Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Still around, yes, but far from the focus. Makes a big difference.

the only one who's not in focus is tony. thor still has his own comics going with unworthy thor peter parker still has his own spider man comics going. they have in no way been replaced.

[Endus]

Still around, yes, but far from the focus. Makes a big difference.

Not the focus in stories that aren't focused on them.

Do you also complain that Tony Stark isn't the focus of Ms. Marvel titles?

And of those three, Tony's the only one taking a break. The Odinson and Parker both have their own comic lines.

[Aoyi]

I don't think diversity is the issue with comic sales. I think its a combination of a lack of creativity by the artists combined with their insistence on stretching a story line through 15 different series making it both expensive and frustrating to follow.

I say a lack of creativity because for every Squirrel Girl we get, there are a dozen "now they're female" twists. Thor doesn't need to be a woman. Neither does Iron Man. Give us new and interesting female leads rather than Gwenpool. Diversity doesn't mean turning all your existing male leads into females that are essentially the same. It should mean giving us new heroes of different backgrounds/genders that are compelling.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't think diversity is the issue with comic sales. I think its a combination of a lack of creativity by the artists combined with their insistence on stretching a story line through 15 different series making it both expensive and frustrating to follow.

I say a lack of creativity because for every Squirrel Girl we get, there are a dozen "now they're female" twists. Thor doesn't need to be a woman. Neither does Iron Man. Give us new and interesting female leads rather than Gwenpool. Diversity doesn't mean turning all your existing male leads into females that are essentially the same. It should mean giving us new heroes of different backgrounds/genders that are compelling.

fem thor and riri are new and interesting female leads they are not and never have been tony stark or thor odin son.

[BananaHandsB]

the only one who's not in focus is tony. thor still has his own comics going with unworthy thor peter parker still has his own spider man comics going. they have in no way been replaced.

And those comics are still doing well in sales.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And those comics are still doing well in sales.

i'm not sure what your point is with this post? you said they were not the focus but they are the focus of there comics and then you say there comics are doing well? i don't get it are you arguing with me or not? this is the internet you kinda have to argue with me.......

[Endus]

I don't think diversity is the issue with comic sales. I think its a combination of a lack of creativity by the artists combined with their insistence on stretching a story line through 15 different series making it both expensive and frustrating to follow.

I say a lack of creativity because for every Squirrel Girl we get, there are a dozen "now they're female" twists. Thor doesn't need to be a woman. Neither does Iron Man. Give us new and interesting female leads rather than Gwenpool. Diversity doesn't mean turning all your existing male leads into females that are essentially the same. It should mean giving us new heroes of different backgrounds/genders that are compelling.

Like piethepiegod said, Riri Williams is a "new and interesting female lead". She's not Female Tony Stark. And while she's flying under the Iron Man moniker, hero names are titles/aliases, not characters. This is why Captain America is usually Steve Rogers, but sometimes it's another guy. Because Steve Rogers is not the only person who can wear that suit. He's the only person who can be Steve Rogers, but that's separate.

It's best to look at a lot of those hero identities as job titles. You need to separate them from the individual who normally fills that "job", because comics have ALWAYS screwed with those expectations. It's not even unique to Marvel; look at how many Flashes there's been, or Green Lanterns (even just focusing on our Green Lantern and not the greater Corps).

It's even true with Thor, who's the closest you get to mixing the two. The mantle of power he enjoyed was well beyond that of the normal Asgardian, and that mantle can be transferred. That's the whole POINT of the story arc.

[BananaHandsB]

i'm not sure what your point is with this post? you said they were not the focus but they are the focus of there comics and then you say there comics are doing well? i don't get it are you arguing with me or not? this is the internet you kinda have to argue with me.......

The problem with the new Thor and Spiderlady comics: Thor and Spiderman aren't in the focus, ppl will simply buy the comics dedicated to those heroes.
Problem with new Ironman comics: Tony is not the focus and even worse, people can't simply buy ones dedicated to Tony.

People want their beloved heroes or new original ones, not spinoffs for the sake of diversification.

[Endus]

The problem with the new Thor and Spiderlady comics: Thor and Spiderman aren't in the focus, ppl will simply buy the comics dedicated to those heroes.

For Thor, the Mighty Thor is all about Thor. It's just that it's not the Odinson.
For "spiderlady", you're gonna have to be more specific, because Spiderwoman is her own character, as is SpiderGwen, and neither has a damn thing to do with replacing normal-continuity Parker in the first place. So there's no "replacing" at all.

