Patch 7.2 Hotfixes - April 10

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

Are you being serious right now?

Yes /10char

[Mavick]

I mean, BM should not have been doing as well as it should be, given how easy the rotation is and the fact that you can dps on the move. From a design perspective, you have to see it from Blizz's point of view.

Yes, I understand BM wasn't at the top. The point is, it should not be higher than any other ranged class in the game honestly (As much as I hate to say that).

This is the most asinine argument that keeps getting brought up over and over again, yet has no basis in fact. Nowhere has Blizzard ever stated that they intend to limit BM's damage due to silly things like ease of rotation or mobility. This is something people have inferred because in the past BM has paled in comparison to MM and other specs so they decide that the reason must be Blizzards design intent rather than them just fucking up and not balancing classes/specs correctly. Because, gee, that never happens now, does it?

I'm pretty confident when I say that my "assumption" is Blizzards intent is for all classes to do as equal damage as possible while maintaining key unique elements. Not to limit certain specs because of someone's perceived "ease of play". And for the most part this expansion, they haven't done a half bad job since ToV came out. Everytime I look at the statistics page on WCL, yes there's an order because there has to be, but excluding one or two outliers at the top, and an occasional single spec at the bottom, everyone is pretty close together.

[JoshuaNLG]

Can we get rid of the "easy to play classes shouldn't net good dps" arguement?

So because i choose to play a class which might not be seen as difficult compared to the rest of the class roster available, I should be punished permanently for the rest of that classes lifetime simply because "it's easier to play?"

No, that's not how it works.

BM wasn't always considered "the easiest spec to play" so why should someone who has possibly mained BM since vanilla, suddenly be forced to accept that they'll never be top dps simply because the community has deemed their spec faceroll?

[maxiedaxie]

My dps went down from 940k to 880k with mantle + brac + cof.
Changed to mantle + roar + urn 895 and dps went up to 906k.
RIP brac + cof.

what's Urn if i may ask?

[Mang]

what's Urn if i may ask?

trinket from nightbane in kara

[maxiedaxie]

trinket from nightbane in kara

thank you, my first thought the the trinket from jihn

[Feanoro]

Can we get rid of the "easy to play classes shouldn't net good dps" arguement?

So because i choose to play a class which might not be seen as difficult compared to the rest of the class roster available, I should be punished permanently for the rest of that classes lifetime simply because "it's easier to play?"

No, that's not how it works.

BM wasn't always considered "the easiest spec to play" so why should someone who has possibly mained BM since vanilla, suddenly be forced to accept that they'll never be top dps simply because the community has deemed their spec faceroll?

Can we get rid of the "less effort should get the same reward" argument?

You know what, I'm not even going to continue. That post is parody enough on its own, if only for the persecution complex. News flash, the community doesn't decide a spec is faceroll, unless we suddenly have access to the source code.

BM has been one of the easiest most forgiving specs for damn near its entire existence (to the point they had to break castsequence functionality), and even now has less restrictions than any other ranged. It's funny as hell that BM players can, with a completely straight face, brag in one breath about 100% mobility and in the next sob that they're not the absolute gods of damage.

[maxiedaxie]

[QUOTE=Scrya;45323082]Cobra Commander’s Sneaky Snakes (Artifact trait) damage increased by 25%.
Thunderslash (Artifact trait) damage reduced by 50%.
Thunderslash (Artifact trait) deals 30% less damage with the Dire Frenzy talent.

Just to cover my tracks, I have more then a hand full of people telling me theses changes are not lives , and that its for 7.2.5 lol can anyone confirm its already live?

[BergErr]

[QUOTE=maxiedaxie;45349069]

Cobra Commander’s Sneaky Snakes (Artifact trait) damage increased by 25%.
Thunderslash (Artifact trait) damage reduced by 50%.
Thunderslash (Artifact trait) deals 30% less damage with the Dire Frenzy talent.

