EU Lawmakers starting down a slippery slope

[Deleted]

The joke goes back to Monty Python at least, probably before then. Farage's schtick is not original.

This is one of the problems when you have people from different cultures deciding on what is acceptable, as one man's piss take is another's man's xenophobia. That two posters on here with a decent grasp of English don't realise it is an old joke, is somewhat damning.

Oh, the larger context is understood as a joke, I think. To any outside observer Belgium always seems to be at the brink of splitting apart too. Belgium's artificial nature as a buffer zone is par for course in European banter. As is their country being essentially forgettable, for lack of a cohesive origin myth.
The "non-country" bit just seems to me oddly specific, and invokes Farage's remarks, which came from a very non joking place. Rompuy's remarks were taken seriously, and incensed the debate over self-governing, sovereignty, globalism, etc. So I'm less willing to take that as a joke. Other implementations I'm fine with; that one I'm more inclined to scrutinize (and might -context dependent- end up thinking of it as a joke).

To answer your question in clear terms: I don't think it's xenophobic. But I will raise an eyebrow. Then it's all a mater of you having the character or charisma to pull the joke well.

[namecraft]

europe has lawmakers? so that´s why so many people want to leave the union

[Kalis]

Oh, the larger context is understood as a joke, I think. To any outside observer Belgium always seems to be at the brink of splitting apart too. Belgium's artificial nature as a buffer zone is par for course in European banter. As is their country being essentially forgettable, for lack of a cohesive origin myth.
The "non-country" bit just seems to me oddly specific, and invokes Farage's remarks, which came from a very non joking place. Rompuy's remarks were taken seriously, and incensed the debate over self-governing, sovereignty, globalism, etc. So I'm less willing to take that as a joke. Other implementations I'm fine with; that one I'm more inclined to scrutinize (and might -context dependent- end up thinking of it as a joke).

To answer your question in clear terms: I don't think it's xenophobic. But I will raise an eyebrow. Then it's all a mater of you having the character or charisma to pull the joke well.

I was referencing Farage, but Belgium is the butt of jokes because it is so famously (or infamously, if you prefer) dull. His comment wouldn't have worked if the person had been Dutch, French, or whatever, and it hasn't really got anything to do with Belgian politics, it was a British cultural reference.

[Deleted]

I need to go to those forums then, because I've never seen that criticism leveled in any forum elsewhere. Slavoy might be the only visible critic of the EU I've ever seen on the Left.

You don't need forums. They're out in the open, in parliaments through Europe, and even running Greece.

[Triks]

I need to go to those forums then, because I've never seen that criticism leveled in any forum elsewhere. Slavoy might be the only visible critic of the EU I've ever seen on the Left.

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I suppose their voice gets drowned out by the Laurie Penny set.

Austerity, neo-liberalism, corporativism and the pandering to large multi-nationals.

The EU's economic policies are straight out of the Chicago school's textbooks.

[Theodarzna]

Austerity, neo-liberalism, corporativism and the pandering to large multi-nationals.

The EU's economic policies are straight out of the Chicago school's textbooks.

Which is why it puzzles me so to see ostensibly left wing people so devoted to it.

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Pretty much.

Jeremy Corbyn has been anti-EU for his entire political career, until he became leader of the Labour Party, then begrudgingly supported Remain as the party is mainly centrist. I would put money on him having voted Leave.

As far as Britain goes, it is damaging to the working classes, as it brings in cheap labour at their expense. I am not working class, so it doesn't affect me, but you get the likes of Zelk on here who is very old school left wing and they hate the EU.

Corbyn always looked like a hostage when he was advocating for Remain.

[Triks]

Which is why it puzzles me so to see ostensibly left wing people so devoted to it.

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Corbyn always looked like a hostage when he was advocating for Remain.

It's normal - the EU also advocates internationalism and multiculturalism. Those are classic pillars of leftist philosophy, even though they are the bedrock of free-market capitalism.

It's not black and white. The EU as a whole has always been center-right in terms of politics and center-left in terms of economics.

[Kalis]

Which is why it puzzles me so to see ostensibly left wing people so devoted to it.

They are modern left wing, which is not the old school left wing that you seem to be mixing them up with.

