Lying Trump is STILL Bullshitting About Obama Wiretapping Trump Tower

[Felya]

Sure they can! I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that everyone involved can't be lying in their own interests. Obviously Trump and Spicers are liars that have not even the fuzziest relationship with truth. Obviously Putinistas enthusiastically lie about Russian actions all the time. Obviously American intelligence agencies and and Congresscritters lie all the time.

Well, no. That is not how it works. When I say that you, Spectral, are spying on me. What I'm saying isn't the same as you saying that it's absurd for me to say. The fact that I accused you, isn't justified because your reply is serving your best interest, when you say you have not. Your argument is pretty much saying, that any expression of a conspiracy or even a simple accusation, holds the same merit of credibility, as those denying it. You having all the unicorns in your basement, isn't the same as you saying thee aren't... because that's your self interest... the only way to actual point at a lie on an accusation, without being the same liar, is to ignore it?

I don't trust any of these people, so I prefer the Occam's Razor explanations. My best guess is that the "Obama wiretapped me thing!" was literally something that Trump read on InfoWars or something similar; because he's a moron, it didn't occur to him that as President, he could probably find out if it's true, so he rage-tweeted something retarded as is his wont. Nunes is likely lying to get in Trump's good graces to seek reward. American intelligence almost certainly would have no real qualms about surveilling Trump and may have actually done so ("incidental" or not). Likewise, Democrat Senators certainly have no qualms lying in service of political agendas.

That's not Occam's razor. Occam's razor is just that Trump lied. Creating an excuse for why those who deny the legitimacy of a lie, outside it just being a lie, would denny a lie... is not Occam's razor. At all... Occam's razor is the simplest answer... thus... sense you believe Trump lied... the answer to why people are denying what he said, is that it's a lie... that's the simplest answer...

I think you confused Occam's razor with fox's version of fair and balanced. When someone is lying, it's not fair and balanced to say those exposing the lie, are lying as well...

Everyone involved can be despicable liars. That wouldn't be some shocking outcome considering the people who are involved.

Everyone lies... that's not the issue here... questioning general virtue is disingenuous, when discussing a specific issue.

[Deleted]

Well since Obama ordered Trump to be spied on, it may take a year for that to be clarified.

Has that order been found anywhere or is it just a figment of your imagination?

So far, the only thing that has been proven has been that incidental data on trumps transition team was collected, which is to be expected if they are, you know, busy betraying the country by making secret deals with the russians.

But please, keep digging that grave

[Spectral]

Well, no. That is not how it works. When I say that you, Spectral, are spying on me. What I'm saying isn't the same as you saying that it's absurd for me to say. The fact that I accused you, isn't justified because your reply is serving your best interest, when you say you have not. Your argument is pretty much saying, that any expression of a conspiracy or even a simple accusation, holds the same merit of credibility, as those denying it. You having all the unicorns in your basement, isn't the same as you saying thee aren't... because that's your self interest... the only way to actual point at a lie on an accusation, without being the same liar, is to ignore it?

That's not Occam's razor. Occam's razor is just that Trump lied. Creating an excuse for why those who deny the legitimacy of a lie, outside it just being a lie, would denny a lie... is not Occam's razor. At all... Occam's razor is the simplest answer... thus... sense you believe Trump lied... the answer to why people are denying what he said, is that it's a lie... that's the simplest answer...

I think you confused Occam's razor with fox's version of fair and balanced. When someone is lying, it's not fair and balanced to say those exposing the lie, are lying as well...

Everyone lies... that's not the issue here... questioning general virtue is disingenuous, when discussing a specific issue.

I think we just have very different Bayesian priors about the likelihood of whether spying on Trump or his team actually occurred. Given past IC actions, my prior for this is very high. When an IC or Congressional IC committee denies spying on someone, my default is to assume that they're lying because it usually turns out that they're lying.

Likewise, I just assume Trump is bullshitting all the time. His lack of virtue is centered on just making shit up altogether.

[Felya]

people will talk shit about him the more info is made available.. even when obamacare implodes people will blame trump. It will continue on both sides for years and years.

Can we not pretend we are clairvoyant, especially considering what you just replied to, was questioning the legitimacy of a news source predicting things that never happened.

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Almost everyone on this planet is being wiretapped lol. Try selling some illegal shit using your phone and you have police coming your way in a no time.

Have... many times... no unmarked helicopters... yet?

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I think we just have very different Bayesian priors about the likelihood of whether spying on Trump or his team actually occurred. Given past IC actions, my prior for this is very high. When an IC or Congressional IC committee denies spying on someone, my default is to assume that they're lying because it usually turns out that they're lying.

Likewise, I just assume Trump is bullshitting all the time. His lack of virtue is centered on just making shit up altogether.