Just to cover my tracks, I have more then a hand full of people telling me theses changes are not lives , and that its for 7.2.5 lol can anyone confirm its already live?

Its live, just check any logs made in last days and u see thunderslash doing 1-3% dmg.

[Mavick]

Can we get rid of the "less effort should get the same reward" argument?

You know what, I'm not even going to continue. That post is parody enough on its own, if only for the persecution complex. News flash, the community doesn't decide a spec is faceroll, unless we suddenly have access to the source code.

BM has been one of the easiest most forgiving specs for damn near its entire existence (to the point they had to break castsequence functionality), and even now has less restrictions than any other ranged. It's funny as hell that BM players can, with a completely straight face, brag in one breath about 100% mobility and in the next sob that they're not the absolute gods of damage.

That isn't even the point being made.

It isn't about sobbing about not being top on damage, but rather attempting to get it into people's head that this myth about handicapping BM's damage due to some ill-perceived lack of skillcap has no substance to it whatsoever outside of random plebs on MMO-C complaining about it from time to time.

[Eapoe]

Can we get rid of the "less effort should get the same reward" argument?

You know what, I'm not even going to continue. That post is parody enough on its own, if only for the persecution complex. News flash, the community doesn't decide a spec is faceroll, unless we suddenly have access to the source code.

BM has been one of the easiest most forgiving specs for damn near its entire existence (to the point they had to break castsequence functionality), and even now has less restrictions than any other ranged. It's funny as hell that BM players can, with a completely straight face, brag in one breath about 100% mobility and in the next sob that they're not the absolute gods of damage.

Last I've checked damn near every spec is easy to play in Legion. Almost no class has over 3-5 buttons to push. Last I checked SV hunters and Elemental Shamans (freezing ice build or whatever it's called) are 2 of the most in depth specs to play, and while their damage isn't atrocious, they get beat by the so called "easy" specs.
So if we're going to throw around the "shouldn't do equal damage for being easy to play" excuse, Blizzard might as well nerf DH/Mage/Rogue/Warrior/etc (I'm not typing every class).

[Simonak]

What make me sad is playing perfect and keeping 3 stack of direfrenzy make the thunderslash dmg go from arround 4% to under 2%.
This is not crying its just bad blizzard implementation or a bug.
I have no shoulders yet after 8 leg. and trying to keeping 3 stack is hard and you get punished for it GG.

[Scrya]

i want to point out again, what annoys me so much about these changes.

here is my krosus mythic kill from April 10. (prenerf) 818k dps



this is my krosus mythic kill from April 12. (postnerf) 800k dps



Overall I didn't loose much dps on ST fights (and I don't mind, I even agree that melee dps should output more damage than ranged on a ST fight where ranged are supposed to handle some mechanics) , BUT take a closer look:

The problem for me is not the Thunderlash nerf on default although it went from 8,4% of my dps to 1,4% (keep in mind though, i switched from bracers+convergence to belt+arcanocrystal)
The saddening part is Cobra Commander. They pseudobuffed a pretty broken spell by 25%. A spell that did 2,08% of my dps BEFORE they buffed it and 1% of my dps AFTER they buffed it (with 3 Cobra
shots cast more).
This is such a lazy and stupid trait, it is beyond my imagination.
TBH they should have nerfed thunderlash only for Dire-Frenzy and removed Cobra Commander completely.

Thunderlash opened new possibilities and allowed us to make the legendary bracers viable, as an option to shoulders+belt. It also increased the skillcap of the spec a bit by timing aspect of the wild with df stacks etc.

TL;DR
Cobra Commander is crap
Thunderlash was consistent


Edit:
Wow. some of the posts here are complete trash. Stop the flame please and contribute useful input on ways to deal with the changes.
I automatically assume you are a 10yo crybaby when someone complains about "blabla shouldnt do blabla dps, cause blabla", very mature indeed. Please make useful posts or don't even post at all here....

