New Expansion is Expensive!

[Doomislav]

I rolled into Un'Goro with 5000 gold so I bought 50 packs with it. And I got one legendary, but that was OK because I could craft the decks I wanted as I did with the other expansions, right?

No, not really. There are a LOT more legendary cards in this expansion, and quite a few of them (ICU quest cards) are necessary for decent decks.

I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that this expansion (while well done) has included elements that are excessively expensive.

[Sting]

I guess quests can be rough if you must have all of them right away.

Didnt feel worse than any other expansion though.

I think there's quite a few less "fillers" in this set. Most cool concepts are built around the legendary quests this time around, which people want to try out straight away.

Atleast those of us who crafted all the retired cards like azure drake, ragnaros etc. got a load of dust from that. Can craft 4 legendaries atm, but I'm waiting on a first snapshot of the meta so the bad stuff gets filtered.

[Yunaqt]

Doing this one F2P doing okay atm bought 40packs with gold on release, DE's all my wild cards so sitting on 31k dust.
Not crafting anything till after the dust settles and the 'actual' good decks start coming to light.

A lot of buzz over quests atm, however i'm running a buff tech pally usually beat them by the time they finally get the quest competed.

[Pantalaimon]

There are more legendaries for more decks when you look at building multiple decks at once, but there aren't a lot legendaries required for a single deck.

Quest Rogues only have Patches & the quest. Mages have the quest and maybe alex. Quest priests do have more, considering cards like N'Zoth, but those are old legendaries players should already have by now. The only new thing that priests got was the quest & Umbra.

[Blueobelisk]

Not really. Us poor people get stepped on every expansion, about the same.

As @Pantalaimon said, there are two types of decks: Quest decks and non-quest decks. This expansion, if you want to play the style blizzard leans you toward, you need the quest card and the archtype (deathrattle, 1 mana, etc.) supporting it. In previous expansions, Blizzard expanded by leading you toward synergy decks (Reno + Kazakus, dragon tribe) so it just built up on your old ones.

I only have one deck created (at all) right now though, Quest Druid. I need to make some other decks to see what's up. My "Ghetto" (Midrange with bad cards) isn't gonna work anymore, I'm gonna have to try for faster aggro decks.

[Wondercrab]

This is kind of why I haven't played the game in a long time. The shift to Wild/Standard created a system where you're much more heavily pressured into spending a lot of money if you want to play a variety of decks. In Standard a lot of your old goodies are going to get rotated out, so you're routinely asked to invest more in the current year's cards on top of whatever the latest expansion is without having as broad of a collection to fall back on. Wild suffers from a similar problem in that your window to get new cards is limited unless you want to spend absurd amounts of gold farming up dust for them.

Either way it's much harder to sit back and casually build up a competitive collection over time these days. The pressure to spend money or miss out thanks to the time-sensitive nature of card purchasing isn't something I'm interested in. I'm not even convinced it's a better business decision over leaving packs/adventures in the store permanently for Wild. Given the kind of gross psychological manipulation Blizzard seem hungry for in their recent monetisation strategies, however, I'm willing to bet their target market is compulsive whales who will spend obscene amounts of money either getting every single card while it's current, or building Wild decks from dust despite the cost.

[Blueobelisk]

This is kind of why I haven't played the game in a long time. The shift to Wild/Standard created a system where you're much more heavily pressured into spending a lot of money if you want to play a variety of decks. In Standard a lot of your old goodies are going to get rotated out, so you're routinely asked to invest more in the current year's cards on top of whatever the latest expansion is without having as broad of a collection to fall back on. Wild suffers from a similar problem in that your window to get new cards is limited unless you want to spend absurd amounts of gold farming up dust for them.

Either way it's much harder to sit back and casually build up a competitive collection over time these days. The pressure to spend money or miss out thanks to the time-sensitive nature of card purchasing isn't something I'm interested in. I'm not even convinced it's a better business decision over leaving packs/adventures in the store permanently for Wild. Given the kind of gross psychological manipulation Blizzard seem hungry for in their recent monetisation strategies, however, I'm willing to bet their target market is compulsive whales who will spend obscene amounts of money either getting every single card while it's current, or building Wild decks from dust despite the cost.

I agree that getting cards right now is a big problem and Blizzard treats this game as a microtransaction scam for people who get addicted and need all cards.

The problem isn't Standard format, though. Blizzard is actually breathing fresh air into the game by having standard.

[NED funded]

I've read this complaint in Reddit a lot, but unless you are a new player, it shouldn't be hard for you to integrate.

