How high of a minimum wage would you be willing to tolerate?

[Stormspark]

What if the accomplished people are only 'accomplished' because they're stealing from their employees by paying too little?

Every rich person in the top 1% got there by stealing from people under them. Every single one. There is not a single person in the top 1% that got there fairly.

There are millionaires who got there fairly. There is not a single billionaire who did.

[PL-Cibo]

Phew, what a doozy. Quebec's minimum wage is in-line with the Canadian average but still much lower than some of the other provinces such as Alberta, where the Oil & Gas industry continues to give 'Texas North' a massive edge in salary incentives -- up to 40% more.

Since this is an international forum, there are bound to be conflicting opinions on the matter. Not that I'm looking to exploit this in any way, shape, or form.

Are you FOR or AGAINST a minimum wage increase in your area of living?

The real doozy is, not even inflation is being covered by the increase. not in the slightest. when someone works on the equivalent of minimum wage they have the right zu get additional money from the state to over their living expenses.

[Mormolyce]

ye f... basic laws of economy - lets bring in communism and sing kumbaya all day long instead working - for sure this will drive economy forward

Oh you topped it, congrats.

[Adam Jensen]

Against, I'm not on MW but a rise in minimum wages results in a rise in living costs across the board so would hit me too.

The rise in living costs wouldn't be as high as the rise of purchasing power. The rise of the minimum wage would also have a ripple effect for all the higher wages.

You would benefit in the end.

And what's more annoying is how shortsighted business are being. They're seeing a short term hike in labor costs but missing the long term hike in demand.

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0

lazy scums should start working if they want something out of life

minimum wage only promotes laziness and living of social benefits.

The only reason MW promotes living off social benefits is because it's so low that you have to take government assistance just to get by on min wage.

Raise minimum wage and you get people off welfare.

[Macaquerie]

One of the reasons free market principles don't work out so well in practice is that they don't account for people valuing wealth as a sign of status beyond its purchasing power. Obviously increasing the minimum wage will help money circulate more freely in the economy which will benefit everyone, but there are more than enough people who derive pleasure in keeping the poor huddled masses destitute, and would rather see other suffer than trying a mutually beneficial solution.

[caervek]

The rise in living costs wouldn't be as high as the rise of purchasing power. The rise of the minimum wage would also have a ripple effect for all the higher wages.

You would benefit in the end.

That's the theory, the practice is that wages go up, then costs for employers go up, then prices of goods/services have to go up. We've tried it for 18 years, it doesn't really do anything positive except give the naive the placebo that they have become better off.

[Captain N]

One of the reasons free market principles don't work out so well in practice is that they don't account for people valuing wealth as a sign of status beyond its purchasing power. Obviously increasing the minimum wage will help money circulate more freely in the economy which will benefit everyone, but there are more than enough people who derive pleasure in keeping the poor huddled masses destitute, and would rather see other suffer than trying a mutually beneficial solution.

Coincidentally those folks are the ones that are currently at or just above $15 despite doing all the "right things". Unfortunately it's easier for these folks to belittle those just barely underneath them without acknowledging that their stance eventually puts them under water as well.

That's the theory, the practice is that wages go up, then costs for employers go up, then prices of goods/services have to go up. We've tried it for 18 years, it doesn't really do anything positive except give the naive the placebo that they have become better off.

I don't know about you but I think I'm doing much better off at $588/day than I was at $550/day. Yes costs increased on our freight cars by all of sixteen cents per ton. Prices rise regardless of wage increases BUT small controlled increases to prices of goods easily outweigh an increase to labor costs.

[Nehezbegar]

0$

You are paid for the value of work You have done. For instance, there is no minimum wage for programmers yet they earn a lot more than the minimum wage.

[Adam Jensen]

That's the theory, the practice is that wages go up, then costs for employers go up, then prices of goods/services have to go up. We've tried it for 18 years, it doesn't really do anything positive except give the naive the placebo that they have become better off.

The price rise is slower than the purchasing power rise.

[Faroth]

Maybe then it should be a state issue not one for the Federal Government.

That's my general thought. If truly an issue, federal law could just require states to maintain it for inflation and do periodic reviews of it, but the state would be responsible for analysis and determination of amount.

[petej0]

The price rise is slower than the purchasing power rise.

It takes time to flow through the economy and by the time prices stabilize at their new level you have to raise incomes again so people can afford to live again.

[SirBeef]

$15 as a baseline federal with adjustments made in major urban areas by the state. Tie it to inflation so we don't end up running behind yet again.

Not just inflation but productivity. If you account for productivity and inflation minimum wage would be over $19

[prwraith]

Minimum wage is irrelevant. You raise it, everything's great for a while. Then back to where we are now. It's just going to cycle endlessly into inflation extradordinare.

