Want to truly make America great?

[Chain Chungus]

Since retro is all the rave these days, let's hear what 1947 America would have to say about 2017 America:

[Deleted]

"If you want to make America great again, don't listen to X, listen to Y"

[PC2]

I stopped at "lots of people". America should go for tech/automation leadership and not overpopulation.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Lots of people that still believe those slogans.

[GennGreymane]

I stopped at "lots of people". America should go for tech/automation leadership and not overpopulation.

You;re a bit late by about 70 years, but okay.

[jimboa24]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and again, and again. The beef with illegal immigration (or as the politically correct insist on calling it, "undocumented" immigration) IS NOT, and never was a beef with immigration as a whole. The right's problem is with the idea that people think they are entitled to move here on a whim and refuse to go through the process of immigration, or try to cheat the system by coming on a visa or green card, letting it expire and refusing to either leave or go through the process as they are supposed to.

The left is desperate to hijack the narrative and twist it into a perceived war on immigration itself, because the case for immigration is a no-brainer, easy argument to make. It's a lie that the right wants to abolish immigration, plain and simple. The right's position is that if you really, desperately want to immigrate here, you can and should do it. It's not easy or simple, and it basically requires you to dedicate your life into investing in your new country. But isn't that the entire idea of becoming a citizen of a new country? Fuck the left and anyone who tries to make you think that the right is against immigration cart blanch. They're liars.

Sure, there's a few nutters on the extreme right who think that all immigration should be abolished, but there are also zealots on the left who are completely enthralled by globalism and think that borders shouldn't exist either. Neither one is a reasonable representation of either political side as a whole.

[jimboa24]

Why should you be entitled to remain here just because you were born inside the imaginary line when people better and more valuable than you can't get in? Why should America have to carry you through content when we could replace you with better people?

Because real life doesn't work like it works with raids.

[PC2]

You;re a bit late by about 70 years, but okay.

I'm talking about right now, America is great. It is the OP who has the policy issue.

[Nadiru]

You really want to make America great again? Let asset prices collapse so we can actually finish the cycle of creative destruction that began under Ford.

[jimboa24]

No kidding. That was assumed the moment I asked the question. Now if you'd like to give an actual justification instead of some lame cop-out, go ahead. Otherwise I'll just chalk it up to an inability to do so on your part.

No. A stupid, retarded concept like yours isn't worth my time explaining in great detail why citizenship in a country doesn't work like filling slots in a raid works. And you fucking know it, so cram it with the fucking retarded "DURRR, U WON'T EXPLAIN WHY BECAUSE U CAAAAAN'T!" bullshit.

If I were to support an amnesty plan...it would be a trade. We got some illegals here that bust their ass to make a living, and we have some legals here that refuse to.

Another edgelord. And who decides who's refusing to "bust their ass"? You? What is the criteria for "busting your ass"? Get da fuck outta here with this drivel.

[NED funded]

Why should you be entitled to remain here just because you were born inside the imaginary line when people better and more valuable than you can't get in? Why should America have to carry you through content when we could replace you with better people?

Because the duty of the government is to ensure the welfare of its citizens?

[May90]

You could time-travel to 3,000 BC and see the same thing there. It's not like methods have changed, and it's not like people started learning from history.

[Bodakane]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and again, and again. The beef with illegal immigration (or as the politically correct insist on calling it, "undocumented" immigration) IS NOT, and never was a beef with immigration as a whole. The right's problem is with the idea that people think they are entitled to move here on a whim and refuse to go through the process of immigration, or try to cheat the system by coming on a visa or green card, letting it expire and refusing to either leave or go through the process as they are supposed to.

The left is desperate to hijack the narrative and twist it into a perceived war on immigration itself, because the case for immigration is a no-brainer, easy argument to make. It's a lie that the right wants to abolish immigration, plain and simple. The right's position is that if you really, desperately want to immigrate here, you can and should do it. It's not easy or simple, and it basically requires you to dedicate your life into investing in your new country. But isn't that the entire idea of becoming a citizen of a new country? Fuck the left and anyone who tries to make you think that the right is against immigration cart blanch. They're liars.

Sure, there's a few nutters on the extreme right who think that all immigration should be abolished, but there are also zealots on the left who are completely enthralled by globalism and think that borders shouldn't exist either. Neither one is a reasonable representation of either political side as a whole.

Bullshit.

You don't even know what the "process of citizenship" is. If you did, you'd know it's virtually impossible nowadays. You can't become a citizen unless you get a work visa, marry an American or literally win a lottery.

In fact, the powers that be on the right, don;t actually want to do anything sigificant about illegal immigration because the food production industry needs illegals desperately and they have HUGE republican lobbies.

[PC2]

You could time-travel to 3,000 BC and see the same thing there. It's not like methods have changed, and it's not like people started learning from history.

