Dragon Ball Z Fan Thread!

[Immitis]

Frieza trains for like a week goes from being 1 shotted by trunks to almost beating Goku. Just fine.

Androids already stronger than base frieza train for who the fuck knows how long and don't get killed by Goku's pinky OH MEH GAD HORRIBLE PLOT

Tbh I don't even give a fuck about power levels ever since frieza did that bullshit I just wanna see cool people do cool things

[Adramalech]

People care way too much about power levels. It's Dragon Ball, good writing and consistent plot points aren't something this series has ever been known for. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Gohan mentioned a few episodes ago that 17 and 18 were altered on a cellular level. We haven't seen 17 since the Cell saga, outside of that one shot of him contributing to the Spirit Bomb. 18 hasn't really been relevant in terms of combat ever since her own saga ended, and 17 hasn't appeared at all. We have never seen them train. They can make 17 as strong as the plot demands him to be because of how little information we have on how androids work other than the endless stamina thing.

You know what we can actually conclude from this? Between how strong 17 got, and how successful Cell was, Gero really was a freaking one in a million genius.

[rarhyx]

Power lvls which freezer used aren't linear and are bs
they should do it like in one of the fan mangas with a new scaling, example with ranks:

Z+: whis, vados and co
Z: all the gods, ssb vegito (and maybe ssb goku with kaioken)
S+: Goku + Vegeta with ssb, Black, zamasu, Hit
S: Goku, vegeta, gohan, buu, golden freezer
A+: Picollo, tien, krillin, 17, 18
A: gohan before golden freezer thing,
B+: perfect Cell
B: Roshi
...
F:Radditz, yamcha

don't stone me with that, I know this isn't a perfect scale and I didn't really think about it
it's just an example what could/should be used with PL

[Dontrike]

right, I forgot Goku and Vegeta only stood around the beach sipping pina coladas and mai-tais since the cell games...

You have to admit though during the Black saga that things went crazy. Goku and Vegeta were getting power increases left and right, and Black as well, that things got to be a little too much. By all accounts there shouldn't be any character to go up against them since their power levels only kept jumping every few episodes, but for this upcoming saga the other characters needed to be able to do something. People talk about how crazy power levels got in the past, with Tien holding back Cell 2 or with all these God powers, but the Black saga is literally where things got truly crazy in the power level department. How many times were Goku/Vegeta or Black weaker than the other(s) and suddenly became far superior in no time at all?

Honestly, I'm fine with side characters getting to do something, or anything for that matter, that isn't reactions shots and being a bystander. They put themselves in a corner in the story. Had the tournament been farther away than 40 hours then we could see them train and earn this, but apparently for many they train for a day or behind the scenes and got much stronger out of nowhere. Understandably the fans are a bit peeved, but they will just have to let it go because there has been far worse things in the suspension of disbelief department, like when a villain turned into an evil cloud and a god had to erase an entire universe to save the day.

[GennGreymane]

My Scale

Hercule - Monaka
Omni King - Grand Priest
Omni Guards
Angels
Gods of Destruction - Vegito Blue - Merged Zamasu
SSB Goku
Jiren, Toppo, Vegeta, Goku, Hit, Frieza, Future Trunks (soon to me more)
Cabbe, Frost, Magetta, Gotanks
Gohan (current), Piccolo, Botamo, Buu (fat), South Supreme kai (he was stated to be pretty strong)
Cell, Dabura
Androids, Goten, Kid Trunks, Supreme Kai (our current one)
Tien
Krillin
Yamcha
Roshi

[McFuu]

I don't have a problem with the powerlevels as long as I make one mental adjustment, and everything makes better sense.

SSB isn't this huge powerlevel boost that people are assuming. It isn't Goku and Vegeta that are OP, it's people's perception of SSB. It goes back to when SSG was used with Beerus. Vegeta in SS2 could hit and knock Beerus around before he burned out of energy, much the same way that Beerus was fighting Goku as SSG, but Goku could maintain the fight and push slightly higher. SSB is essentially SSG, the use of "god" ki mixed with the users normal ki for fighting. Beerus barely used his power in the fight with Goku, some BS with 10%-40% is thrown around but in reality there is no way that much was used, probably 5-10% of his full power.
Otherwise if you look at it like Goku pushed Beerus to 40%-50% like some people do, than Beerus would have been surpassed by Hit and Goku easily. Goku using Kaioken x10 in his SSB form after receiving training from Whis would be able to overpower full powered Beerus, using the Kame wave which magnifies power by 20-30x the users maximum ki, Beerus should be able to be killed decently easily by Goku.

But none of this is possible. Goku can't match Beerus and Goku and Vegeta are no where near Whis.

Lower your expectations of SSB and the series makes sense again. SSB is somewhere near to slightly above SS3. Always has been, shit writing and wording of dialogue when Beerus was first introduced led to everyone assuming that SSB is some be all end all power level. It makes Frieza make sense at his current strength, he was a prodigy who never trained, no reason a little training wouldn't bring him to a much higher level. He is also a race we don't fully understand, much like Majin Buu. Majin Buu never trained, the Kid Buu that showed up was exactly as strong as the Kai's expected him to be when they last encountered him thousands of years before. Buu training makes perfect sense being able to get much stronger. Android 17 and 18 were incredibly strong when introduced, near SS2 strong. Over a time skip it's possible for 17 to get stronger. As long as you understand that SSB isn't SS8, it's more like a better version of SS3.