The old school left wingers are a handful of miserable gits and students in Che Guevara t-shirts, who haven't had a sniff of power in years, they are effectively extinct as a political force outside of places like Cuba.

[JohnBrown1917]

Austerity, neo-liberalism, corporativism and the pandering to large multi-nationals.

The EU's economic policies are straight out of the Chicago school's textbooks.

Yup, plenty of European left wing(not center left) are soft euroskpetic.
Our 2 most left wing party, the SP(Socialists) and Party for the animals(green socialists??) are (soft) euro-skeptic.


But unlike our far right crazies, the SP party wants to change the EU, not leave it.

[Triks]

They are modern left wing, which is not the old school left wing that you seem to be mixing them up with.

The old school left wingers are a handful of miserable gits and students in Che Guevara t-shirts, who haven't had a sniff of power in years, they are effectively extinct as a political force outside of places like Cuba.

I don't consider them so much left-wing as progresivists. It's also not surprising for young people to be pro-globalisation, pro-open borders and pro-social spending because we benefit from it via programs such as ERASMUS and various EU job initiatives.

[Kalis]

Corbyn always looked like a hostage when he was advocating for Remain.

He is happiest holding a placard, calling for everything to be nationalised or supporting the IRA/Hamas/Castro, he is so out of his depth.

Even as a Conservative I realise he is no good for Britain, as no effective opposition will lead to complacency amongst the Tories and I still remember how that went under John Major.

[urasim]

Which is why it puzzles me so to see ostensibly left wing people so devoted to it.

There's a divide in the left. People like me, a classical liberal, are against the EU. But you'll see others on the left who are for it. These people tend to also be for things like communism.

[Kalis]

I don't consider them so much left-wing as progresivists. It's also not surprising for young people to be pro-globalisation, pro-open borders and pro-social spending because we benefit from it via programs such as ERASMUS and various EU job initiatives.

What gets me are the ones who are pro-open borders and pro-national healthcare, without realising the former will destroy the latter. The mainstream left wing is progressives nowadays, socialism is dead.

[JohnBrown1917]

The actual left wing parties in Europe are mostly AGAINST the EU, so now you got educated a bit, you are welcome.

Our most pro-EU party, D66(liberals) are center to center right. So hardly left wing.

[Triks]

I'd argue the mere existence of the internet is also a good reason for that. Young people meet and become friends with people from all corners of the world nowadays. That alone leaves them a lot of room to question 'national borders'.

Yeah you do have a point. From what I remember from his videos, Preach's guild master (Greek) went to visit him over in England for a couple of days.

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What gets me are the ones who are pro-open borders and pro-national healthcare, without realising the former will destroy the latter. The mainstream left wing is progressives nowadays, socialism is dead.

That also doesn't make sense. You can' have healthcare for people who don't pay in via taxes or pay contributions.

[JohnBrown1917]

There's a divide in the left. People like me, a classical liberal, are against the EU. But you'll see others on the left who are for it. These people tend to also be for things like communism.

??? Classic liberals tend be the center-right parties?


Infact, its the few communist parties left in Europa who seem to be the most anti-EU. Socialist parties also don't don't be love the EU that much.

[urasim]

??? Classic liberals tend be the center-right parties?

If you say so, it must be true!

I'm not near the right, but thanks for telling me what I believe in.

[Kalis]

That also doesn't make sense. You can' have healthcare for people who don't pay in via taxes or pay contributions.

Welcome to Britain, we won't check your entitlement to use our free-at-point-of-use healthcare, because we are fucking idiots and doing so would be racist. Oh yeah, we also won't check your entitlement to free education.

Go on the Guardian and you will see people calling for open borders and moaning about how much stress the NHS/schools/housing is under in the same post, they live in a fantasy world.

[JohnBrown1917]

If you say so, it must be true!

I'm not near the right, but thanks for telling me what I believe in.

Then i'm sure you can name plenty of Liberal left wing parties in Europa.
I'm not saying your right wing, i'm saying liberal parties are not left wing.

[Kalis]

Then i'm sure you can name plenty of Liberal left wing parties in Europa.
I'm not saying your right wing, i'm saying liberal parties are not left wing.

Liberal Democrats and the Blairite wing of the Labour Party refer to themselves as liberals, both in the UK.