UK will have to give up all EU perks after Brexit, François Hollande warns

[Kalis]

The UK.

You need to name another, as otherwise your answer makes no sense in the context of my post.

Since they took part in the decision making for the spending of those sums and thus have responsibilities for a few more years.

Then we should also get our rebates and other sums we could reasonably have expected for those same periods, which would bring any figure down considerably. Or does it only work one way, like the call for fair treatment of citizens?

[Noradin]

The key point here is that this was done without the consensus of the UK electorate. Previous UK governments are the ones at fault here, from the time they took the UK into the EEC and the first EU referendum they failed to explain to the UK electorate what this would eventually entail (remember there was no internet back then so information was not easy to come by like it is today). The UK government then championed for the expansion eastwards of the EU purely to get access to cheaper labour for their businesses, again without the consent of the UK electorate. And people wonder why the UK voted they way it did when they got the first chance in over 40 years to really give their view on the UK relationship with the EU.

If it was done by the UK government then it was with the consent of the UK electorate by definition.
The UK is a democracy, is it not? (Honestly, I think it doesn't really look like it is a functional one with its FPTP system.)
If it is one then by definiton the electorate gives consent to the elected government to make decisions on their behalf.
In advance. That is how it works.

[Turaska]

I voted to remain, that said, people really underestimate how much money the UK has tucked away if it really wants. If you believe the media (which you shouldn't) you'd believe that the UK would sink the moment it left the EU, the fact of the matter is the UK's future is uncertain. All of the business traders etc from around the world using British banks and indeed London as a business hub don't seem to think it's going to sink, they're all happily still trading away like nothing is going to happen.

In cases like this I tend to follow the money and as far as I can see the money is still happily floating around the UK. The main issue with what I'm going to post below is maintaining trade deals, if the UK maintains trade deals, literally no valid reason it can't thrive on its own.

To list but a few of the things the UK was exporting during 2016

Machinery including computers: US$60.3 billion (14.7% of total exports)
Vehicles : $51.7 billion (12.6%)
Pharmaceuticals: $32.6 billion (8%)
Gems, precious metals: $27.5 billion (6.7%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $27.1 billion (6.6%)
Mineral fuels including oil: $26.2 billion (6.4%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $20.7 billion (5.1%)
Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $17.2 billion (4.2%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $11.2 billion (2.7%)
Organic chemicals: $10.8 billion (2.6%)

"United Kingdom shipped US$408.9 billion worth of goods around the globe in 2016, up by 13.7% since 2009 when the Great Recession kicked in but down by -12.3% from 2015 to 2016.

United Kingdom’s top 10 exports accounted for more than two-thirds (69.8%) of the overall value of its global shipments.

Based on statistics from the International Monetary Fund’s World Economic Outlook Database, United Kingdom’s total Gross Domestic Product amounted to $2.778 trillion as of November 2016. Therefore, exports account for about 14.7% of total UK economic output.

From a continental perspective, 54.3% of UK exports by value are delivered to other European trade partners while 21.2% are sold to Asian importers. United Kingdom ships another 16.7% to North America and just 2.8% to Africa.

Given United Kingdom’s population of 64.4 million people, its total $408.9 billion in 2016 exports translates to roughly 6,300 for every resident in that country.

United Kingdom’s unemployment rate was 4.8% as of December 2016 down from 5.1% one year earlier, according to Trading Economics."

[Noblia]

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-at-bad-moment

I agree with Hollande 100%. UK brought itself in a very bad position with that retarded unfortunate choice of theirs. I think they didn't bet on Trump winning, but even if they were right its a step backwards.



The future is in unions and not in divisions. UK must not be allowed to leave AND keep the privilege of accessing the single market. It will only fuel the fire of the EU skeptic parties.

I also foresee a lot of drama within the Kingdom. I am not sure how Scotland will react when their products and services will have a hefty tax on them to export in EU.

What do you guys think? Should UK be allowed to keep the whole pie?

England chose it own country over being ruled by a bunch of fucking bureaucrats in fucking Germany. England will not have to do anything to appease the fucking retarded leaches from the EU. The EU is just extremely butt hurt because they are realizing that their little cabal of elitist jerks is heading for a nosedive. There has never been this level of unemployment in euroblocks until we look back before WWII. The EU should never of happened the way it did. It should have come around organically, instead of being pushed by people worse than toxic drug pushers.

[Noradin]

Then we should also get our rebates and other sums we could reasonably have expected for those same periods, which would bring any figure down considerably. Or does it only work one way, like the call for fair treatment of citizens?

Those are already accounted for in that sum.

[Kalis]

In my opinion, it isn't. Civilisation has to comply to certain standards, which quite a few southern countries do not do.

You seem like something of a supremacist.

Ever seen the difference between a hospital in Italy/Greece/Spain/etc. and one in The Netherlands/Germany/Sweden/etc.? What about the roads? Or average individual debt? Or criminal statistics? Or integration?

Sweden is a prime example of how not to do integration.

As for infrastructure, that entirely depends on the area in all countries, some parts of Greece are great, some areas of Holland are shitholes, swings and roundabouts. Or do the shitty parts of your country not count somehow?

- - - Updated - - -

Those are already accounted for in that sum.

Then they can do one. There is zero chance a Tory administration would authorise payment of €60bn to the EU, in exhange for a sum of that size we would want something in return, like Corsica and the Algarve.

[Cizr]

Freedom is worth it.
Pro EU fearmongers are trying to act like not being in EU is end of the world.