Mage: Quest, two epics and like on rare are the only relatively expensive additions into the deck.
Rogue: Their new legendary and the 5 mana 3/4 combo: Destroy a minion or the new quest.
Warrior: Pirate warrior is still running strong, although weak to taunt warrior (Which it's most expensive addition is the quest and some rare cards and two epics)
Druid: Complaints here are valid, but I don't really suggest investing money in this deck, the quest is pretty bad and it seems jade will be the dominant archetype of the class.
Hunter: Complaints here are valid since most of the deck is composed of new cards.
Shaman: Murloc Shaman requires one legendary (the quest) and some commons from the new expansion, you might have an argument for elemental shaman.
Priest: The quest and shadow visions, the rest of the additions are quite easy to get.
Warlock: Both disco and zoo are relatively cheap. The only expensive variation is handlock and that has always been the case.
Paladin: There is also a valid argument here, but cheap variations of the deck are not that hard to find are quite competitive.

So 3 classes that are prohibitively expensive.

[Splenda]

I do think it's more punishing to have bad luck with card packs this time around. Having 15k dust saved up saved me from my awful luck, I just crafted the quest cards and vital epics that I didn't get.

For everyone else, it's a lot more iffy.

[Deleted]

This is kind of why I haven't played the game in a long time. The shift to Wild/Standard created a system where you're much more heavily pressured into spending a lot of money if you want to play a variety of decks. In Standard a lot of your old goodies are going to get rotated out, so you're routinely asked to invest more in the current year's cards on top of whatever the latest expansion is without having as broad of a collection to fall back on. Wild suffers from a similar problem in that your window to get new cards is limited unless you want to spend absurd amounts of gold farming up dust for them.

I guess they just can't win huh?

I don't quite understand how the new system somehow pressures you to spend more money than before. Wild is exactly the same as you would have without the new system. So the old system still exists in the new system; you could play the game exactly how you would've the old system. In fact, people regularly do just that; play old decks that haven't changed much in a long time. Heck, I still regularly play my old dreadsteed and secret paladin in wild.

Hell, I just recently saw someone playing an old fashioned handlock (with molten giants and everything).

The only difference is that you now have a new option, which is Standard, making it easier for newer players to get on board because they don't have a huge backlog of expansions to buy. I'm also dubious about calling it a pressure to continuously invest in the latest expansion. Why?

Because this is a bloody card game! One would imagine that you would want to buy new cards regardless and the older expansions don't phase out THAT fast. It's not like every other month you have to worry about losing an expansion.

[Wondercrab]

I guess they just can't win huh?

I don't quite understand how the new system somehow pressures you to spend more money than before. Wild is exactly the same as you would have without the new system. So the old system still exists in the new system; you could play the game exactly how you would've the old system. In fact, people regularly do just that; play old decks that haven't changed much in a long time. Heck, I still regularly play my old dreadsteed and secret paladin in wild.

Hell, I just recently saw someone playing an old fashioned handlock (with molten giants and everything).

The only difference is that you now have a new option, which is Standard, making it easier for newer players to get on board because they don't have a huge backlog of expansions to buy. I'm also dubious about calling it a pressure to continuously invest in the latest expansion. Why?

Because this is a bloody card game! One would imagine that you would want to buy new cards regardless and the older expansions don't phase out THAT fast. It's not like every other month you have to worry about losing an expansion.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Standard and Wild gameplay-wise. I think they're a great way to keep the game fresh and address meta stagnation in a way that encourages making (and playing with) interesting new cards rather than constantly changing old ones.

The issue is just the time-sensitive availability of packs. Prior to Standard/Wild, for example, I was filling out my Goblins vs Gnomes and Grand Tournament sets nicely, with most of the fun cards gradually making their way into my collection. There were quite a few that I never got, however, and now if I want to play decks with those cards my only option is to sink a ton of money into buying packs and dusting the contents. And GvG/TGT were expansions that I played a lot. It's going to be way harder for players like me to go back and collect cards from older expansions, increasingly so for those who weren't active at the time.

If expansions didn't rotate out of the store this wouldn't be a problem, but right now Blizzard are very keen on emphasising engagement with (and spending on) their games via time-sensitive rewards.

[caractacus]

Once the novelty of the Quests wears off I can't see them being played that much. I've seen a huge drop off in the amount of decks I am meeting running quests. Even myself I dropped the Priest quest from my N'zoth priest and it's doing really well because it's simply not worth it it's just a "win more card"

[Aoyi]

I don't think this one feels more expensive than previous expansions for crafting unless you were a brand new player starting the game. They gave away so much dust because of the cards moved to wild that I was able to craft a few cards on that gift dust alone. Seriously, I didn't have a golden Sylvanis or Ragnaros, but still received over 4700 dust just from the cards that were moved to wild. With that, I crafted a legendary and a few other cards I wanted right away and still have a bunch of dust to go to other cards I want later. I got 27 packs and the only legendary in them was the hunter one (non-quest), but I saw some people positing how they got 4-5 legendaries in their 50 pack pre-orders, so I just had a bit of bad luck (it happens). Still, unless you were a brand new player AND you didn't log in at all in the 2 weeks prior to launch to get all those free gifts, I don't think its that bad.

