Warcraft Chronicle Vol 2 (Warning: Spoilers)

[Magnagarde]

Also, Kael'thas was part of the Council of Six of Dalaran.

High elves left the Alliance after Second War. The elves you see in Warcraft 3 come mainly from two camps:
- Dalarani high elves (which is why elves units in WC3 are casters)
- A few thalassian high elves that stayed in Alliance lands because they were still felt part of the Alliance and ignored their nation's order to return.

I didn't dispute Quel'thalas. I disputed the "the high elves" part as it was not all of them.

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That does not change the fact that Quel'thalas had left the Alliance, just because high elves chose to serve in the Alliance army does not mean their kingdom was part of it.

If their prince serves the Alliance, then what does that say about their kingdom?

I am not talking about Anasterian withdrawing per se, but the way it doesn't make sense that their prince serves a human. After his father's death, he became the leader of his people and his kingdom, while serving Garithos.

[Combatbutler]

If their prince serves the Alliance, then what does that say about their kingdom?

That it isn't part of the Alliance, since their king decreed it so.

I am not talking about Anasterian withdrawing per se, but the way it doesn't make sense that their prince serves a human.

You mean after their kingdom was sacked and the elves sought out the remnants of the other races to fight back, of course Garithos would be in charge then he had the most troops.

[DeicideUH]

That does not change the fact that Quel'thalas had left the Alliance, just because high elves chose to serve in the Alliance army does not mean their kingdom was part of it.

Yes, just to add:

- WC3 manual made it clear Quel'thalas had left the Alliance
- In human campaign, the elves you see are either from Dalaran or priests sent to investigate the plague.
- The elven nation didn't get involved in the war until Arthas had already laid waste to Lordaeron and marched the undead armies into Quel'thalas.

[Magnagarde]

That it isn't part of the Alliance, since their king decreed it so.

Their dead king? Whose only living male heir serves Garithos?

[Friendlyimmolation]

If their prince serves the Alliance, then what does that say about their kingdom?

I am not talking about Anasterian withdrawing per se, but the way it doesn't make sense that their prince serves a human.

where the hell are you getting this information that Kaelthas served under garithos? Cant find a single note on it in the thread. Unless you are talking about WC3, and then its damn obvious why he served him. Because Garithos had the most resources to fight the scourge. Just because hes working with Garithos, doesn't make him Alliance.

[Magnagarde]

where the hell are you getting this information that Kaelthas served under garithos? Can find a single note on it in the thread, unless you are talking about WC3, and then its damn obvious why he served him. Because Garithos had the most resources to fight the scourge. Just because hes working with Garithos, doesn't make him Alliance.

No problem, I guess?


Grand Marshal Garithos: You are late, Prince Kael'thas. I thought you elves prided yourselves on punctuality.
Prince Kael'thas: It could not be helped, Lord Garithos. We ran into a group of night elves from across the sea, and --
Grand Marshal Garithos: I am not interested in your fanciful excuses! You elves are here to serve the Alliance: thus, you will obey my commands to the letter! Is that clear?
Prince Kael'thas: Yes, Lord Garithos.


It's almost like the storywriters had in mind that someone on these forums would try to rebuke it with some twists of their own lol

[Friendlyimmolation]

No problem, I guess?
Grand Marshal Garithos: You are late, Prince Kael'thas. I thought you elves prided yourselves on punctuality.
Prince Kael'thas: It could not be helped, Lord Garithos. We ran into a group of night elves from across the sea, and --
Grand Marshal Garithos: I am not interested in your fanciful excuses! You elves are here to serve the Alliance: thus, you will obey my commands to the letter! Is that clear?
Prince Kael'thas: Yes, Lord Garithos.

Nothing in that speech shows them being Part of the Alliance. Kael'thas and his blood elves were there to fight the scourge with Garithos, not be part of the Alliance.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue here at this point.

Referring to people by their titles doesn't magically make you now part of their organization, nor does serving someone always make you part of them.

[Combatbutler]

It's almost like the storywriters had in mind that someone on these forums would try to rebuke it with some twists of their own lol

It does not change the fact that Quel'thlas had left the Alliance after the second war rejoined briefly in tft and then left again after the humans betrayed them.

So what you argue for is blood elven membership of a few months.

[Magnagarde]

Nothing in that speech shows them being Part of the Alliance. Kael'thas and his blood elves were there to fight the scourge with Garithos, not be part of the Alliance.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue here at this point.

I am saying that he served the leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron.

I literally posted a quote where Kael'thas' character confirms what I wrote after you asked for it. Now you pretend like you don't know what is going on.

[Combatbutler]

I am saying that he served the leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron.

No the leader of Lordaeron, not the entire Alliance. The ones in charge after the fall of the northern kingdoms, were ironforge and stormwind.

[Magnagarde]

It does not change the fact that Quel'thlas had left the Alliance after the second war rejoined briefly in tft and then left again after the humans betrayed them.

So what you argue for is blood elven membership of a few months.

The humans didn't betray them. Kael'thas got himself into a position of looking like a traitor because he worked with the naga.

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No the leader of Lordaeron, not the entire Alliance. The ones in charge after the fall of the northern kingdoms, were ironforge and stormwind.

After the fall, yes . At this point, Lordaeron still hadn't fallen as it's military was still going and actually helped liberate Lordaeron, only to be betrayed by Sylvanas and her dreadlord companion.

