ToS - ranged or melee?

[Deleted]

Yeah and most of those abilities stopped hitting Melees since TotC.

Most? It is mostly 1 or 2 mechanics per fight. E.g. Krosus has one mechanic for ranged, but also 1 only affecting melees. Star Augur melees gotta play every mechanic while ranged barely lose.

Right now ranged specs have higher dps potential than melees. If melees are supposed to deal with all mechanics melee dps would need a big buff.

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It's still going to be melee tunneling the boss/cleaving adds while only being affected by half of the mechanics. There's nothing screaming 'omgomgomg, don't bring melee to this boss'.

Melees are prolly still gonna be stronger than ranges in ToS. So you'll most likely again bring as many ranges as necessary to deal with mechanics and fill up the rest with melees. Can't see anything changing about that unless half the range specs magically get a flat 10% damage buff (which still wouldn't be enough for some range specs to compete with mediocre melee specs (hello moonkins)).

So yea, stack up your melee roster, no reason to have your baseline setup be like 5 melees/9 ranges anymore - going forward I expect 7/7, or on very tight dps checks even 8/6 to be the go to setup.

Stronger in what sense? Frost mage and Affli deal way more damage than all melees. And optimizing melee range to targets is a mechanic every melee gotta face. So actually this a mechanic you seem to ignore. Ranged dont have to, so they need other mechanics to keep them challanged.

[Kikazz]

can't recall any encounters in this game like that

i Guess a melee wouldnt.

on topic, i hope Melee get some of the mechanics this round.

YES MELEE DID HAVE MECHANICS IN NIGHTHOLD.

but more than not Range had to deal with them due to melee having 2 far to travel or it being a bigger dps loss.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure if we listed all the fights that favoured range and put them up against fights that favoured melee we'd have a different picture to what every cry-baby range player is currently arguing.

But yeah, let's go back to the days of bringing only Rogues, Hunters counting as melee since they're physical (right? EL O EL) and range players pretending they play hard classes, with shit like double blink, warlock portals, teleports, displacer etc.

It's pretty funny, of the... 8 years ish? I've played this game, 9 times out of 10 it's range that are retards and melee that end up carrying on the mechanic front.

[Deleted]

can't recall any encounters in this game like that

Do you raid? NH has plenty of this type of encounters, hence you ditch ranged in favour of melee. Trillax, Aluriel, Tichondrius, Botanist, Krosus and Guldan just to name a few bosses.

[Sarevokcz]

Do you raid? NH has plenty of this type of encounters, hence you ditch ranged in favour of melee. Trillax, Aluriel, Tichondrius, Botanist, Krosus and Guldan just to name a few bosses.

with the exception of tich and guldan, you bring less ranged because their dmg is on average worse than melee, not because of mechanics...

[Deleted]

with the exception of tich and guldan, you bring less ranged because their dmg is on average worse than melee, not because of mechanics...

On the encounters I listed you either bring melee because of superior damage, superior damage + easier handling of mechanics (Guldan, Tichondrius, etc) or simply because more ranged would hurt the raid (Guldan).

[Sarevokcz]

On the encounters I listed you either bring melee because of superior damage, superior damage + easier handling of mechanics (Guldan, Tichondrius, etc) or simply because more ranged would hurt the raid (Guldan).

wow, its almost like i said the exact same thing.

[Seramore]

Do you raid? NH has plenty of this type of encounters, hence you ditch ranged in favour of melee. Trillax, Aluriel, Tichondrius, Botanist, Krosus and Guldan just to name a few bosses.

no i dont raid

[Gasparde]

Stronger in what sense? Frost mage and Affli deal way more damage than all melees. And optimizing melee range to targets is a mechanic every melee gotta face. So actually this a mechanic you seem to ignore. Ranged dont have to, so they need other mechanics to keep them challanged.

Frost Mage is barely ahead of the top melee specs. Frost tanks hard the second it has to deal with mechanics and is forced to drop uptime on Icy Veins. Frost will likely drop even harder if they decide to get rid of the Ice Lange bug/thing with 7.2.5. Ignoring Frost it's only Affli being the real outlier here. Without these 2 it's pretty much only Demo being able to keep up with melees, and Demo dies to any form of movement.

