If EQ is still going, what makes anyone think WoW would EVER end?

[sarym13]

I still acctively play EQ1. But only the TLPs.

For those not aware, the Everquest devs often release a TLP version of the game, TLP being basically a Classic version of the game. They're actually starting a new one on the 24th so check it out if you're an old EQ player! (Sorry for the advertisement!)

But anyways I can say without a doubt, the TLP servers are the sole reason EQ1 is still around. Live servers have a very poor population, but the TLPs (currently there are 5 of them) bring a ton of players back. Especially in the early times. The most recent TLP is currently at LDoN, so its population is not as big as it was when it launched, but on the 24th you can expect the new servers TLP pop to be there.

If WoW ever reaches a point where they see drastically lower numbers, one of the best things Blizzard can do is make a Vanilla server.

[Cheze]

this is the company that's still providing support for diablo 2; blizzard have a history of supporting properties longer than other companies might, because they're IPs that they own outright and care about.

they'll keep supporting WoW as long as people are playing it and they can sell subs and expansion boxes; development might slow down (how would we tell huehuehue) but it'll be a long time before WoW's at the level where it isn't profitable to operate.

[plaits]

I still acctively play EQ1. But only the TLPs.

For those not aware, the Everquest devs often release a TLP version of the game, TLP being basically a Classic version of the game. They're actually starting a new one on the 24th so check it out if you're an old EQ player! (Sorry for the advertisement!)

But anyways I can say without a doubt, the TLP servers are the sole reason EQ1 is still around. Live servers have a very poor population, but the TLPs (currently there are 5 of them) bring a ton of players back. Especially in the early times. The most recent TLP is currently at LDoN, so its population is not as big as it was when it launched, but on the 24th you can expect the new servers TLP pop to be there.

If WoW ever reaches a point where they see drastically lower numbers, one of the best things Blizzard can do is make a Vanilla server.

I think that system is really good, actually. I can see Blizz doing something like that in future. I don't think they'd make it 'vanilla' wow, but I do think in that future where full development stops, they could do something similar where it starts afresh but its at least at Cataclysm. I don't think they'd go back to classic vanilla.

[clevin]

this is the company that's still providing support for diablo 2; blizzard have a history of supporting properties longer than other companies might, because they're IPs that they own outright and care about.

they'll keep supporting WoW as long as people are playing it and they can sell subs and expansion boxes; development might slow down (how would we tell huehuehue) but it'll be a long time before WoW's at the level where it isn't profitable to operate.

Right but the difference is that they aren't selling new expansions for D2. I can see them operating WoW servers for a LONG time, esp if they do retro servers (I kind of like the idea of saying "We're making LK servers live again for the next year") etc. But at some point active development just doesn't pay.

[Kagthul]

Because the current team is likely too large to be supported by the figures I gave with enough profit margin left. There's no point in running WoW and making, say, $1m/month profit when they could likely do far better applying those people on something else.

And yes, in 2004 500k would have rocked. This is 2017.

Even if the team is ~300 people, and they ALL make the industry average (roughly 100k, which is drug up as high as it is because a lot of them live in California and its expensive as shit to live there) - which they dont, junior members assuredly make less - but lets assume they do...

its about 30 million a year in salary, another ~5-ish million in benefits. (Because a lot of Blizzard's benefits are actually provided on-campus (which is one of the perqs to working there), so they are paid regardless of what game you're working on).

Still plenty of profit left on the bone even at a paltry 80 million a year intake.

[Deleted]

can't wait for the infographic on that one:

Celebrating WoW's 50th anniversary, here's what it's seen in its lifetime so far:

- 2 billion accounts created
- 1 World War
- 7 US Presidents (one impeached)
- 2 attempts at VR integration
- Several ownerships (Vivendi, Activision, Self-ownership, Disney)
- 22 expansions
- 1 financial institution
- First MMO to be remotely available on both Lunar and Martian settlements (First interstellar MMO!)

Nothing on the internet survives a world war, nothing. Trump won't get impeached. VR will be abandoned in favor of holodecks at around 2046. Neither Luna nor Mars are in interstellar space, they're only interplanetary.

[bufferunderrun]

Ever Quest has been out for 18 years and is still going strong. Their latest expansion is the 23rd in the series, and was released November 16, 2016.

Even if this game has a very niche playerbase, they continue to make content and release expansions for it.

Given this, what makes ANYONE think that WoW would EVER end?

WoW will continue to be expanded on for years and years to come. There is so much lore and so many things they can do to create new and refreshing content that im just surprised that anyone could actually believe that the game is dying or would end in the forseeable future.

how many wow player are willing to play a game who has a shrinking player bases? EQ1 still running but is something just for the aficionado when wow enter that phase did you really think blizzard keep the level of support at the current level?

[rda]

Even if the team is ~300 people, and they ALL make the industry average (roughly 100k, which is drug up as high as it is because a lot of them live in California and its expensive as shit to live there) - which they dont, junior members assuredly make less - but lets assume they do...

its about 30 million a year in salary, another ~5-ish million in benefits. (Because a lot of Blizzard's benefits are actually provided on-campus (which is one of the perqs to working there), so they are paid regardless of what game you're working on).

Still plenty of profit left on the bone even at a paltry 80 million a year intake.

The number of people working / related / paid from WoW is much bigger than 300. Try 2300 or even 3000. Most of those aren't devs, sure. Most get less than 100k per year. But the numbers are still different.

