ToS - ranged or melee?

[Myztikrice]

Burning pitch is an almost neutral mechanic since you need everyone to be soaking - the melee soak closer to the boss because outside of pitches they HAVE to be at the boss to be relevant. The ranged can be 40 and in some cases 50 yards back from the boss with the same effect. Even with this certain melee specs if you raid has a clue will soak mid-back (warriors / Dh's can travel the entire bridge & back after pitch easily)

Face it, what you said is wrong - majority of mechanics in nighthold are neutral, but there are KEY mechanics that are ranged only. You seem to ignore that there have always been mechanics that affected melee more than ranged historically and these are largely muted in NH.

Also the only time fel beam should have any real impact on a ranged dps over melee is during double beams, or last platform (which hey is mostly double beams anyway)

Lastly, orb of destruction targets 1 ranged every... 20-40 seconds? It's such a minor fucking inconvenience it's laughable everytime someone brings it up.

Actually OT: I expect that the trend for the expansion will remain more melee friendly. Legion has been all about non-hardcore audiences and blizzard doesnt give a shit about the ranged superiority status quo. Melee are more popular and that may unfortunately be a factor into why they have such an easy time in NH.

Boy I'd love it if melee got disarmed for 5 seconds every 40 seconds and just considered it a 'minor inconvenience'

[Seramore]

Boy I'd love it if melee got disarmed for 5 seconds every 40 seconds and just considered it a 'minor inconvenience'

haha wow it's almost as if that this game has various encounters that target different roles and periodically put them out of a fight for a short period of time isn't it?

[Sarevokcz]

Boy I'd love it if melee got disarmed for 5 seconds every 40 seconds and just considered it a 'minor inconvenience'

you mean like melee being targeted by ejections? or ellisande porting away? that kind of disarm?

[slickwilly]

There's a reason why melee doesn't require int on gear. Herp a der I'm pushing a rock, I'm pushing a rock...........I'm still pushing the rock.

[Kralljin]

Face it, what you said is wrong - majority of mechanics in nighthold are neutral, but there are KEY mechanics that are ranged only.

As long as a Melee can stick on the Boss while handling the mechanic, the mechanic favors Melee.

And frankly, the amount of mechanics that force a Melee for a longer period away from the boss aren't that common in Nighthold.

You seem to ignore that there have always been mechanics that affected melee more than ranged historically and these are largely muted in NH.

And you seem to ignore that abilities that simply do not target Melees were not that uncommon since Wotlk.

The difference in Nighthold is simply that crucial encounter mechanics are mainly put on the shoulders of ranged players and the lack of mechanics that favor ranged players.

It's nothing new that melees were ignored on certain mechanics, but on the other end, certain mechanics became more difficult with too many melees which counteracted the first point.

Yes Ranged were favored previously, this is true, but you had to play the mechanics, while melee were ignored on certain mechanics, now ranged are not favored and still have to play the mechanics.

Also the only time fel beam should have any real impact on a ranged dps over melee is during double beams, or last platform (which hey is mostly double beams anyway)

It's a hassle for certain classes to play around Fel Beam and still staying dps neutral, especially if you take movement for burning pitch into account.

Whereas Melees just don't have to worry, they can just move while the beam is casting without losing any dps.

You see, while Ranged have to plan forward and adapt accordingly to the mechanic, melees press move left or right once the warning comes up.

I'm not claming it's rocket science, but the mechanic is most certainly easier on the melee side.

[stolker]

I laugh every time players complain about having to do mechanics and DPS at the same time. unless youre braindead you can run 100% dps rotation and do mechanics at the same time in 9 of the 10 nh mythic encounters, and the one exception you can probably run 95%+. literally git gud.

[Raiju]

And you seem to ignore that abilities that simply do not target Melees were not that uncommon since Wotlk.

The difference in Nighthold is simply that crucial encounter mechanics are mainly put on the shoulders of ranged players and the lack of mechanics that favor ranged players.

It's nothing new that melees were ignored on certain mechanics, but on the other end, certain mechanics became more difficult with too many melees which counteracted the first point.

Yes Ranged were favored previously, this is true, but you had to play the mechanics, while melee were ignored on certain mechanics, now ranged are not favored and still have to play the mechanics.

So you're still not admitting that many mechanics both currently in the past that 'affect both' are more dangerous for melee, yet write a fucking paragraph about FEL BEAM?

[shaunika123]

Boy I'd love it if melee got disarmed for 5 seconds every 40 seconds and just considered it a 'minor inconvenience'

you mean like how we have to run back and not hit krosus while hes crushing the bridge while the ranged can keep shooting him?

[Gaidax]

you mean like how we have to run back and not hit krosus while hes crushing the bridge while the ranged can keep shooting him?

Krosus? You mean that guy where melee can tunnel 24/7, while ranged have to fuck off to Africa to soak, kill shit the back and carry Orb of Destruction?

kk, hope that is not too difficult for you.

[Aktec]

you mean like how we have to run back and not hit krosus while hes crushing the bridge while the ranged can keep shooting him?