Problem with new Ironman comics: Ironman is not the focus and even worse, people can't simply buy ones dedicated to Tony.

Iron Man is the focus. Iron Man isn't Tony Stark, though.

See, you're making the mistake of equating a character with a specific title. When that's never been something comics have held to be true.

And really, pretty much everyone expects Riri to take off into her own unique title if she's a success with the fans, and regardless, Tony will put the suit back on.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The problem with the new Thor and Spiderlady comics: Thor and Spiderman aren't in the focus, ppl will simply buy the comics dedicated to those heroes.
Problem with new Ironman comics: Ironman is not the focus and even worse, people can't simply buy ones dedicated to Tony.

thor is the lead of unworthy thor his own comic fem thor is in mighty thor her own comics witch are really really good. peter is the focus of i think amazing spider man? the spdierman comic names are all over the place. and mile is the focus of spider man miles moralis i think the name of his series, i think you mean spider gwen by spider lady and she is her own series to. all of the old heros other then tony is still the focus of there own comics thor is just in unworthy thor instead of mighty thor.

if people were to go into a comic book store and ask for thor there would be unworthy thor and mighty thor people will know what they want and they can find it easily its not like thor odinson is hidden in back of bibles or any thing.

[BananaHandsB]

For Thor, the Mighty Thor is all about Thor. It's just that it's not the Odinson.
For "spiderlady", you're gonna have to be more specific, because Spiderwoman is her own character, as is SpiderGwen, and neither has a damn thing to do with replacing normal-continuity Parker in the first place. So there's no "replacing" at all.



Iron Man is the focus. Iron Man isn't Tony Stark, though.

See, you're making the mistake of equating a character with a specific title. When that's never been something comics have held to be true.

Meant to say tony not iron man there. I'm just trying to explain to you, why the sales of these new spinoff comics are not doing well.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Meant to say tony not iron man there. I'm just trying to explain to you, why the sales of these new spinoff comics are not doing well.

its no different then its really been for a while though, say this was a few years back you would have peter packer spider man, ultimate peter packer spider man, spiderman 2099 and probably more i don't remember from that time frame. there has almost always been comic series with the same hero names going at the same time.

[Aoyi]

Like piethepiegod said, Riri Williams is a "new and interesting female lead". She's not Female Tony Stark. And while she's flying under the Iron Man moniker, hero names are titles/aliases, not characters. This is why Captain America is usually Steve Rogers, but sometimes it's another guy. Because Steve Rogers is not the only person who can wear that suit. He's the only person who can be Steve Rogers, but that's separate.

It's best to look at a lot of those hero identities as job titles. You need to separate them from the individual who normally fills that "job", because comics have ALWAYS screwed with those expectations. It's not even unique to Marvel; look at how many Flashes there's been, or Green Lanterns (even just focusing on our Green Lantern and not the greater Corps).

It's even true with Thor, who's the closest you get to mixing the two. The mantle of power he enjoyed was well beyond that of the normal Asgardian, and that mantle can be transferred. That's the whole POINT of the story arc.

I understand they are treated like job titles. My point wasn't that they made Tony Stark and Odyn son female. It was that rather than giving new and interesting female leads, they are relying on versions of the same safe super hero franchises to make female versions of. I mentioned Squirrel Girl because it was one of my favorite series in the last couple years. It was new. I don't like the let's make 50 spider men thing. I want new heroes and yes they have introduced some in the last few years. It just feels like Marvel doesn't want to branch out to far from their safe franchises. Give us more heroes. If you kill off a hero, commit to it for more than a year. Make people care. Sorry slightly different rant, but it all stems from the same place. I want diversity not just in gender/race representation, but in original characters too that aren't just new people with the same exact powers.

[Ivanstone]

It was that rather than giving new and interesting female leads, they are relying on versions of the same safe super hero franchises to make female versions of.