But, that doesn't make any sense... if you think Trump is bullshitting, how can you also say that those saying it's bullshit, are lying? Like I said, you seem to be seeking a fair and balanced position, but it doesn't make sense here. When someone is lying, those who are saying that he lied, don't need additional motivation. What are you gaining from saying Trump is bullshiting or is your evaluation just, based on its merits?

[The Emperor]

"Yeah guys, c'mon! He said it! Sure, he won't share how he knows this or who told him with anyone -- not even other people on the Senate council -- but that doesn't mean he's lying or at least bending the truth! He SAID it, so it HAS to be true! C'mon!!!!!!!!"

<insert massive eyerolling here>

Oh I love being selectively suspicious of source's credibility. I bet a dollar you take Trump-smearing journalists' sources for granted.
The OP is just another democratic crybaby who can't believe their party is corrupt to the rotten core and seeks to push blame for it on Russia and everything Russian.


[Infracted]

[Zmaniac17]

If you actually go and check the source you will see I'm not trolling and the interception of Trump party communications DID occur. Also, 2/10 for the ad nauseam low quality bait. Keep up the grade 3 playground level insults.

If you want to use sources you should post something that everyone can look at. All I found on WSJ was an op-ed that I couldn't look at without a subscription. As far as I know, whatever Nunes looked at hasn't been revealed to the public or the house intelligence committee. This wouldn't be as much of a problem but his credibility is pretty low at this point. There's lots of noise surrounding this I wouldn't make up my mind either way just yet.

[Felya]

Oh I love being selectively suspicious of source's credibility. I bet a dollar you take Trump-smearing journalists' sources for granted.
The OP is just another democratic crybaby who can't believe their party is corrupt to the rotten core and seeks to push blame for it on Russia and everything Russian.

It's like rain on a wedding day?

[Spectral]

But, that doesn't make any sense... if you think Trump is bullshitting, how can you also say that those saying it's bullshit, are lying? Like I said, you seem to be seeking a fair and balanced position, but it doesn't make sense here. When someone is lying, those who are saying that he lied, don't need additional motivation. What are you gaining from saying Trump is bullshiting or is your evaluation just, based on its merits?

I think Trump is obviously bullshitting, but likely accidentally hit some nugget of truth regarding surveillance.

I'm not seeking a fair and balanced position, I just think Trump is basically always bullshitting and that the IC is basically always surveilling everyone. That they admit "incidental surveillance" increases my confidence of that even higher in this specific case.

I think one potential hangup here may be that Trump's brand of "lying" frequently doesn't entail knowing a fact and saying the opposite, it's just shotgunning out a whole bunch of garbage and some of it will occasionally have some actual merit, but will tend to contain a ton of nonsense. If you're an important person and declare, "the IC has spied on my associates", you're probably going to be at least a little bit correct.

The idea that Obama ordered it is almost certainly complete bullshit though.

[Ghostpanther]

Has that order been found anywhere or is it just a figment of your imagination?

So far, the only thing that has been proven has been that incidental data on trumps transition team was collected, which is to be expected if they are, you know, busy betraying the country by making secret deals with the russians.

But please, keep digging that grave

Lol! What grave? The one to bury the democrats in?

[Tico]

He is only making things worse for himself.
But it is good for us, I believe.

[Zmaniac17]

It's like rain on a wedding day?

It's a free ride when you've already paid?

[LaserChild9]

It is not BS, it was actually proven.

The Dem Media called it "incidental survelliance."

Except, "incidental survelliance" is usually immediately discarded and never widely disseminated.

This was saved and was widely disseminated.

Is it that difficult for people to put 2 and 2 together?

That is how Obama moves. Like a trickster.

He says you can keep your insurance if you like it, but then it turns out you can't.

He sends 500 million dollar in cash via plane to Iran as the soldiers they kidnapped are "released," but we are supposed to believe it is not a ransom somehow. What "it" actually is (hmm, sounds like Clinton with monica- seems to be a typical tactic of the Dishonest dems) is never explained.

If the media in this country was even slightly honest, the Dems would be long done. That is why they fight so hard to keep it this way, they know what will happen the second the man behind the curtain is revealed.

The Dems are just lucky that most people in this country will just believe what the media spoon feeds them and will never look deeper.

They can do anything, they just "rebrand" it. No, no, no- clearly you misunderstand....... we didn't spy on Trump, it was just "incidental survelliance".... Happens all the time... nothing to see here- move along please.

Did they record Trump without him knowing it? Clearly yes, they aren't even denying that. Then that is spying my friends and they did it. You can rebrand it all you want- it is still spying.

But hey, if you bought that "incidental survelliance" line, I have a 2 for 1 deal on bridges for you.....

Wow! All those conspiracies in one post. Amazing! So lets for just the briefest second (because any longer is quite clearly ludicrous) assume that your points are all true and legit, where are your sources? FYI "Coz trump said it" is nbot a legit source.

What do YOU think about all the links between trumps campaign and Russia? Is it really possible that it is pure coincidence that it seems like half his staff have been speaking with or visiting Russian diplomats throughout his campaign? Also, were Obama and Hilary really the of the founders of IS?

