eye brows.

Do you think that lack of evidence was why Obama didn't sign it? Does Trump's advisor resigning due lying raise any eyebrows?

[Blur4stuff]

republicans are full of shit on this one if they defend Trump after the way they went spastic over Hillary and Benghazi

had Hillary been president and done the same things as Trump, this would have been about the 11th event republicans would try to impeach her over

[Felya]

republicans are full of shit on this one if they defend Trump after the way they went spastic over Hillary and Benghazi

While the Benghazi issue was the difference between a "terrorist attack" and "an act of terror". Different opinion of a successful mission between a grieving father and a president who signed off on what even his defense calls faulty intelligence, is significantly different.

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Yeah, he did, he also is implicating Obama in saying that there was an incoming attack.

What are the odds he realizes that his argument is that Trump had a successful mission, despite faulty intelligence. At no point connecting the dots that the same mission cannot be both, an intelligence failure and a Trump success.

[Stacyrect]

Sorry maybe I'm reading too much into this but are you suspecting the WH leakers tipped off AQ?

Yes and no. It's definitely a possibility. They have been unsuccessful in apprehending these leakers so far. So while we definitely have a person or persons none to happy with the Trump admin and happy to leak details, even comically leaking a meeting about leaking as it was happening. Their also exists the possibility that information of this raid could have been leaked as well. It's definitely a stretch. But like I said, it raises an eyebrow.

[Zan15]

let me understand this...

Random state department workers die while hrc is secretary and it's her fault forever let's crucify her and talk about it til kingdom come. Vs. Trump orders an ill advised raid that accomplishes nothing, kills civilians, and wastes the life of an elite american soldier, and that's cool? Imagine if hrc was president and this happened. Ben ghazi 2.0 wall to wall coverage everyone panic. Trump and his supporters can fuck right off about media bias. As much shit as they're giving him, it's still not enough.

this

/10 char

[Kiri]

I will repeat, the same bad intelligence, did not lead Obama to sign it. It's someone else's fault that Trump chose to do, what his predecessors didn't?

As far as I know, Obama could not conduct this raid since they were waiting for a monnless night and the next one would happen after his term was over. Hence he could not do it under optimal conditions and left it to Trump to make the final call.

Yes and no. It's definitely a possibility. They have been unsuccessful in apprehending these leakers so far. So while we definitely have a person or persons none to happy with the Trump admin and happy to leak details, even comically leaking a meeting about leaking as it was happening. Their also exists the possibility that information of this raid could have been leaked as well. It's definitely a stretch. But like I said, it raises an eyebrow.

I am sure all these Russia allegations also 'raise your eyebrows' at the very least then? Because otherwise it would just be hypocritical to say that now.

[Glorious Leader]

The "buck" stops somewhere else apparently.

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Unfortunately trump is the president.

Remember when republicans used to be the party of personal accountabiity? Pepperidge farm remembers...

[Halicia]

"He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured."

Trump blames MIA/KIA as being "bad soldiers", when they were simply following bad orders. Or sometimes, just bad stuff happens.

The father of the soldier doesn't want to meet the man that killed and blamed his son. Big surprise.

Heck, if he *wanted* to meet Trump, I'd hate to be working Secret Service that day.

[Stacyrect]

Did both Obama and Trump receive the same intelligence? Did Obama have an opportunity to sign it? Who did sign it? I don't understand how it's others fault, for Trump doing what Obama didn't, based what you claim is the same information. Does Obama get to credit the same intelligence for not signing it, that now Trump can blame for signing it? WTF?

I will repeat, the same bad intelligence, did not lead Obama to sign it. It's someone else's fault that Trump chose to do, what his predecessors didn't?



So did Hillary, yet it didn't stop Trump from exploiting a grieving widow to regurgitate Benghazi.



It's mission accomplished... we've been through this, on a bigger scale not too long ago...



I don't think anyone questioned the limits of your imagination in convincing your self to defend Trump.



Do you think that lack of evidence was why Obama didn't sign it? Does Trump's advisor resigning due lying raise any eyebrows?

Have no idea if they received same intelligence

The mission would have happened under Obama admin, but they waited for the next moonless night, which was under the Trump admin

So far, the intelligence that suggested something was of worth to be had at the compound has so far shown itself at least publicly to be of little worth. So yes, if you are given inherently bad information suggesting that something is of worth to warrant a raid and that turns out to not be the case, then yes Trump should be blaming others. Shit rolls down hill, not up.

I dunno, I haven't viewed the intelligence, cant say. What is known is that the raid would have happened under the Obama admin, they were just waiting for moonless night.

Hillary offered condolences for victims of Benghazi? Where? I've only read reports of her accusing the victims parents of being liars for saying she lied about benghazi, which released emails indicate she did or at the least wasn't entirely truthful about it.

I wouldn't say it was an 'accomplished mission' given what we publicly know. As a person not intimate to details unknown to the public their is likely a lot I don't know. With what we know publicly, I'd say a drone strike was the better method then sending in a raid.

What part was imaginary? Do you think our most elite special forces just make a habbit of doing stupid shit like getting surrounded by enemy forces or what? Aside from trying to take a (childish) cheap shot at me, what exactly are you talking about?

No, lack of evidence wasn't the reason Obama didn't go through with it, the decision was based on having a moonless night.

As far as Flynn goes, it did but not in the way you are probably suggesting. The FBI isn't bringing forth criminal charges as nothing was "illegal or improper" and from what I understand the controversy over Flynn and the discussion of russian sanctions was a topic brought up by kislyak which really wasn't anymore then a question and brief answer. As far as I'm aware their wasn't any promises or in depth discussions over russian sanctions. His resignation however is probably attributed to the fact that he stated sanctions were never discussed, when they were, however briefly.

What raised my eyebrows on that was that Flynn, Trump, and others were all private citizens during the campaign and were actively spied upon. So whatever/whenever was discussed with Russia is on tape, so if the campaign had done anything illegal they would have been charged with it.

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As far as I know, Obama could not conduct this raid since they were waiting for a monnless night and the next one would happen after his term was over. Hence he could not do it under optimal conditions and left it to Trump to make the final call.



I am sure all these Russia allegations also 'raise your eyebrows' at the very least then? Because otherwise it would just be hypocritical to say that now.

Any conversation between the Trump campaign and Russia was definitely being listened to by FBI/NSA and given that they aren't pursuing any criminal charges against anyone in the campaign, I'm assuming their is nothing scandal worthy

[Kiri]

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Any conversation between the Trump campaign and Russia was definitely being listened to by FBI/NSA and given that they aren't pursuing any criminal charges against anyone in the campaign, I'm assuming their is nothing scandal worthy

The investigation is still underway, just like that into that military operation. No conclusive remarks are made yet and no criminal charges. So not treating them the same way is disingenuous.