[Deleted]

Fits together so good lol

[Skorpionss]

Just found this on YT and it actually does make sense if you think about it.
TL;DW: Basically SSB allows the user to more easily control his Ki Output rather than just serve as a straight power boost. That's how even in Blue Goku was able to "nerf" himself to the level of Krillin and 17. That, and ofc Marketing xD

[MrPaladinGuy]

Regarding the first one, This was the first video like this I've ever watched and I watched it a few days ago, but it brings up points I've thought of, but not all of them such as;

The Grand Priest doesn't need a staff to do the things the Angels/Kais/GoD can.
No Kai/Angel/GoD seems to have an ability he doesn't, even Omni-King.
Can create portals for instant transportation whereas Omni-King can't, but his bodyguards can.
Can presumably make a universe or something from nothing.

[DemonHunter18]

I don't have a problem with the powerlevels as long as I make one mental adjustment, and everything makes better sense.

SSB isn't this huge powerlevel boost that people are assuming. It isn't Goku and Vegeta that are OP, it's people's perception of SSB. It goes back to when SSG was used with Beerus. Vegeta in SS2 could hit and knock Beerus around before he burned out of energy, much the same way that Beerus was fighting Goku as SSG, but Goku could maintain the fight and push slightly higher. SSB is essentially SSG, the use of "god" ki mixed with the users normal ki for fighting. Beerus barely used his power in the fight with Goku, some BS with 10%-40% is thrown around but in reality there is no way that much was used, probably 5-10% of his full power.
Otherwise if you look at it like Goku pushed Beerus to 40%-50% like some people do, than Beerus would have been surpassed by Hit and Goku easily. Goku using Kaioken x10 in his SSB form after receiving training from Whis would be able to overpower full powered Beerus, using the Kame wave which magnifies power by 20-30x the users maximum ki, Beerus should be able to be killed decently easily by Goku.

But none of this is possible. Goku can't match Beerus and Goku and Vegeta are no where near Whis.

Lower your expectations of SSB and the series makes sense again. SSB is somewhere near to slightly above SS3. Always has been, shit writing and wording of dialogue when Beerus was first introduced led to everyone assuming that SSB is some be all end all power level. It makes Frieza make sense at his current strength, he was a prodigy who never trained, no reason a little training wouldn't bring him to a much higher level. He is also a race we don't fully understand, much like Majin Buu. Majin Buu never trained, the Kid Buu that showed up was exactly as strong as the Kai's expected him to be when they last encountered him thousands of years before. Buu training makes perfect sense being able to get much stronger. Android 17 and 18 were incredibly strong when introduced, near SS2 strong. Over a time skip it's possible for 17 to get stronger. As long as you understand that SSB isn't SS8, it's more like a better version of SS3.

makes sense somewhat.

[McFuu]

Just found this on YT and it actually does make sense if you think about it.
TL;DW: Basically SSB allows the user to more easily control his Ki Output rather than just serve as a straight power boost. That's how even in Blue Goku was able to "nerf" himself to the level of Krillin and 17. That, and ofc Marketing xD

The issue I've had with this theory is Good, Vegeta, Etc always had control over their ki, regardless of being SS or not. Look at the Vegeta vs Cabba fight. Vegeta went SS and didn't kill Cabba, he gently pushed him to unlock SS. We all know that a SS Vegeta is immensely stronger than Cabba.
I'm not debating that usage of SSB allows for better ki control. But the theory is saying Goku is holding way back, and the 17 fight made him so holding back so much. Look at it that SSB isn't a ridiculous powerlevel and of course he wasnt going all out against Killing, 17 just made him fight closer to blues maximum, which isn't as high as people are assuming.
Let's be real, Krillin isn't weak. He's near Cell level of strength. He fought the Cell Jr's which were very strong.

[GennGreymane]

Honestly, isnt Blue perfect ki control? He surely can manipulate his ki

[Skorpionss]

I doubt blue is perfect ki control when super sayian grade 4 is supposed to be perfect ki control.

Also RIP Genn once again.

Super Sayian 4 is not canon as of right now...

[MrPaladinGuy]

Genn banned again, everyone page him in random threads just for fun.

@GennGreymane

[DemonHunter18]

I doubt blue is perfect ki control when super sayian grade 4 is supposed to be perfect ki control.

Also RIP Genn once again.

it was stated in one of the episodes about their Ki control in base and SSB.

[derpkitteh]

wow... please tell me there's not a whole lot of episodes like the one i just watched tonight? dub episode 15.

god, "Mr. Satan" sounds so totally stupid compared to "Hercule".

[Lahis]

It seems like they could have fit last week's episode and this week's episode into 1.

Last week's was fine. This week had much padding to fill out full ep.

[Paarthurnax]

So in essence SSB Goku is basically Superman. He's as strong or weak as the story needs him to be in order to make things interesting.

[Mysterymask]

By that logic any, most protagonists are the same as superman.

Quoted for Truth....

[GennGreymane]

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Zamasu sounds like hes gonna tell me that I cant do that star fox