[Rockyreg]

If it was done by the UK government then it was with the consent of the UK electorate by definition.
The UK is a democracy, is it not? (Honestly, I think it doesn't really look like it is a functional one with its FPTP system.)
If it is one then by definiton the electorate gives consent to the elected government to make decisions on their behalf.
In advance. That is how it works.

Lets face it, UKIP was the only party that wanted out of the EU and they were never going to get enough votes to get into power.

[Deleted]

To this day i don't understand this whole "were paying more then were getting out" crap the brits spout all the time.

No shit. All the rich countries knew that up front, and more importantly knew it wasn't going to be a short term thing either.

[Deleted]

I can absolutely guarantee that we will not be paying the 60 billion euros, anyone can see this is just the EU setting out their starting position for the upcoming negotiations.

Surely its straightforward to calculate, we will still pay as before until 2019 when we leave, we will pay for any projects that we have committed to and we will cover the pension's liabilities (probably based upon a % of our historic budget contributions). However, you would also then have to add up all the EU assets and then our share by % of budget contributions would then be taken off the figure.

Yeah this pretty much.

I also don't think the UK Government will accept that this 'bill' needs to be agreed before and discussions on the future trade agreement is carried out. That would be madness on the UK Government's part. How generous the UK is with regards to this 'bill' depends entirely on how generous the EU is in return

.
Except the two issues are not related.
The 'Bill' as it were is a mostly technical matter, the trade deal is mostly a function of to what degree the UK will, gasp, accept EU authority.
The EU sells mostly goods to the UK, trivial from a regulatory perspective, and the UK sells Services to the EU, complicated from a regulatory perspective.
If the UK doesn't want to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, then there is not that much to talk about left.

[psyquest]

by 2025 all those that voted one way or another will know if they made the right choice.

Hopefully all those that got it wrong are still alive and mature enough to admit it to themselves and not try and find another "excuse".

It goes for BOTH side.

[Kalis]

To this day i don't understand this whole "were paying more then were getting out" crap the brits spout all the time.

No shit. All the rich countries knew that up front, and more importantly knew it wasn't going to be a short term thing either.

The argument was that we are subsidising poorer nations, then having their workers undermine the UK job market, so we are effectively paying to fuck over our working classes. Some people thought that money could be better spent elsewhere, mainly on the UK, rather than somewhere like Poland.

It is an argument that the left wing used to make, but for some reason the mainstream British left wing stopped giving a fuck about the working class, they seem more interested in identity politics and multiculturalism nowadays.

I am not working class, but I can see their point, though I wanted us to go about dealing with the problem a different way.

[Deleted]

England chose it own country over being ruled by a bunch of fucking bureaucrats in fucking Germany.

Brussels isn't in Germany.

England will not have to do anything to appease the fucking retarded leaches from the EU. The EU is just extremely butt hurt because they are realizing that their little cabal of elitist jerks is heading for a nosedive.

I smell the sanity.

There has never been this level of unemployment in euroblocks

Which is actually a matter of National policy.
It's not actually something the EU has power over.

[Kalis]

by 2025 all those that voted one way or another will know if they made the right choice.

What life will be like in a mere 8 years, for what is a long term project of this magnitude, is too early.

[Rockyreg]

The 'Bill' as it were is a mostly technical matter, the trade deal is mostly a function of to what degree the UK will, gasp, accept EU authority.
The EU sells mostly goods to the UK, trivial from a regulatory perspective, and the UK sells Services to the EU, complicated from a regulatory perspective.
If the UK doesn't want to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, then there is not that much to talk about left.

Its all related as its all up for negotiation. I imagine the UK see's the bill as relevant to the level of access it receives. Not that it would happen but it was interesting to see over the weekend that a House of Lords report said that legally the UK doesn't have to pay anything to the EU upon leaving.

I don't think people should read too much into what both the EU and UK are currently saying in what is essentially their starting positions in a negotiation. Compromises will be found, that hard part is each party having to 'sell; the outcome as a victory.

[Deleted]

Then they can do one. There is zero chance a Tory administration would authorise payment of €60bn to the EU, in exhange for a sum of that size we would want something in return, like Corsica and the Algarve.

They will pay.
They wont pay 60 billion, if for no other reason than that included payments to ongoing programs, that the UK would like to be a part of, like Erasmus and Schengen (not the Zone mind you).

[Deleted]

No one is punishing anyone. They are just saying UK will be treated just like a non EU country. If they don't do that, EU will coming trembling down.
Imagine of you can keep Brussels off your behinds and keep accessing the single market?

Yeah imagine that, just having a single market without having Brussels, would solve a lot of problems.

[Deleted]

The argument was that we are subsidising poorer nations, then having their workers undermine the UK job market, so we are effectively paying to fuck over our working classes. Some people thought that money could be better spent elsewhere, mainly on the UK, rather than somewhere like Poland.

It is an argument that the left wing used to make, but for some reason the mainstream British left wing stopped giving a fuck about the working class, they seem more interested in identity politics and multiculturalism nowadays.

I am not working class, but I can see their point, though I wanted us to go about dealing with the problem a different way.

The way i remember it that was one of the reasons to get in in the first place. Rich nations get cheap labor, poor nations get investments.

Getting cheap labor has historically been one of the driving factors to encourage immigration for that kind of country. My country has had several waves of cheap labor import since WW2.

[Wyrt]

What's the point of leaving if they're just going to crawl back to the EU and beg for trade deals?

[Hooked]

Since when does france dictate to England?