Less than a week to patch. What are you putting your first trait points into on Tues?

[Deleted]

I can't speak for others but I am going for the new traits as BM atleast to get the 8 focus reduction. I think it will make a lot smoother the rotation and dps wise will be close if not on par with the other traits seeing how the focus reduction cost allows for an extra kc in a bw window.

[Sim]

1+ Kill Command Damage.
1+ Jaws of Thunder
2+ Cobra Shot focus reduction. Then focus on the rest of the new traits.

[Khrux]

1+ Kill Command Damage.
1+ Jaws of Thunder
2+ Cobra Shot focus reduction. Then focus on the rest of the new traits.

This is what I'm thinking also.

The cobra cost reduction is powerful, but I'm using Frenzy and Aotb(with mantle/boots) alot more lately and I don't think the cobra cost reduction benefits are as strong for me. If your using Dire Beasts and killer cobra it is more powerful.

[Pyrophobia]

Regards to Marksman the first 4/4 in extra Vulnerability will be hard to pass but i am not sure where to go from that point on. Feet of the wind seems utterly useless so i want to see/hear/read some information about exactly how Cyclonic Burst works before i decide if i should go that way before spending points in the old traits like Marked for Death or even the nerfed Deadly Aim

Will the trail of wind be hitting the main target. I am guessing the trail itself will act as a ground effect and will be ticking for dmg to mobs that pass it but will it leave a dot on them or not. And what amount of dps will this 300% ap add to our rotation if it is hitting the main target.

[Dracodraco]

Regards to Marksman the first 4/4 in extra Vulnerability will be hard to pass but i am not sure where to go from that point on. Feet of the wind seems utterly useless so i want to see/hear/read some information about exactly how Cyclonic Burst works before i decide if i should go that way before spending points in the old traits like Marked for Death or even the nerfed Deadly Aim

Will the trail of wind be hitting the main target. I am guessing the trail itself will act as a ground effect and will be ticking for dmg to mobs that pass it but will it leave a dot on them or not. And what amount of dps will this 300% ap add to our rotation if it is hitting the main target.

It'll 99% likely work like a flamestrike, earthquake etc - if something's stood on the patch of wind, it takes damage every second while stood on it. Also, it boosts WB' damage by literally 200%. Goes from a 800% AP shot to a 2300% assuming the mob stands in it the entire time. Windburst will become our strongest attack by a huge margin, even more so than a 200% vulnerable aimed shot - BY FAR.

WB does about 5% damage for most people right now on single target, so you can assume that if it triples in damage, it'll be about a 10% dps boost, assuming you can use it correct. Nothing else comes even *close*, considering 2% aimed shot crit on 60% of our dmg is "only" a bit over 1% etc.

[Sabinn]

Well I will be doing:

Bond of the Unseen Path -> Jaws -> Pack -> Furious Swipes ->Unleash the Beast -> 4/4 Slithering Serpents ,

Then I will wait for Cobra Commander to get fixed, this should be enough time. Reason I'm going for Furious Swipes first is the amount of AOE bosses NH has and I would benefit a lot from that in the long run.

[Renley]

Well I will be doing:

Bond of the Unseen Path -> Jaws -> Pack -> Furious Swipes ->Unleash the Beast -> 4/4 Slithering Serpents ,

Then I will wait for Cobra Commander to get fixed, this should be enough time. Reason I'm going for Furious Swipes first is the amount of AOE bosses NH has and I would benefit a lot from that in the long run.

I'm debating between this, and rushing Slithering/Thunderslash/Cobra Commander. I can't imagine CC being broken for too long. But I guess you never know(cough Dire Frenzy+T19 cough).

[Tehterokkar]

It'll 99% likely work like a flamestrike, earthquake etc - if something's stood on the patch of wind, it takes damage every second while stood on it. Also, it boosts WB' damage by literally 200%. Goes from a 800% AP shot to a 2300% assuming the mob stands in it the entire time. Windburst will become our strongest attack by a huge margin, even more so than a 200% vulnerable aimed shot - BY FAR.

WB does about 5% damage for most people right now on single target, so you can assume that if it triples in damage, it'll be about a 10% dps boost, assuming you can use it correct. Nothing else comes even *close*, considering 2% aimed shot crit on 60% of our dmg is "only" a bit over 1% etc.

Not sure if simc is modeling it correctly or whatever, but it's currently 4% of my damage done on PTR sims.

[Sabinn]

I'm debating between this, and rushing Slithering/Thunderslash/Cobra Commander. I can't imagine CC being broken for too long. But I guess you never know(cough Dire Frenzy+T19 cough).

An alternative would be rushing with Slithering serpents and wait for accurate Sims. Can't go wrong with Slithering after all.


Probably the safer bet.

[Gilthandir]

As someone who has Belt + Shoulders for Bm, but not the boots, the cobra shot reduction trait concerns me. I fear that the massive reduction in Cobra cost will make the benefit from Belt far worse, probably to the point where Shoulders + Boots + AOTB will be the new best way to play BM on single target.

To combat this I am wondering if it is better for Belt owners to spend 5 points in the dps 4/4 traits before even attempting to go for sneaky snakes. Any thoughts? I have seen little to no theory crafting for hunters in 7.2

[Renley]

As someone who has Belt + Shoulders for Bm, but not the boots, the cobra shot reduction trait concerns me. I fear that the massive reduction in Cobra cost will make the benefit from Belt far worse, probably to the point where Shoulders + Boots + AOTB will be the new best way to play BM on single target.