Indeed it was similar with ancient civilizations, barbarians banging at the gates.

[Omega10]

You really want to make America great again? Let asset prices collapse so we can actually finish the cycle of creative destruction that began under Ford.

That will happen soon enough. I'm not convinced it will be that great though.

[jimboa24]

The idea isn't limited to raids and phrasing it like that was a joke. It works like this in business too, where you don't get complete job security just because you were found in the building one day. If they feel they can get better value out of replacing you, you're gone. So again, stop flailing and answer the question: Why should you be entitled to remain here and benefit from being here by virtue of your birth, even if we could give your "spot" in the country to a more valuable immigrant?

Because a country is not a business. And that's how every country in existence works. You start out as a citizen of the country you are born in. If you want to relocate, then you have to gain the consent of the country you wish to relocate to, and said country can decide its own criteria for who can immigrate into the country. You know this, don't play this fucking dumb. You don't have an inherent right to become a citizen of another country - if that country does not want to let you in, it does not have to. If a country only wants to allow in new citizens that it feels will be a benefit to its economy, then that is that country's fucking sovereign right. It's not about this childish concept of "limited slots," because there aren't limited slots. It's about deciding who can come here who isn't already here, and what they can contribute to the country.

Got a problem with it? Want to kick out people you see as useless to naturalize illegal immigrants? Then try to gain support for that concept and amend the Constitution to kick out natural born citizens and let in illegal immigrants. Go on, I fucking dare you.

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Bullshit.

You don't even know what the "process of citizenship" is. If you did, you'd know it's virtually impossible nowadays. You can't become a citizen unless you get a work visa, marry an American or literally win a lottery.

In fact, the powers that be on the right, don;t actually want to do anything sigificant about illegal immigration because the food production industry needs illegals desperately and they have HUGE republican lobbies.

Yes, I do know what it is. Calling it "virtually impossible" is a fucking sham. Difficult =/= impossible. It takes years, and it SHOULD take years. If you want to become a citizen, then it should take a long-ass time because it's...you know, fucking moving permanently to a new country and living your life there.

As for criteria being difficult, well, that's our right to be selective of who we allow to immigrate here. If you disagree, then vote in people that you think will change the criteria for immigration. That's what fucking Congress is for.

[Bodakane]

Yes, I do know what it is. Calling it "virtually impossible" is a fucking sham. Difficult =/= impossible. It takes years, and it SHOULD take years. If you want to become a citizen, then it should take a long-ass time because it's...you know, fucking moving permanently to a new country and living your life there.

As for criteria being difficult, well, that's our right to be selective of who we allow to immigrate here. If you disagree, then vote in people that you think will change the criteria for immigration. That's what fucking Congress is for.

You're not understanding...no one is complaining about how long it takes. To get to the point where it takes long, you have to win a lottery or get a work visa or marry an american. It is not set up like the old days of Ellis Island.

[Deleted]

Why should you be entitled to remain here and benefit from being here by virtue of your birth, even if we could give your "spot" in the country to a more valuable immigrant?

It's essentially a contract between the state and the person. A contract persons enter without signing into, yet gives jurisdiction to the state over the person. "Value" is hard to gauge on this relationship, but citizens and nationals are generally an asset on which many resources and investment are poured. As the state is interested in its own survival through the generations, it offers privileges to its subjects. Honoring that relationship from birth is the last payment that the state does to each person's parents.
Feel free to design a state that can drop nationals at-will; not sure who would be interested.

[DrStiglit]

Your posts are getting lengthier, but are still no closer to providing an actual answer to the question. Most recently you explained how it currently works, not why it should work that way.

Because most people aren't sociopaths and that isn't how society developed. People act and develop beliefs based on feelings and empathy not logic. What you say has merit, it's just not how most people think. You would need to start society new with that thought process in mind.

[jimboa24]

Your posts are getting lengthier, but are still no closer to providing an actual answer to the question. Most recently you explained how it currently works, not why it should work that way.

Because there is no better way. You want to kick out someone who's born here and lived here all their life and relocate them for someone who was NOT born here? Where are you going to fucking deport them to? There is no where to send them. Why it should work this way is fucking obvious, and you know it. There is no other, better way to make it work. Not even to mention the fact that doing so violates their Constitutional rights as citizens of the United States.

You're like a fucking five year old, setting up a ridiculous, fantasy scenario that could not and would not work in real life and demanding that someone explain why it doesn't work that way. "WHY ARE MOUNTAINS NOT MADE OF ICE CREAM?!? YOU'RE ONLY EXPLAINING THAT THEY'RE NOT MADE OF ICE CREAM NOW!!! TELL ME WHY MOUNTAINS SHOULD NOT BE MADE OF ICE CREAM!!!"

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Don't help him.

Fuck you. You're being intentionally retarded and you fucking know it.