[Spectral]

What do YOU think about all the links between trumps campaign and Russia? Is it really possible that it is pure coincidence that it seems like half his staff have been speaking with or visiting Russian diplomats throughout his campaign?

I suspect that it'd turn out that like half of all political staff have spoken with Russian diplomats at some point. The kinds of things they're "caught" doing are mostly pretty open and easy to observe like talking at a party or some meeting. I can believe that his staff would be dumb enough to do that while conspiring with the Russians, but it would be a bit surprising if Russian spooks turned out to be that incompetent.

[Felya]

I think Trump is obviously bullshitting, but likely accidentally hit some nugget of truth regarding surveillance.

What nugget of truth? Obama never wiretapped Trump and neither did British intelligence.

I'm not seeking a fair and balanced position, I just think Trump is basically always bullshitting and that the IC is basically always surveilling everyone. That they admit "incidental surveillance" increases my confidence of that even higher in this specific case.

See, I guess I assumed you were trying to be fair and balanced, because until this post... I didn't think you actually were saying Trump said the truth. I didn't realize that you saw truth in what you are still calling bullshit. I'll take that one... my bad... you are not trying to be fair or balanced... my bad...

I think one potential hangup here may be that Trump's brand of "lying" frequently doesn't entail knowing a fact and saying the opposite, it's just shotgunning out a whole bunch of garbage and some of it will occasionally have some actual merit. If you're an important person and declare, "the IC has spied on my associates", you're probably going to be at least a little bit correct.

But, you just said that you believe Trump trusting his sources of truth in InfoWars, was Occam's razor. You are excusing Trump from lying, because he is repeating a lie, even though as president... he has the time to actually check? Trump isn't just some reality star. When he is saying something, there is a justified and very obvious problem of him being president, while repeating thee lie. With his access, willfully or not, repeating a lie when you have power to verify it, has very little difference to lying after verifying. Not checking if it's true, before spreading a lie you believe, doesn't make it better... me telling you I'm a millionaire, isn't better because I didn't check my bank balance before I lied.

The idea that Obama ordered it is almost certainly complete bullshit though.

... or that the British helped, like Spicer said....

[Exeris]

Starting to wonder if some of this(maybe not this specifically) is an attempt at sleight of hand? Our news cover little to nothing about the laws being passed or changed, it's mostly about Trump the person and his family.

[Deleted]

Lol! What grave? The one to bury the democrats in?

See? I make it so easy for you people, I give a reasonable substantiative response to post and ask you to provide (non-existant) proof for a statement you make earlier and instead you choose to attack the little quip I make at the end

[Felya]

It's a free ride when you've already paid?

No, it's actually ironic.

(Thanks for the set up! I was thinking it might be too old. )

[Shadowferal]

Oh I love being selectively suspicious of source's credibility. I bet a dollar you take Trump-smearing journalists' sources for granted.
The OP is just another democratic crybaby who can't believe their party is corrupt to the rotten core and seeks to push blame for it on Russia and everything Russian.

The biggest baby is the toddler-in-chief that has a whine-fest on twitter every fucking time he gets criticism.

Trump is an embarrassment and a disgrace.
I look forward to his impending forced resignation.

[Spectral]

What nugget of truth? Obama never wiretapped Trump and neither did British intelligence.



See, I guess I assumed you were trying to be fair and balanced, because until this post... I didn't think you actually were saying Trump said the truth. I didn't realize that you saw truth in what you are still calling bullshit. I'll take that one... my bad... you are not trying to be fair or balanced... my bad...



But, you just said that you believe Trump trusting his sources of truth in InfoWars, was Occam's razor. You are excusing Trump from lying, because he is repeating a lie, even though as president... he has the time to actually check? Trump isn't just some reality star. When he is saying something, there is a justified and very obvious problem of him being president, while repeating thee lie. With his access, willfully or not, repeating a lie when you have power to verify it, has very little difference to lying after verifying. Not checking if it's true, before spreading a lie you believe, doesn't make it better... me telling you I'm a millionaire, isn't better because I didn't check my bank balance before I lied.



... or that the British helped, like Spicer said....

Trump's a liar, intelligence agencies really do spy on people all the time and lie about it afterwards.

You're wildly overcomplicating this.

[Felya]

See? I make it so easy for you people, I give a reasonable substantiative response to post and ask you to provide (non-existant) proof for a statement you make earlier and instead you choose to attack the little quip I make at the end

Trump will destroy them, after they cannot come up with something better than ACA. 'Cmon democrats, do your jobs!! You expect Trump and the majority party to come up with something else better? They tried! Too hard! When does Trump have the time for another? Trump is a head of a corporation, the president and an avid golfer... he has no time for a better plan than ACA. RNC is too busy maintaining a majority in congress, so no time to come up with one. DNC do your jobs!!!