Mafia #81 - Game Thread - Mario Kart Madness

[Danner]

@Graeham: Mind telling everyone what happened last night?

[dupti]

Well kinda duh ya, it's part of the reason why you want to artificially increase your vote count and part of the reason you want to harvest items. If you get a pow box the only thing to do to take it out of play is get another item so you drop it, or wait till everyone is far enough above the line to make uae of it without putting others at risk. This is a game though where if town could learn to cooperate we could effectively kill off multiple suspects in a day phase but i mean who acctually wants toplay the game pfft

I've already said multiple times that I'd never try to modkill people, so I won't be using post reducing items (except bananas, because who cares about -1). Sure, town could put them to use but I will not, I don't think it is fun or has anything to do with the actual game.

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Actually @Virothe my dear friend, since you apparently decided to ignore Crackle I'm going to ask you the same thing he did. reads??????????+++++++++

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@Graeham: Mind telling everyone what happened last night?

Although it was quite obvious, I wish you would have waited a bit before posting this.

[Danner]

Although it was quite obvious, I wish you had waited a bit before posting this.

Well, he seemed to ignore it.

[dupti]

Well, he seemed to ignore it.

There are other ways to push, after d2 we really needed to have a proper day.

[Graeham]

Jesus christ I don't think anyone cares about the bonus win condition right now.

Give actual reads please.

Why wouldn't they? A seasoned or reckless player would stand a pretty good chance at pushing for the 'Grand Master' title. Especially if they played through the eyes of a serial killer even if they, themselves, happened to be town. They might not do so early on under usual circumstances but with three scum dead it is very unlikely that many scum remain and as a result there's plenty of room for them to position themselves to push to be the final survivor.

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to put some trust in you due to a statement you made about me yesterday and the fact that I'm still alive. So there's at least one read. I'm a little wary of Danner given his vote on me combined with him...not really bringing up the whole 'Grand Master' angle despite his lengthy contributions to the game. I'm also wary of Crackleslap due to ending the day early. Granted, there were only four hours left in the day at the time but that time was precious in regards to allowing people to bump up their post counts.

I also didn't really like the very early push on Catta yesterday. Yes, it was the right call in him being scum but it eliminated a lot of room for discussion and asking people how they felt about him before he was caught out. Furthermore there wasn't really a whole lot for people to contribute after the big reveal. When it's left inevitable for someone to be lynched on a given day, especially early on, this gives other players a great excuse to just follow the crowd or lay low themselves due to either having no reads to share or desiring to lay low.

This isn't necessarily outright scummy, either - because even if people do have additional reads at the time it isn't necessarily the best idea to do so. Or at least not obviously - because let's be honest here, if somebody said outright yesterday that they had a strong read on someone other than Catta yesterday it could every well have tipped them off to being a TPR and resulted in them becoming an obvious target that night phase.

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@Graeham: Mind telling everyone what happened last night?

I'm not the one who killed Reticence, if that is what you're getting that. I'm happy to claim if needed, though.

[dupti]

Why wouldn't they? A seasoned or reckless player would stand a pretty good chance at pushing for the 'Grand Master' title. Especially if they played through the eyes of a serial killer even if they, themselves, happened to be town. They might not do so early on under usual circumstances but with three scum dead it is very unlikely that many scum remain and as a result there's plenty of room for them to position themselves to push to be the final survivor.

Because if you are town you shouldn't be focusing on the grand master crap (actually neither should you if you were scum) at this point, because even the players who are trying to go for it still have to play for their primary win condition - which means that is what you should focus on. So if you are town, then all you should care about at the moment is finding scum.

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to put some trust in you due to a statement you made about me yesterday and the fact that I'm still alive.

Elaborate please.

Furthermore there wasn't really a whole lot for people to contribute after the big reveal. When it's left inevitable for someone to be lynched on a given day, especially early on, this gives other players a great excuse to just follow the crowd or lay low themselves due to either having no reads to share or desiring to lay low.