[JoshuaNLG]

Can we get rid of the "less effort should get the same reward" argument?

You know what, I'm not even going to continue. That post is parody enough on its own, if only for the persecution complex. News flash, the community doesn't decide a spec is faceroll, unless we suddenly have access to the source code.

BM has been one of the easiest most forgiving specs for damn near its entire existence (to the point they had to break castsequence functionality), and even now has less restrictions than any other ranged. It's funny as hell that BM players can, with a completely straight face, brag in one breath about 100% mobility and in the next sob that they're not the absolute gods of damage.

Considering you have a signature stating that Marksmanship is the way it's meant to be played, you clearly have no bias at all towards BM, not one bit, nope. Not even worth a proper response, but news flash, MM isn't hard to play either.

[sultangurde]

@Scrya

You are right, problem with Cobra Commander is not damage, but 10% proc chance. Sometimes it just doesnt matter how many cobras you shot the damage is pathetic. Rng on top of rng.

[Kirbypro]

Lets not get distracted here, both thunderslash and cobra commander are shitty spells.

Thunderslash has no business being baked into AotW, if anything it should have modified Titans Thunder. And it was mindbogglingly powerful, as soon as I got the trait and tried it out, I knew it was getting nerfed.

Cobra commander is so bad, I don't even know if it procs, I don't care if it procs, I have no idea what happens when it procs, it just shows up in my logs as 1% dmg done. I don't see any visuals, no audio or whatever. Personally, i thought it was going to have an interesting animation like Egg of Serpentrix or Surv's Spitting Cobra. No, it has nothing.

[Feanoro]

Considering you have a signature stating that Marksmanship is the way it's meant to be played, you clearly have no bias at all towards BM, not one bit, nope. Not even worth a proper response, but news flash, MM isn't hard to play either.

And that signature was worth every second it took to make for how many times it has triggered BM hunters. Did it occur that it simply means I've usually enjoyed MM the most? Nah, let's fire up the BM persecution complex and go for "You're racist against BM!" I served my "they make commanding the pure shit AI top because panda reasons" sentence, thanks. Under normal (i.e. not gated to hell behind AP and legendaries) circumstances, I play what's best for my raid, whether I personally enjoy it or not.

To the other poster, you want to talk myths? The biggest myth here is that the community's perception of a spec's skillcap affects its damage. Brace yourself for a red pill, but it's the Blizzard devs' perception of spec skillcap that does that. They say via actions if not words that mobility is a perk, and WoW is a game of (WORLDS fewer than it used to be) tradeoffs.

[Mavick]

To the other poster, you want to talk myths? The biggest myth here is that the community's perception of a spec's skillcap affects its damage. Brace yourself for a red pill, but it's the Blizzard devs' perception of spec skillcap that does that. They say via actions if not words that mobility is a perk, and WoW is a game of (WORLDS fewer than it used to be) tradeoffs.

Their actions have very clearly led us to a state where BM damage is superior too, or at worst, on equal footing with MM damage particularly on ST. And this isn't even a new thing. People forget, I'm sure, but the biggest reason MM was preferred over BM at the start of Legion was BM's dependence on both legendaries that were going to be a crap shoot that early in and later artifact traits that just weren't accessible then either.

[Muapa]

I find myself browing the forums lately at work so figured i would make an account, on an earlier topic of BM or MM it was stated that thunderlash was 10% of the guys overall dps and 25% on aoe heavy fights, but in all seriousness when will Sv be viable compared to other melee specs and not just hunters

[Kilek]

I find myself browing the forums lately at work so figured i would make an account, on an earlier topic of BM or MM it was stated that thunderlash was 10% of the guys overall dps and 25% on aoe heavy fights, but in all seriousness when will Sv be viable compared to other melee specs and not just hunters

I think survival was a stupid test from blizzard side.. and they will probably revert it back to range next expac. Hardly anyone plays survival in PVE