To combat this I am wondering if it is better for Belt owners to spend 5 points in the dps 4/4 traits before even attempting to go for sneaky snakes. Any thoughts? I have seen little to no theory crafting for hunters in 7.2

Eh, I don't think it'll be that big of a hit. At the moment, belt provides a 6 focus cost reduction. In 7.2, with trait, CS will cost 32 focus. The belt will then further reduce this by 4.8 focus, putting CS at 27.2 focus during BW. That only a 1.2 focus cost 'nerf' per CS, or about what..7.2 to 8.4 focus over a BW(6 to 7 CS).

[Zurabeth]

Not sure if simc is modeling it correctly or whatever, but it's currently 4% of my damage done on PTR sims.

Well cyclonic burst plus windburst is 9.3%. Maybe that is what he meant?

[Pyrophobia]

My fear is that the ground effect happens between you and the target and that will mean that if the target is being tanked slightly behind or moved to the side after pull it will take 0 dmg from dot.

However if the effect is so strong then that talent will be worth chasing before the rest with the exception of 4/4 in quickshot

[Dracodraco]

Well cyclonic burst plus windburst is 9.3%. Maybe that is what he meant?

Naw, he found an inconsistency - I've been thinking cyclonic burst and windburst are both AP modifiers, while in fact windburst is 800% weapon damage, and cyclonic burst is 300% AP per second. It's about right - you'll see your damage ~double on a single target from using wind burst, and scale ad-infinitum on any cleave/add fights. As windburst is already a "hit on CD, pretty much" button it's just a raw 4-5% increase in damage on single target.
Likewise, someone pointed out a fault with my vulnerable math, mainly because I've just been calculating the raw gain on the debuff compared to currently, without factoring in the base aimed shot damage - the vuln traits are more like 2.5% per trait DPS-wise than 4%, meaning all in all, spending your first 7 points in the new tree to unlock cyclonic+unerring arrows should net about a ~14% single target increase if not slightly more - less than the 20%+ I'd initially thought, but honestly, still pretty damn good, especially as our AOE also gets bolstered by this (trick shot takes advantage of the vuln buff, and windburst is an AOE now). Still hold firm that no old traits get even close to the value of the new ones.

[Deleted]

meme build get litteraly shit on by the conventional build now with the new "unerring arrows" trait right? Without correct leggos and especially with belt/gloves leggos or this is wrong?

[Dracodraco]

meme build get litteraly shit on by the conventional build now with the new "unerring arrows" trait right? Without correct leggos and especially with belt/gloves leggos or this is wrong?

Yes and no. It just puts a bit more of a divide between the two specs. Meme build will remain superior for AOE and burst AOE in particular - it never relied on Aimed shot, and get the cyclonic burst buff (along with 3.33% marked shot crit and damage down the line with the new 4/4 traits).

The conventional trick shot build was already superior in most actual use cases (you never need the burst / general AOE damage this tier, and if you do gain DPS by using it, there's a high chance it's because you're outgearing the content anyway and just need to deal your AOE damage quicker to pad). The unerring arrows trait just further cements the conventional build as the go-to for single target damage (and light cleave).

So, to put it bluntly;
The memespec hasn't gotten worse (only stronger), but the conventional spec will be pulling further ahead on single target, while meme spec remains the AOE go-to. Make of that what you want.

[Renley]

The Problem is not that the belt saves you less focus than before, the problem is that you have a limited amount of globals inside bw to actually spend the focus you saved from it, especially with the shoulders due to more globals used on Dire Beast/Frenzy. The benefit of the Belt right now is pretty much a extra Kill Command into every BW. I have not tested this, nor did i do the math, but the focus cost reduction trait might(!) be able to do that on its own without giving you another extra Kill Command which would lead to the belt having close to no benefit in a single target situation (ofc it still helps in aoe/cleave with multi-spam/beastcleave-KC weaving).

In addition to that comes the Thunderslash trait which might make CoF a very desirable Trinket for BM, and CoF on its own reduces the value of the Belt because you get to spam during AotW BW's anyway.

That is true I suppose, didn't think of the globals part. 3 points in Slithering Serpents would equate to the focus cost reduction for CS from the belt. Belt reduces KC by 4.5, while the 4th point of Slithering would only provide 2 less focus for CS. So overall SS vs Belt, you get 8 focus from CS vs 6 focus CS/4.5 focus KC. Dont know the exact amount of focus cost reduction overall needed to attain the extra KC though. I sadly don't have belt.

[Kirbypro]

Go for thunderslash.

[Agrotera]

The Problem is not that the belt saves you less focus than before, the problem is that you have a limited amount of globals inside bw to actually spend the focus you saved from it, especially with the shoulders due to more globals used on Dire Beast/Frenzy. The benefit of the Belt right now is pretty much a extra Kill Command into every BW. I have not tested this, nor did i do the math, but the focus cost reduction trait might(!) be able to do that on its own without giving you another extra Kill Command which would lead to the belt having close to no benefit in a single target situation (ofc it still helps in aoe/cleave with multi-spam/beastcleave-KC weaving)..

But what about outside the BW window? Even with shoulders (but especially without) the trait and belt mean less time sitting around pooling your focus or having to worry about being focus straved. If you can blow BW with around 70 focus (or less) and still fit every single KC possible, I'd call that pretty fucking fantastic.

[Deleted]

meme build get litteraly shit on by the conventional build now with the new "unerring arrows" trait right? Without correct leggos and especially with belt/gloves leggos or this is wrong?

Meme got stronger where it used to be strong, so did Trickshot.