At least it gave you an excuse, no? You could still contribute. Share your thoughts, what would a Catta scum flip mean for your reads etc.

This isn't necessarily outright scummy, either - because even if people do have additional reads at the time it isn't necessarily the best idea to do so. Or at least not obviously - because let's be honest here, if somebody said outright yesterday that they had a strong read on someone other than Catta yesterday it could every well have tipped them off to being a TPR and resulted in them becoming an obvious target that night phase.

This doesn't really make sense.

[Bombercloner]

How about not using it at all?

Then Scum uses BOO on you and they can use it? You using it at a good time is better than letting scum use it at a bad time.

[dupti]

Then Scum uses BOO on you and they can use it? You using it at a good time is better than letting scum use it at a bad time.

I see no reason to go over this again.

[Bombercloner]

I see no reason to go over this again.

I chose to respond to your quote before catching up on the thread.

[Graeham]

I mean, it should be pretty obvious by now that I rarely 'plan ahead' to the same extent as other players where these games are concerned. I don't take notes, I have dyscalculia and so I can't keep track of votes due to struggling when it comes to working with numbers. So, yes, once the 'obvious' routes are explored I don't tend to do much digging. I do, however, comb for other potential leads - which is what led to me bringing up the whole 'Grand Master' thing.

I'm not sure why it's being brushed off so heavy-handedly, though. What part of my reasoning doesn't make sense about it? At least when people are surprised by the inevitable backstabbing that will go on even amongst those of the same alignment I can look back and say 'I told you so'.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. Who knows? I just don't see the point in ignoring a secondary mechanic that is set to become the primary mechanic the moment scum is eliminated - which seems likely at this point.

[Bombercloner]

I would agree it is a little early in the game to be worried about people conspiring to win the (mini prize) endgame.

[dupti]

I chose to respond to your quote before catching up on the thread.

Fair enough, I'll explain it one last time then.

Think of it like this:

There are (most likely) two scum alive, which means the worst case scenario is if both of them have a pow box (-10 to every town in the game).
So for town to counter this all they need to do is make sure they have more than 10 posts at the end of the day.

Now let's say a townie has picked up a pow box as well and he uses it. All this means is that the town has to post 5 more times to nullify this, while they still have to post 10 times to counter the scum's pow boxes (even if scum don't have any, the safest and correct play is to assume they have two).
So if we let town post the boxes, all it does it force town to post even more. While that it isn't really an issue for most of the players here, it is however as Xan mentioned yesterday annoying, because all it means is just more spam we have to get through.

It also opens up more room for scum to play around, seeing as they now have the possibility of using pow boxes in the day thread. It's hard to discuss this, as we would need a concrete situation to see it in play, but it's fair to say it gives them more possibilities than they get if we simply just agree that it is a scum item.

Now you and Danner like to bring up stealing the item, but that doesn't change anything. Town still just needs to play around the -10.
I think the scenario Danner tried to bring up was:
both scum have a pow box > one scum uses his -> picks up a boo > steals another pow box and uses it.
First of all this is extremely unlikely, but what it sounds like to me that you haven't realised is that this scenario can also happen if we let town reveal, since Danner said that town should only be allowed to reveal early in the day.
So let's assume one town picks one up early and reveals it and then another town picks one up later. Since he picked it up too late, he can't use it in the game thread.
So in this case, the scum could have two pox boses, one scum uses his, picks up a boo and then steals the pow box from the town who couldn't reveal.
That means a potential -20 AND that is assuming that only one town reveals one early.

So the main difference is that if we let town reveal it means town has to be prepared to post even more than they have to do if we just refuse to use it.

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I mean, it should be pretty obvious by now that I rarely 'plan ahead' to the same extent as other players where these games are concerned. I don't take notes, I have dyscalculia and so I can't keep track of votes due to struggling when it comes to working with numbers. So, yes, once the 'obvious' routes are explored I don't tend to do much digging. I do, however, comb for other potential leads - which is what led to me bringing up the whole 'Grand Master' thing.