Why do melee keep pointing to this? ofc range have to move aswell and its not like we can cast while moving. Imagine if you could only do white dmg when moving for the beams.

[shaunika123]

Krosus? You mean that guy where melee can tunnel 24/7, while ranged have to fuck off to Africa to soak, kill shit the back and carry Orb of Destruction?

kk, hope that is not too difficult for you.

if the melees dont soak/kill adds in your grp than that means hes been on farm for weeks, which doesnt count.
hell even though hes been on farm for us since 2nd week of night hold, melee still has to soak every time. so yeah

and anyway, it was just a reply for the ridiculous "disarm for 5 sec post"

[Sarevokcz]

Why do melee keep pointing to this? ofc range have to move aswell and its not like we can cast while moving. Imagine if you could only do white dmg when moving for the beams.

ranged can plan their movement in advance, have instants they can throw while dodging beam or avoiding bridge (not really an issue for the first two bridge collapses anyway), which takes ONE gcd if you arent retarded and your positioning sucks and melee have to soak puddles out of melee range too if you have balanced or melee heavy team. the only reason why Krosus is mentioned as melee friendly is because dual wielders DONT HAVE misschance on autoattacks and thus are doing more damage than in normal situation, I can guarantee you if that was gone, DHs, furys and rogues wouldnt be nearly as dominant melee on the fight

[Deja Thoris]

Took like 1 post for this to degenerate into a useless circle jerk based on what spec the poster plays.

Honorary mention to the "we had it bad last expac so to make life fair its right and proper that you suffer this expansion" line of "logic"

[Raiju]

Took like 1 post for this to degenerate into a useless circle jerk based on what spec the poster plays.

Honorary mention to the "we had it bad last expac so to make life fair its right and proper that you suffer this expansion" line of "logic"

It's the logical conclusion when common sense is applied and you realise it's never going to be 'equal'. One's going to be better, and there's plenty of fights in NH where it's more convenient to be ranged heavy still.

[Deleted]

I have a feeling (feelcraft, since it is no point trying to theory on PTR builds that may/will change before release of 7.2.5) that strong ST specs will dominate ToS, just as NH. The last bosses seems to be almost only ST.

Fights like Fallen Avatar will force melee out of boss range a lot, which indirectly favors ranged.
Second boss which is 2 target council style will obviously again favor ranged within that niche (see destruction warlocks).

In the end, I feel that Legion has been pretty balanced so far. Sure some specs took off on DPS charts and some are performing a bit low (enhance shaman comes to mind), but for 99% of people who are posting or reading here it doesn't really matter that much which classes you bring to a raid. Bring the player not the class. As long as you have a fair balance of ranged and melee and some rogues (mythic guldan is pretty much a no-go without two rogues soaking) you are fine.

Still think melees will be equally strong as in NH. What will be fotm totally depends on how they do the final tuning, could be either X melee spec or Y ranged spec, with no connection to respective camp.

[Deleted]

I have a feeling (feelcraft, since it is no point trying to theory on PTR builds that may/will change before release of 7.2.5) that strong ST specs will dominate ToS, just as NH. The last bosses seems to be almost only ST.

Fights like Fallen Avatar will force melee out of boss range a lot, which indirectly favors ranged.
Second boss which is 2 target council style will obviously again favor ranged within that niche (see destruction warlocks).

In the end, I feel that Legion has been pretty balanced so far. Sure some specs took off on DPS charts and some are performing a bit low (enhance shaman comes to mind), but for 99% of people who are posting or reading here it doesn't really matter that much which classes you bring to a raid. Bring the player not the class. As long as you have a fair balance of ranged and melee and some rogues (mythic guldan is pretty much a no-go without two rogues soaking) you are fine.

Still think melees will be equally strong as in NH. What will be fotm totally depends on how they do the final tuning, could be either X melee spec or Y ranged spec, with no connection to respective camp.

if melee needs to move out of melee quite abit the more mobile melee will also be favored , monk, dh etc

[irebil]

Still need a fairly even split to of ranged/melee to do mechanics in Mythic. Even then, there are so many more melee specs in the game its easier to find a raid team as an rdps, at least in my experience.

Statistics here dont be alarmed: 6 tanks spec, 6 healer specs, 11 ranged specs and 13 melee specs. So about even. Now here comes the bad part, 8 of the 11 specializations for ranged are in 3 classes Warlock, Mage and Hunter. That's the problem since most of these only want to play the specialization with the highest DPS

[Deleted]

I hope it will be melee friendly cus everyone is melee this expansion, lack of ranged are to high..

[slime]

holy shit the vending machine is out of popcorn!
And this is my favorite kind of degenerate thread

[Deleted]

At least Legion brought an interesting case: playing ranged has never been this appreciated It's so much easier to find a raiding guild playing ranged than melee. A friend of mine rerolled from warlock to DH, and every time he looks for a raiding guild it's like "nope we already have 47855564 melee including 785455 DHs". While he would have been insta invited as a warlock.

I don't know if ToS will favor ranged or melee, but I know for sure it will be way easier for ranged to find raiding groups/pugs.