Upcoming Mythic Keystone Changes

[Loveliest]

as someone who does +10-12 carries with 4/5 guildies and a pug key new changes suck.

I guess that was the point? I think Blizz doesn't really think that being carried means playing the game. I think Blizz thinks that players should play their appropriate difficulty, meaning:
- undergeared people should do low level M+. They shouldn't get gear they didn't 'earn' (by whatever standard)
- geared people should do high level M+. They shouldn't farm lower level ones for 'easy' loot (= grind, time spent, but not effort). Nor should they boost people.
This is why Blizz didn't expect that many people doing M+, because they thought a casual player won't do M+. They thought the casual player wouldn't be offered this 'boost' and therefore provide an endless supply of low level keys for high geared players. The causal player might have done his +2 and stop but why wouldn't he do his +9 if he gets 3-chests from a few runs for 'free'.

The fact that humans in general try to get the most by putting the least effort in expands to the game is not a premise Blizz wants to understand. They try to 'fix' people this way. I sometimes wish it weren't so, that games would stay 'clean' of this human behaviour since the rewards aren't really tangible, but that's a hope long dead.

[Lostprophet]

I don't quite understand it, so this means..

1) We no longer have a 2-3 chest timer, there's only 1 timer and 1 chest.

2) The number of loot shared among the group is no longer 3 chests X 2 loot each chest but now 1 chest X 3 loot?

1) The timer system doesn't change. But it doesn't give you extra chest/loot anymore. it will be always 1 chest. The result only determines your next key level.
You only need to be in time to get 3 loot.

2) In Time = 3 loot, not in Time = 2 loot

This change makes low level key less appealing since you will get only half of the loot (3 instead of 6) but higher lvl keys you usually don't 3 or 2 chest wield yield more if you make it in time.

[Eats Compost]

as someone who does +10-12 carries with 4/5 guildies and a pug key new changes suck.

reducing change at lego by 2/3 (really the only reason other than AP we do carries)

For us time is the commodity. The way these changes are, we will likely stop carrying pug keys and almost exclusively do 5/5 player guild keys. Which is a big blow to the casual players who look for these carries each week for the weekly chest.

Carries were never, EVER Blizzard's intention for M+, and what you've just described - going in as a 5/5 guild group and doing content that is appropriate for your gear/skill level - is exactly what Blizzard wanted M+ to be. The only reason that this low-level M+ key spam is a thing is because they dropped the ball and heavily overincentivized quick, overgeared runs.

[Deleted]

These are cool changes.

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What's the issue? If you complete the dungeon, you get 3 pieces of loot anyways. So if those 3 pieces of loot are no longer split among 3 chests, how can you act like this is a significant change? It's better because that means we are guaranteed 3 pieces of loot for completing rather than just AP/Gold and no guaranteed of loot.

I didn't know that 3 =6. But thank you for explaining that to me!

[Deleted]

If they do make it 2-3 pieces -per- person it would actually be smart. Consider how hard it is to get an upgrade from M+ these days and how harder it will become once ToS comes out.

Two slots are for legendaries.
Four slots will be for T20.
Two probable slots for T19.
Raid trinkets are pretty much not something a dungeon trinket can replace.

Good luck in having gear actually drop, then it being in one of the free slots you can actually afford to remove an item, and then being titanforged.

[Eats Compost]

System is working fine and has a higher pool of players than you thought?

We better make sweeping loot changes and remove the extra chest aspect so players only play how we want them to.

The system doesn't have a high pool of players because it's good or fun, it has a high pool of players because it has great rewards for content that players are way overgeared for. This change has been coming from day one, and the only thing that's surprising is how damn long it took them to make it.

Now people will actually be incentivized to participate in the highest level of M+ that they can manage, which is perfect.

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If they do make it 2-3 pieces -per- person it would actually be smart. Consider how hard it is to get an upgrade from M+ these days and how harder it will become once ToS comes out.