[proralph]

Minimum wage is irrelevant. You raise it, everything's great for a while. Then back to where we are now. It's just going to cycle endlessly into inflation extradordinare.

Agreed and that's how our societies are working.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I feel the problem is less in how much people make and more in how much costs have gotten out of control.

15 years ago my wife and I rented a single bedroom apartment when our first home was being built. It was 475 bucks a month. That same apartment, yes, that same apartment that is now 15 years older now and wasn't a very good one when we rented it 15 years ago is 1500 bucks a month on the sheet. Which means in reality after the fees and stuff it will likely be somewhere around 1600-1700 bucks a month.

Costs have simply increased at an alarming rate while wages have pretty much just waddled along. If they had grown evenly we wouldn't have much of a problem. But they didn't.

[prwraith]

I feel the problem is less in how much people make and more in how much costs have gotten out of control.

15 years ago my wife and I rented a single bedroom apartment when our first home was being built. It was 475 bucks a month. That same apartment, yes, that same apartment that is now 15 years older now and wasn't a very good one when we rented it 15 years ago is 1500 bucks a month on the sheet. Which means in reality after the fees and stuff it will likely be somewhere around 1600-1700 bucks a month.

Costs have simply increased at an alarming rate while wages have pretty much just waddled along. If they had grown evenly we wouldn't have much of a problem. But they didn't.

Kind of what I was getting at.

Apartment of 500 square feet near me is roughly 8-900 dollars a month.

10 Years ago it was about a dollar a square foot at 500 dollars. There's no reason the cost of that building should go up. .

[melodramocracy]

"Because that's how the world works."

What a scary phrase. Let's just keep doing this because fuck it that's what we've always done.

These are the same sort of people who would have lamented the elimination of slavery, the inquisition, various plagues, etc.

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Minimum wage is irrelevant. You raise it, everything's great for a while. Then back to where we are now. It's just going to cycle endlessly into inflation extradordinare.

Maybe if we lower it, everything will get cheaper, including housing.

[sgthotrod]

For. (United States.)

Somewhere around $15 an hour, indexed to the cost of living and inflation, seems like it'd be enough. That's a rate that would vastly improve purchasing power without raising labor costs or cost of goods too high.

There is a limit that's too high. $15 is not that limit.

Are you kidding me? Really? $15 an hour? Graduating college with a degree in computer science and information technology I made $17.15 an hour. So now not only am I paying back student loans and paying more taxes but I would only be making $2.15 more then the 16 year old flipping burgers for the summer. That's asnine.

Minimum wage was never a living wage it was never intended to be. It is a starting place. If you're a sixteen-year-old kid and it's your first job and you're saving up money for your first car it's fine. It teaches you responsibility teaches you to manage your money and gives way to school. Now if you're trying to live off of that and you have 2 kids and no education then somewhere along the line you screw up and we shouldn't have to pay for it.

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[D3thray]

These are the same sort of people who would have lamented the elimination of slavery, the inquisition, various plagues, etc.

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Maybe if we lower it, everything will get cheaper, including housing.

Probably not. There aren't a lot of jobs that pay minimum wage right now. They can't attract workers with such a low wage. Raising it so high will absolutely have a lot more making minimum wage and have knock on effects throughout the economy. It sounds great in an absolute sense but wages and money for that matter are relative. What matters is how much you can buy with that dollar.

Ultimately when the economy settles we'd be right back to where we are right now with the current level of wage stratification as many have stated. It's a bandaid at best, not a solution.

[Adam Jensen]

Are you kidding me? Really? $15 an hour? Graduating college with a degree in computer science and information technology I made $17.15 an hour. So now not only am I paying back student loans and paying more taxes but I would only be making $2.15 more then the 16 year old flipping burgers for the summer. That's asnine.

Minimum wage was never a living wage it was never intended to be. It is a starting place. If you're a sixteen-year-old kid and it's your first job and you're saving up money for your first car it's fine. It teaches you responsibility teaches you to manage your money and gives way to school. Now if you're trying to live off of that and you have 2 kids and no education then somewhere along the line you screw up and we shouldn't have to pay for it.

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So that burger flipper is less of a human than you are? I don't get why people get so jealous about what other people make.

You do realize when the minimum wage goes up, skilled labor wages also go up, so your $17 an hour would go up.

A full time job, 40 hours a week, should ALWAYS be a livable wage.

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Minimum wage is irrelevant. You raise it, everything's great for a while. Then back to where we are now. It's just going to cycle endlessly into inflation extradordinare.

That's why it should be indexed with inflation.

Something like 15*x*y, where x is a coefficient to adjust for inflation and y is a coefficient to adjust for the local cost of living.