[minteK917]

Once the novelty of the Quests wears of I can't see them being played that much. I've seen a huge drop off in the amount of decks I am meeting running quests. Even myself I dropped the Priest quest from my N'zoth priest and it's doing really well because it's simply not worth it it's just a "win more card"

Theres no logical reason to make a nzoth deck without the quest... You are playing death rattle minions.. Its like saying you are taking your reno out of the reno deck, but keep gimping yourself with only 1 kind of every card. So terrible fucking example on your side lol. Im not sure how the priest quest is just win more cards. First card draws/gain are always one of the better effect. The priest quest is also a reno that heals your to full hp + 10 extra permanent HP. So if you play nzoth... you are already gimping yourself to death rattle minions.

[caractacus]

Theres no logical reason to make a nzoth deck without the quest... You are playing death rattle minions.. Its like saying you are taking your reno out of the reno deck, but keep gimping yourself with only 1 kind of every card. So terrible fucking example on your side lol. Im not sure how the priest quest is just win more cards. First card draws/gain are always one of the better effect. The priest quest is also a reno that heals your to full hp + 10 extra permanent HP. So if you play nzoth... you are already gimping yourself to death rattle minions.

Because I am playing Reno deck without the Reno........ There are 2 ways you could make a priest quest deck, you can make it anti aggro filling it with deathrattle minions so you get your quest completed early and use the full heal. Problem is it sucks against control. Or you can make a non duplicate deck like this http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/75676...s-nzoth-priest The problem with this deck, as I already said is that it turns the quest into a "win more card" by the time you get to play it you have either won or lost the game and it doesn't have any bearing. Its just an unnecessary card taking up an extra slot and I'd rather have the chance of getting a cleric or a oracle on turn one than something that will be of little use at the end.

[minteK917]

You dont have to play the quest on turn one... You realize this right? Thats some aweful deck that will never work in your link lol. Priest is literally the only quest i still see played, that and warrior quest.

[caractacus]

You dont have to play the quest on turn one... You realize this right? Thats some aweful deck that will never work in your link lol. Priest is literally the only quest i still see played, that and warrior quest.

Yea an awful deck that has 87 up votes......

[Twoddle]

The main focus is on the legendary quests which are at the core of the expansion and all the hype that's why it seems more expensive while the rarity distribution is actually still the same. The adapt mechanic is fun but the quests are dominating everything atm. In MSoG all you needed were Patches, Aya or Kazakus and you were good to go, anything else was a bonus.

[Damajin]

I got 90 packs and DE'd a ton of Wild cards plus the dust from the Hall of Fame cards and I got a few legendaries and crafted a few more, am able to do most of the quest decks besides Priest and I'm ok with that. Playing a few different versions of Shaman and Mage atm, enjoying it quite a bit. Both the quest builds and the Elemental decks are pretty fun.

[Deleted]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like Standard and Wild gameplay-wise. I think they're a great way to keep the game fresh and address meta stagnation in a way that encourages making (and playing with) interesting new cards rather than constantly changing old ones.

You are missing the point, you would be no better or worse off with or without the Standard & Wild split.

The issue is just the time-sensitive availability of packs. Prior to Standard/Wild, for example, I was filling out my Goblins vs Gnomes and Grand Tournament sets nicely, with most of the fun cards gradually making their way into my collection. There were quite a few that I never got, however, and now if I want to play decks with those cards my only option is to sink a ton of money into buying packs and dusting the contents. And GvG/TGT were expansions that I played a lot.

I think you barking up the wrong tree here. I don't think the Standard / Wild format is your problem. It's more the fact that Blizzard simply doesn't offer legacy packs at their store. But I'm willing to bet that you'd still be tempted to call HS expensive because every legacy pack you bought would be another pack that you're not getting from the newer expansions, ergo you could still make the flawed argument that HS pressures you to buy more and more packs.

It's going to be way harder for players like me to go back and collect cards from older expansions, increasingly so for those who weren't active at the time.

I would argue that those who weren't active during the old expansions have a much lesser need for those cards. That's the beauty of the Standard / Wild format; those who come in later do not have a huge backlog of expansions to collect and those who were around can still enjoy those older cards. And it's not like dust is that difficult to come by. If you want a card or two from those expansions, anybody can still craft them.