Even a female version of a male character isn't necessarily the same. She-Hulk (Jennifer Walters) is a radically different character than Hulk (Bruce Banner). And has been for a long time. (Or at least was. It looks like your friendly neighbourhood green lawyer got turned into something angry)

Even gender swapped characters created for really dumb reasons (ex Batwoman) may eventually get a life all the own. The person underneath the mask is most important but the mask does convey some of the information to help get you started.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I understand they are treated like job titles. My point wasn't that they made Tony Stark and Odyn son female. It was that rather than giving new and interesting female leads, they are relying on versions of the same safe super hero franchises to make female versions of. I mentioned Squirrel Girl because it was one of my favorite series in the last couple years. It was new. I don't like the let's make 50 spider men thing. I want new heroes and yes they have introduced some in the last few years. It just feels like Marvel doesn't want to branch out to far from their safe franchises. Give us more heroes. If you kill off a hero, commit to it for more than a year. Make people care. Sorry slightly different rant, but it all stems from the same place. I want diversity not just in gender/race representation, but in original characters too that aren't just new people with the same exact powers.

they are making quite a few new heros now if you look at the inhumans ms marvel is all new only thing she got from the old ms marvel is the name. my personal favorite new hero is moon girl, her and devil dinosaur have a great series going right now.

[Gestopft]

I understand they are treated like job titles. My point wasn't that they made Tony Stark and Odyn son female. It was that rather than giving new and interesting female leads, they are relying on versions of the same safe super hero franchises to make female versions of. I mentioned Squirrel Girl because it was one of my favorite series in the last couple years. It was new. I don't like the let's make 50 spider men thing. I want new heroes and yes they have introduced some in the last few years. It just feels like Marvel doesn't want to branch out to far from their safe franchises. Give us more heroes. If you kill off a hero, commit to it for more than a year. Make people care. Sorry slightly different rant, but it all stems from the same place. I want diversity not just in gender/race representation, but in original characters too that aren't just new people with the same exact powers.

I think you've hit the nail on the head- existing heroes are much easier to market and sell than trying to popularize new heroes. I don't think there's a lack of ideas for female superheroes, but it is, or at least the industry perceives that it is much easier to repackage a known commodity than to compete with a brand new product in the "superhero marketplace."

[Aoyi]

they are making quite a few new heros now if you look at the inhumans ms marvel is all new only thing she got from the old ms marvel is the name. my personal favorite new hero is moon girl, her and devil dinosaur have a great series going right now.

I actually have been meaning to check out the Inhumans (I like Kamala Khan in what I've seen). I haven't read any Devil Dinosaur, but know him from Marvel Puzzle Quest. I'm about 6 months behind at the moment as I've switched to reading through Marvel unlimited. Its just too expensive to keep up with all the print comics.

[Mormolyce]

Still around, yes, but far from the focus. Makes a big difference.

Don't you think you're shifting the goalposts there?

[Joni85]

Marvels problem is they pay their writers terribly. It doesn't matter if the characters are male, female, a talking Raccoon with a rocket launcher, or a giant floating head people will buy it and read it if the writing and art are good. Most of the good writers are realizing that if they write and publish their own stuff they'll easily make more than they do working for marvel, even with 1/10th the sales. You get what you pay for and right now marvel just hasn't been willing to put the money in to keep a lot of their top talent from leaving.

[Endus]

I understand they are treated like job titles. My point wasn't that they made Tony Stark and Odyn son female. It was that rather than giving new and interesting female leads, they are relying on versions of the same safe super hero franchises to make female versions of. I mentioned Squirrel Girl because it was one of my favorite series in the last couple years. It was new. I don't like the let's make 50 spider men thing. I want new heroes and yes they have introduced some in the last few years. It just feels like Marvel doesn't want to branch out to far from their safe franchises. Give us more heroes. If you kill off a hero, commit to it for more than a year. Make people care. Sorry slightly different rant, but it all stems from the same place. I want diversity not just in gender/race representation, but in original characters too that aren't just new people with the same exact powers.

Getting a new character off the ground is a massive challenge. Marvel has a HUGE list of heroes who never made it. And a huge range of others who are hanging on but never became the big-ticket types. Many of those, they've managed to turn around because of the cinematic universe. Guardians of the Galaxy, Jessica Jones, Maria Hill, Daisy Johnson/Quake, for instance. If you don't follow the comics, you may have never heard of characters like Amadeus Cho, the Runaways, Skaar, Fantomex. Until recently, X-23 was in a similar spot, though she's surged up the last few years.

I LIKE a lot of those characters, but the point is, Marvel DOES try and make new characters. And it's a giant struggle to sell them. Tying them directly to existing characters makes it feel more like an expanding family rather than just some new guy with no connection to anything, which eases that process.