Two slots are for legendaries.
Four slots will be for T20.
Two probable slots for T19.
Raid trinkets are pretty much not something a dungeon trinket can replace.

Good luck in having gear actually drop, then it being in one of the free slots you can actually afford to remove an item, and then being titanforged.

The idea is that they want people do be participating in M+ levels that are relatively hard for them, which translates into M+ levels where they'd previously only be getting 1 chest. That's why the amount of items seems so low, but it's actually a buff in those kinds of environments.

Remember, the only reason that multiple chests was ever a thing as because they expected keystones to be a more valuable commodity, and they didn't want people to feel like they "missed out" on something by having their keystone jump multiple levels at once.

2-3 items for the group isn't that bad if you're looking at M+ items where it's probably going to be upgrades, as opposed to a deluge of quick loot where you're hoping for titanforges. That said, I wouldn't mind if they bumped it up to 4 pieces.

[schwarzkopf]

Yeah that's on you. Not anyone else.

Today I learned that Mythic +10 are soloable... wow, care to post some videos on that one.

Think about what you said, and how absolutely idiotic it is

[sonalita]

It's better because that means we are guaranteed 3 pieces of loot for completing rather than just AP/Gold and no guaranteed of loot.

You do know it's 3 pieces in the chest, not 3 pieces per player right? So with this system, the group is getting half the amount of loot that you would have by 3 chesting the run.

[Shandalar]

Getting 50% loot from 3 chests, nice idea and making the game enjoyable. Now trying to get a concrete loot from a dungeon is near to impossible, nice work Blizzard.

[kaintk]

what i love is the 2-3 item 100% dropping, presently you can go for a 3 chest timer but have no item at all, good step forward only for that

[Emerald Archer]

Today I learned that Mythic +10 are soloable... wow, care to post some videos on that one.

Think about what you said, and how absolutely idiotic it is

Lol, you're a fool.

It is on you, anyone can go do a +10, they just need to put the effort in to find a group. Others can find groups easily, why can't you? Clearly doing something wrong.

[sonalita]

what i love is the 2-3 item 100% dropping, presently you can go for a 3 chest timer but have no item at all, good step forward only for that

Ummm no, it's 2 or 3 items in the chest, not 2 or 3 items per player. so if you would have 3 chested pre nerf, you get 6 items in the chests (3 chests 2 items per chest) now, you get one chest containing g just 3 items for the group

[Grusalugg]

what i love is the 2-3 item 100% dropping, presently you can go for a 3 chest timer but have no item at all, good step forward only for that

It was 6 items for your group if you 3 chested.
It is, with this change, 3 items for your group if you make it in time.

Both situations, you can get loot or no loot. But first one had 6 loot.

So no. You don't love it.

[Deleted]

snip

Now people will actually be incentivized to participate in the highest level of M+ that they can manage, which is perfect.
snip

Nope they aren't.

People doing it for loot will now form a guild group of 5. Play a +10 in 3-chest time, go into the new dungeon, put key in, reset (x3), then play the next +10 in 3-chest time. Rinse, repeat. You now effectively have removed the need to rely on other people's keys, so you can purely farm in your own 5-man group. EDIT: for clarity, +10 is in today's world. If max moved to +15, then it's the same on that level.

People doing it for prestige will still run high keys in their 5-man group. No change, except for maybe more loot for them, but mostly, they are the ones that don't need the loot anyway, except titanforged.

People farming AP will do the same as the first group, just prioritize the "long" dungeons (HoV, Arc). The additional AP you get in higher keys is just not worth the additional time you spend on them.

[Deleted]

Cut out the elitist middle man Blizz .
Just let people que for these runs .
Now you give way to much control to some elitist boy/girl that thinks you need 30 lvls more then what the reward is .
Same with HC raid runs cut out those "link the curve " twats that complain every time things get easier in the game but themselves seek the path of least resistance .