A good proportion from current 90+ parses prolly comes from people ignoring mechanics and just padding, after 4 months of NH that's certainly realistic. Going into a new raidtier this will be highly unlikely (like early on when we didn't have guilds just tanking the bloods on top of Tichondrius, Balance Druids were far lower on all the statistics, but since we're outgearing most of NH so hard atm, cheese is possible once more).

[netherflame]

As an elemental shaman I support any and all melee nerfs

I support any and all nerfs to melee and other casters.

[Deavane]

Melee have to do a few mechanics in nighthold...

Probably the best video from this tier.

[Reforge]

you got any ideas how to swarm melee with mechanics, that would be actually fun and wouldnt force them out of melee range constantly? the second you force stuff like icy ejections or frost marks constantly on melee players is the second melee are second class raiders yet again.

Yes, bullet hell style mechanics that allow you to still remain in melee range but require you to dance around the boss in erratic fashion with no predetermined order.

[Sylvaeres]

took 1 second to figure out that krosus isn't a target dummy where you do 2 mill dps while afking. try again lad

Ya you're right, you have to move 5 feet once every 25 seconds. Ya you got me there, "lad"

[Kralljin]

Most? It is mostly 1 or 2 mechanics per fight. E.g. Krosus has one mechanic for ranged, but also 1 only affecting melees.

Fel Beam?

Burning Pitch?

Are those mechanics more difficult on Ranged or Melee?

The only "melee only" mechanic is the collapsing bridge, which is a joke compared to the pain in the ass that Orb of Destruction, Fel Beam and Burning pitch is for ranged dps.

[Seramore]

Ya you're right, you have to move 5 feet once every 25 seconds. Ya you got me there, "lad"

glad some people can recognize that they're actually wrong on these forums every once in a while

[Raiju]

Fel Beam?

Burning Pitch?

Are those mechanics more difficult on Ranged or Melee?

The only "melee only" mechanic is the collapsing bridge, which is a joke compared to the pain in the ass that Orb of Destruction, Fel Beam and Burning pitch is for ranged dps.

Burning pitch is an almost neutral mechanic since you need everyone to be soaking - the melee soak closer to the boss because outside of pitches they HAVE to be at the boss to be relevant. The ranged can be 40 and in some cases 50 yards back from the boss with the same effect. Even with this certain melee specs if you raid has a clue will soak mid-back (warriors / Dh's can travel the entire bridge & back after pitch easily)

Face it, what you said is wrong - majority of mechanics in nighthold are neutral, but there are KEY mechanics that are ranged only. You seem to ignore that there have always been mechanics that affected melee more than ranged historically and these are largely muted in NH.

Also the only time fel beam should have any real impact on a ranged dps over melee is during double beams, or last platform (which hey is mostly double beams anyway)

Lastly, orb of destruction targets 1 ranged every... 20-40 seconds? It's such a minor fucking inconvenience it's laughable everytime someone brings it up.

Actually OT: I expect that the trend for the expansion will remain more melee friendly. Legion has been all about non-hardcore audiences and blizzard doesnt give a shit about the ranged superiority status quo. Melee are more popular and that may unfortunately be a factor into why they have such an easy time in NH.

[deadman1]

can't recall any encounters in this game like that

Maybe because you main a warrior ...

[Deleted]

Best melee fight ever created - Will of the Emperor fight.

As a 10man raider who mained warrior in MoP. I agree. Off-tanking Emperor's Strength, dodging smashes while Second Wind healed through the gas damage made me feel pretty good actually.

[Deleted]

Trilliax frustrates me....eat cake, no damage during beam (can't cast while moving) enjoy the bottom of the meter. As Elemental, the raid doesn't have high expectations for me on that fight, I'm just in NH to clear trash....

Actually cakes and beam are nbot a big issue the most big issue is when you get that nice debuff and have to run like maniac around the bots or to blow your A*** up

[Rotted]

I expect nothing more than nh 2.0 where melee sit on target dummy doing 2M dps while afking and ranged have to deal with all shitty mechanics

Ladies and gentlemen, WoW community at it's finest right here