Stormwind and Ironforge took the mantle with the beginning of WoW's timeline.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I am saying that he served the leader of the Alliance of Lordaeron.

I literally posted a quote where Kael'thas' character confirms what I wrote after you asked for it. Now you pretend like you don't know what is going on.

You are trying to make the claim that somehow Kael'thas would be unable to live in Dalaran on the council, because he refers to Garithos as lord in Warcraft 3.

The humans didn't betray them. Kael'thas got himself into a position of looking like a traitor because he worked with the naga.

Tell that to the Kirin'tor who just watched them be slated for execution. No one knew anything about the naga who at this point did nothing malicious, but had even helped beat the scourge. it was Garithos using his racism to justify more racism.

[Combatbutler]

The humans didn't betray them. Kael'thas got himself into a position of looking like a traitor because he worked with the naga.

And was willing to take responsibility for it, not to mention the naga were not enemies at the time, and the kirin tor stood on the sidelines instead of trying to get them out, so yes the humans betrayed them.

[TheFirstOnes]

So, basically:

Sargeras had a plan

The plan was going 100% well

Until gul'dan fucked the horde up, as well as the legion at lorderon/The Broken shore.

Kil'jaeden wanted to kill gul'dan himself

Sargeras told him to piss off, and focus on his own shit

Sargeras sent in a bunch of demons

And gul'dan was torn to shreds, at the exact door that's before the Avatar's corpse area..

Now, just imagine if gul'dan did what the legion told him to do, without betrayal, The legion would've won then...

But now, now the legion faces a late third invasion, and now suffers the doom of dying to us mortals with godly weapons...

Quite the fucking irony though, that MU gul'dan died at the tomb, just before he got his so called "Power" so he could win,while dying to a bunch of underlings. Meanwhile, AU gul'dan died RIGHT next to the tomb, JUST before sargeras' summoning, but died to a bunch of underlings.

So, yeah. Both gul'dans aren't so fucking different now, aren't they?

Also, did I not mention the fact that both of them lost their skulls?

[Combatbutler]

After the fall. At this point, Lordaeron still hadn't fallen as it's military was still going.

Lordaeron was a wasteland, there is a reason why they were called the last pockets of resistance, by the dreadlords

Stormwind and Ironforge took the mantle with the beginning of WoW's timeline.

Lordaeron was defunct, its royal bloodline broken, the other northern kingdoms as well, stormwind and ironforge on the other had were healthy.

[Magnagarde]

And was willing to take responsibility for it, not to mention the naga were not enemies at the time, and the kirin tor stood on the sidelines instead of trying to get them out, so yes the humans betrayed them.

Nope, the humans didn't betray them. They made themselves look like traitors. They weren't, but they appeared to be. Had the humans all of a sudden locked them up without seeing them with the naga, then that would be betrayal indeed.

Walking around with serpent-like beings tends to give you the suspicion of being a traitor in times when all kinds of monstrosities surface and princes kill their allies.

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Lordaeron was defunct, its royal bloodline broken, the other northern kingdoms as well, stormwind and ironforge on the other had were healthy.

Healthy, yet still part of the Alliance of Lordaeron. Only the total demise of Lordaeron's nobility with Garithos lead to Lordaeron's hierarchy going defunct.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Nope, the humans didn't betray them.

Walking around with serpent-like beings tends to give you the suspicion of being a traitor in times when all kinds of monstrosities surface and princes kill their own.

Saying nope isn't an argument here. Letting a bigot sentence the people that worked alongside your kingdom for generations for execution and then do nothing is betrayal, and its why Rommath and other Blood elves hate the Kirin'tor to this day.

What you are otherwise trying to argue makes no sense, I think you just confused yourself.

[Combatbutler]

Nope, the humans didn't betray them.

Walking around with serpent-like beings tends to give you the suspicion of being a traitor in times when all kinds of monstrosities surface and princes kill their own.

Garithos send them on suicide missions, with the intent to get them killed that alone can be seen as betrayal and again the naga were not enemies at that point in time. The only reason Garithos did not want them around was because he didn't like how they looked.

Healthy, yet still part of the Alliance of Lordaeron.

Lordaeron lost its position with its downfall.

[Magnagarde]

What you are otherwise trying to argue makes no sense, I think you just confused yourself.

I don't know why you are even still replying to me in the first place, asking me to point out to evidence that Kael'thas served the Alliance, only to distract from the discussion once being aced.

You're simply doing some scitzophrenic mind gymnastics right here and I'm really not into that stuff. I've proven you wrong and I've proven Kael'thas and his high elves served the Alliance with narration taken directly out of that character's mouth. Accept it, deny it, do whatever you wish with it.

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Lordaeron lost its position with its downfall.

Which was when Garithos died and it's armies scattered.

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and again the naga were not enemies at that point in time. The only reason Garithos did not want them around was because he didn't like how they looked.

Well, who could've guessed that terrifying serpent men that humans didn't come across before would trigger a hostile reaction? How xenophobic of the humans.

[Combatbutler]

Which was when Garithos died and it's armies scattered.

Most of their armies were already in shambles, heck it was the reason Garithos was in charge to begin with, since the chain of command was almost entirely gone.

Varimathras: Instead of stamping it out, Detheroc has taken control of the last pocket of human resistance. They maintain their own army within the keep.