I just explained it to you. This is a bonus win condition, people still have to focus on their primary win condition.
You are suggesting people already planned for it d1 which does not make sense, because what if their team ended up losing?

Also worrying about the bonus win condition makes absolutely no sense. Basically what you're saying is that you don't care about your real win condition, since you're indirectly saying that you're not trying to solve it but would rather focus on players who you think are going for the bonus win condition - but what if those players are town? Would you rather just throw the game to scum because you think town (who are scumhunting = trying to meet their primary wincondition) might be trying to go for the grand master win condition?
It makes no sense. I'm telling you to focus on your win condition, so drop the grand master thing.

I'm not sure why it's being brushed off so heavy-handedly, though. What part of my reasoning doesn't make sense about it? At least when people are surprised by the inevitable backstabbing that will go on even amongst those of the same alignment I can look back and say 'I told you so'.

Sure feel free to do so, no one cares. Now ignore it and play the game. Stop wasting your time by continuing with this when people are telling you not to. People are telling you to focus on the current game state, so there is no reason for you to continue with this. If you are town, then please for the love of god just drop it.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. Who knows? I just don't see the point in ignoring a secondary mechanic that is set to become the primary mechanic the moment scum is eliminated - which seems likely at this point.

Then we worry about it at that point? Seems pretty simple.

[Bombercloner]

I can see both sides. I like the idea of using it, and then being able to get a new item.

[dupti]

Use Bullet Bill

I'm already first so shouldn't matter.

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I can see both sides. I like the idea of using it, and then being able to get a new item.

That's a fair point, but I personally just don't care about the items.

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Actually if anyone has anything to throw, I'd like to see them use it on Xanjori or Crackle. Both claimed to have a shell protecting them which I'd love to test.

[Graeham]

Well, like I said it could just be nothing. I'm still bringing it up since nobody else mentioned it at all and that troubled me. In a game where people can say one thing and do another I don't feel like it's a huge stretch or controversy but...oh well. It's out there now and people can refer back to it later if need be. I guess I'll stop going on about it now that it's actually right there in the thread as a point of discussion.

[dupti]

Yes please.

Now can you elaborate on this?

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to put some trust in you due to a statement you made about me yesterday and the fact that I'm still alive.

[Graeham]

Yes please.

Now can you elaborate on this?

A bit later, yes. I don't want to claim right away but I'm willing to a little later if need be. You were on the right track with the suggested reasoning for me laying low yesterday, though.

[dupti]

A bit later, yes. I don't want to claim right away but I'm willing to a little later if need be. You were on the right track with the suggested reasoning for me laying low yesterday, though.

Assuming you are telling the truth, then you can look forward to me bashing your play in my QT post game since I really dislike that play huehue

But yeah I'm very interested in your claim, but well, @Danner hai

[Kryllian]

Use Bullet Bill

I'm already first so shouldn't matter.

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That's a fair point, but I personally just don't care about the items.

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Actually if anyone has anything to throw, I'd like to see them use it on Xanjori or Crackle. Both claimed to have a shell protecting them which I'd love to test.

Dupti gained 20 posts. There was no one in front of him so no one lost posts.

[Graeham]

Assuming you are telling the truth, then you can look forward to me bashing your play in my QT post game since I really dislike that play huehue

But yeah I'm very interested in your claim, but well, @Danner hai

Well, in all fairness I have a track record of not being comfortable as a TPR. My reads in the previous game were spot on - and I did my part during the night phase to cause scum some trouble. I didn't bring it up during the day as to avoid exposing myself, though. Which was both good and bad. This time around I think I'm onto something with the whole 'Grand Champion' thing but time will tell if I'm just being overly paranoid or not.

I'll admit, sometimes I'm too quiet and other times I'm too heavy handed/vocal. It could very well have shifted from one extreme to the other this time around.