[Grusalugg]

What most of you muppets are forgetting is that this is going on PTR for OUR testing so they can adjust it after how we give feedback...seriously..most of you are morons just by looking at your comments.

And what do you think this is dumbfuck?

[Deleted]

Cut out the elitist middle man Blizz .
Just let people que for these runs .
Now you give way to much control to some elitist boy/girl that thinks you need 30 lvls more then what the reward is .
Same with HC raid runs cut out those "link the curve " twats that complain every time things get easier in the game but themselves seek the path of least resistance .

I don't think it's elitist if you want to raid with people on your same level. If I'm overgearing a Raid, I certainly don't want to carry some low-geared people through a PUG, as this is just wasting my time.

If you're complaining about these requirements, then either you are one of those low-geared ones that wants to be carried, or you're just too lazy to open your own PuG.

[Deleted]

So what will the Ilvl bracket be?
Are we still going to see the best loot drop at +10 or will we have any incentive to run higher keys at all?
I'm asking this as a 2400 m+ player. If these changes go through and you continue to cap the ilvl at lower keys(Anything below 25) people will just continue to farm at the cap level.
890 gear should be rewarded at +13ish difficulty. At +20ish we should probably see 900 gear. At +25 we should be seeing +910 or even 915 gear drop consistently.

[Artemol]

Exploitable as fuck:
Scenario #1.
Player 1 has two accounts.
Player 1, acc A - Gets.. lets say... +15 Upper Karazhan.
Player 1 acc B - Needs a certain item from Upper Kara.

Player 1, finds 3 People.
Player 1, invites Acc A and B to the same group with 3 Random people.

Player 1 + Team, 4 mans +15 Upper Kara, untill Last boss.
Player 1 Acc A(Keyholder) Leaves Before the last boss.

Player 1 + Team 4 mans last boss.

Player 1 acc A(Keyholder) Technically doesnt finish the dungeon, aka his key depletes(as on live)

With this new change, Player 1 acc B would recieve the same Dungeon-key, just 1 level lower.

Just putting it out there.

[Eats Compost]

Nope they aren't.

People doing it for loot will now form a guild group of 5. Play a +10 in 3-chest time, go into the new dungeon, put key in, reset (x3), then play the next +10 in 3-chest time. Rinse, repeat. You now effectively have removed the need to rely on other people's keys, so you can purely farm in your own 5-man group. EDIT: for clarity, +10 is in today's world. If max moved to +15, then it's the same on that level.

People doing it for prestige will still run high keys in their 5-man group. No change, except for maybe more loot for them, but mostly, they are the ones that don't need the loot anyway, except titanforged.

People farming AP will do the same as the first group, just prioritize the "long" dungeons (HoV, Arc). The additional AP you get in higher keys is just not worth the additional time you spend on them.

I'm thinking mostly about the people who are doing it for loot, so the people doing it at the max M+ loot level aren't really a concern to me, because they're operating at the highest reward level anyway. Doing it for AP is another kettle of fish altogether.

If +10/+15 is the cap for reward ilvl, then I don't see cycling through them as a problem. It's still a far better situation than it was today.

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Exploitable as fuck:
Scenario #1.
Player 1 has two accounts.
Player 1, acc A - Gets.. lets say... +15 Upper Karazhan.
Player 1 acc B - Needs a certain item from Upper Kara.

Player 1, finds 3 People.
Player 1, invites Acc A and B to the same group with 3 Random people.

Player 1 + Team, 4 mans +15 Upper Kara, untill Last boss.
Player 1 Acc A(Keyholder) Leaves Before the last boss.

Player 1 + Team 4 mans last boss.

Player 1 acc A(Keyholder) Technically doesnt finish the dungeon, aka his key depletes(as on live)

With this new change, Player 1 acc B would recieve the same Dungeon-key, just 1 level lower.

Just putting it out there.

Question; can you read?

If you complete the dungeon but don’t make the timer, you’ll get a Keystone for a random dungeon that’s 1 level lower than the one you just used.