Very fast and very napkin math: let's take 2500 people with 50k average - that's 125 million. Add other costs of doing business (space, servers, taxes, etc) and the figure doubles. Marketing can add another 100 million per year easily (that's actually *very* conservative), that depends on the year.

We are quickly climbing to the break-even point of maybe 250-300 million per year. In a year without box sales that means maintaining something like 1.5 million subs. Yes, WoW is definitely above that level still. But, first, we are talking about breaking even with no profit. Even a half-year of that is already quite a disaster. Opportunity costs are harsh, you'd be closing the project or perhaps relaunching it in some new form way before you are at that point. And, second, WoW is coming down so fast, it might not take long for it to hit that break even point. How many subs do we have now? 4 mil? Let's say 7.3 is going to be as unappealing as 7.2 was, how many are we going to have then? 3 mil? Maybe even less? Then the break even point is just an expansion away. And sane people would already start rolling things down, because nobody wants to come even close to it, there are much better things to put money into.

[Allerius]

WoW will be around for a very long time I think. Blizz probably already sees that the end of its glory days is coming and is developing tools for easy long-term maintenance. Timewalking and scaling are prime examples of that. Long term they will probably scale and timewalk all content and then either make it all the current content or rotate it by xpac (e.g. scaled TBC one year then scaled WotLK the next). Minimal new content will be developed while PVP ladder resets and gear resets will give people stuff to do. This way they can keep the servers on and maintain a reasonable quality game while dialing back development costs as to be appropriate for a game with a few 10k players.

[Deleted]

"WoW is dying" thread from Burning Crusade:
https://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-m...-wow-25902237/

People have been claiming that WoW is "dying" since it was launched, if it really was it should have died a looong time ago.

[Zenny]

WoW should be around for the next 20-30 years at least, barring anything drastic.

- - - Updated - - -

["WoW is dying" thread from Burning Crusade:
https://www.gamespot.com/forums/pc-m...-wow-25902237/

People have been claiming that WoW is "dying" since it was launched, if it really was it should have died a looong time ago.

Haha, wow, from that thread dated almost 10 years ago:

World of Warcraft was already dead. It was already at rock bottom because Blizzard designed the end-game so horribly. So technically, it can only get better from here at this point...

Hate Blizzard, so damn much.

[Deleted]

IMO, make a WoW 2 using a new engine, so its prettier and shinier. Have everything exactly the same as is in WoW currently, and you just port your toon over. It might help clean things up, since it wont be a game that's gone through 6 expansions and innumerable patches, so the code will be much more fresh. Basically think the FF7 remake people are wanting. Same game, new graphics, nothing lost aside from nostalgia.

Keep WoW up for a while for those that can't or won't swap, while everyone willing can continue the story in the new game.

This is the direct opposite of what me and my buddies want.
New Graphics? FUCK NO.

[Heeresman]

Everquest might still be going, but it's still dead.

How can this be?

Something that is dead yet still going......

[Heathy]

How can this be?

Something that is dead yet still going......

ppl still play it but the days of it getting major content updates are practically over afaik, they haven't had a level cap increasing expansion for a while its from what i can tell, horizontal progression.

i got to 75 in eq almost entirely solo as a cleric it was painful, these days if i'm going to spend that much time grinding, i'd rather play an mmo with decent combat, like say, bdo.

[kamuimac]

Well, it's not dead, it's undead.

Wow is dying, that's a fact, but it'll still push out 5-6 more expansions and still make heaps of money. the 12 million subs thing is long, long gone and will never come close to that again - but it'll still push forward. Like it, play it. You don't, there are hundreds of other things you can do.

hm i wouldnt be betting 5-6 expansions - more like 5-6 years - they bought themselves good 2-3 years with wow token but now that prices in west are going crazy high and people are runing out of time they bought it will be less and less people playing constantly and more and more people subbing on and off - its visible well in legion that blizzard is releasing more content then ever before and susb stabilised around 3 mln - my guess they will keep loosing around 1 mln per expansions closing more and more to f2p model without cheap tokens.

[ItachiZaku]

hm i wouldnt be betting 5-6 expansions - more like 5-6 years - they bought themselves good 2-3 years with wow token but now that prices in west are going crazy high and people are runing out of time they bought it will be less and less people playing constantly and more and more people subbing on and off - its visible well in legion that blizzard is releasing more content then ever before and susb stabilised around 3 mln - my guess they will keep loosing around 1 mln per expansions closing more and more to f2p model without cheap tokens.

Even at 110K, the tokens are still cheap enough for my casual ass... but you might be right.

[Swalload]

You mean by the same people or played at all? I submit chess, football, golf, tic-tac-toe!

I meant video games, and I meant by the same people.

[Deleted]

Even at 110K, the tokens are still cheap enough for my casual ass... but you might be right.

That may be correct in US, but in EU the current rate is 204K, and that takes a little more farming...

[Thelxi]

Because EQ is not a commercial giant that generates enough revenue to support a large corporation. WoW will end the day its profits drop below where Blizzard wants them to be. I don't think they will let it rot and wither either, they will want to move as many of their customers as possible to another game.

At least this is my hope. The game could also keep devolving with increased cash shop presence, extreme RNG and timesinks etc. I hope the game won't be milked like that for too long.

[ItachiZaku]

That may be correct in US, but in EU the current rate is 204K, and that takes a little more farming...

I was on the edge when it was upper 90s. 110 is still good enough (when i bought my last token, i used it to check my overall gold on my 2 servers and was in far better shape than i thought). 204K, nope. I'd be back over in SWTOR.