London Bridge incident: a van hits pedestrians, says BBC

[ravenmoon]

When are they going to shut down extreme teaching mosques, thats the problem.

lol.. don't be naiive, how can they...? if you tolerate islam, you tolerate the teachings of the Quran and Muhammed's writings.. all of them (not just the bits you agree with), and the truth is some of those teachings do tell you to go out and do those things.. you can't tell an avid muslim that hey lets only talk about these bits but not that bit.

They themselves are seeing a society degenerating, corruption, greed, exploitation, inequality all around them, and their islamic culture which they are told to embrace has a solution to these issues, the problem is, it's a violent solution - it's not like christianity who's solution is spread the news of the gospel of Jesus Christ showing God's love of a Christ that took beatings , crucificxtion and death ..i.e he himself suffered out of love so you don't have to - its solution is go and reign the infidels in by force if necessary. cut their limbs off, behead them if they won't comply, but bring all nations to obedience to allah. Make them suffer! rather than Christian gospel which says Christ suffered so you don't have to. You can't assume all religions are the same, Buddhism doesn't teach that crap either.

You can't accept Islam in your country and then go and tell them oh you can't talk about those "extreme" parts of islam only the peaceful parts. They are extreme to you and your western sensibilities, they are part and parcel of slamic religion for all who practice and bother to read the Quran.

The message, my message to Muslims who abhor this terrible nonsense is to leave the teachings of Islam, they're obviously not good, when is mass murder good in any case? Leave it!. If you don't agree with bringing the infidels by force or wiping them out, then you don't agree with the teachings of Islam and Muhammed, so why are you following them? Why are you trying to tell the none muslims most of whom are lazy over this stuff and won't fact check that this is not your religion when it is? Why are you still following it if this is not what you believe in?

Most muslims are actually normal people like you and me and don't want to see people killed and maimed, most of them don't know what most of their religion is about (exactly the same for christianity and most big religions) They just want to live, trade, and get on with life, so ofc when they see this thing happening in the name of their faith some are confused and upset - and may even claim "this is not islam" or want to believe it, but it is Islam. and this is why the recruiters and radical preachers are having such a field day. ANd no one in our government or publicly is calling tem to account? Its incredulous.
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THe young men are shown what islam is like, and are been told this is the only way you're going to end the corruption and greed and exploitation and inequality the sins of the west, the homosexulaity, the drinking and the freedom - you have to take them out as Muhammed t he prophet shows and tells you to here and here . And they show them the bits in the Quran and the teachings of Muhammed.

So obviously many of these guys, mistreated, often not mixing with the westerners they live with, resort to these kind of actions. Blaming the west for the middle east problems because they listen to the lies.. lies by the palestinians terrorists, liess by the arab islamic haters of all the evils that we are committing in their country, and they blame US and our way of life for it all. It's not that simple ofc, but we are made the enemy.

DIs-enfranchised by their life here in teh west, lack of jobs, inequality they experience, frustations of not being able to change anything, not been given a chance, this is what they resort too. becuase it's their religion their culture, and these teachings are what theyri poeple must obey.

You've been told all your life to be a good muslim and obey the QUran and teachings of Muhammed, then a preacher comes sand shows you what teh Quran says but in addition cahllnges you to actually go and do it.


D'uh.. it's the ideolgoy people.. freaking wake up

yet they ban you in forums for talking about islam.

[Deleted]

Is it? If anything I'd be suspicious. Some of this might be organized on a much larger scale than people suspect. All of a sudden since the Brexit vote UK is suffering from terrorist attacks but only in the places that voted 'Remain'. Very suspicious and I'd look into that. I'm going to wager a guess that even ISIS understand a hard brexit would be good for them.

Because what would be the point to make a terrorist attack on a small town? It has nothing to do with Brexit.

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Undeniable, but eventually we evolved enough to realise it was all retarded. Give Islam another 500 or so years and they might come to the same discovery. Either that or they'll have infested the entire planet and dragged us back to the dark ages.

There are still people killing in name of Christ in Africa, for example. Hell, the IRA terrorism wasn't that long ago.

[Deleted]

If you think 30 % of the populace supporting terrorism is not an incredibly high number, then you are beyond help.

From the wikipedia article:
(30 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in Britain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.

(Adds up to 24%, 6% give no reason?)

It does not mean these people are all in FULL support of these acts, it also does not explain on what these people believe to be acceptable acts of terrorism for whatever reason.

In addition, any laws/rules implemented to curb the rights of a specific group of people will only lead to an increase in support for acts of terror against the people and/or state.

[Jeezy911]

... except for the 1600 years of Christianity-related violence, war and terrorism, sure. Fuck, I'm catholic and I have no problem to admit all the crap was done in the name of Christ.

Worst argument ever, name the last Christian attack. Christianity has modernized.

[Deleted]

Because what would be the point to make a terrorist attack on a small town? It has nothing to do with Brexit.

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There are still people killing in name of Christ in Africa, for example. Hell, the IRA terrorism wasn't that long ago.

Last time I looked at a map Africa wasn't part of the developed nations of the world. IRA terrorism wasn't about religion.

[Raunchy]

Ok so we know the attackers we know the motivation whats the solution, screw biases and what not how do yiu fix this shit

[Deleted]

Worst argument ever, name the last Christian attack. Christianity has modernized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colora...thood_shooting

[ravenmoon]

... except for the 1600 years of Christianity-related violence, war and terrorism, sure. Fuck, I'm catholic and I have no problem to admit all the crap was done in the name of Christ.

we're talking about twaht the religion itself profresses, any one can call themself a christian and go murder people and history shows us that has happened and still happesn. the differnece is Christ doesn't teach that behaviour. But Islam and Muhammed do. So christians who do that stuff aren''t being obedient.. whiles muslims who do are.

why do you think protestanism rose? Because when the bible was forbidden to be translated, and Luther went ahead and did so anyway, he exposed that a lot of things being encouraged and carried out by the catholic church at the time were not according to the teachings of Christ. THey'd basicaly been doing what they wanted and calling it the Will of God. Where do you think this vigorous cross checking of facts taht got instilled in education that was started by christians in western society come from?

[Deleted]

Of course it does. Ever heard about Barbara Lerner Spectre? She's a great Japanese scholar that proves point by point why the European peoples need to embrace diversity in order to continue as a civilization. You should Google her up.

Japanese woman telling the EU to open up their borders for the benefits it brings? That's rich - Japan has very strict migration rules and for better or worse their culture is mostly still their own.

[Deleted]

IRA terrorism wasn't about religion.

Not mainly, sure, but the Catholic vs. Protestant was one of the reasons behind the conflict.

[ravenmoon]

Has this actually been confirmed? Have they identified the suspects and released their own words that say this is why the attack was carried out?

yes, it has been confirmed. "I do this for my family and for Islam" "Allah akhbar" are quotes from the attackers by eye and ear witnesses.

I live in London by the way.. Central london


and people are being silly if they ignore the problem that is in Islam and want to brush it aside as not relevant to what's happening.

[Miyagie]

When are they going to shut down extreme teaching mosques, thats the problem.

So they go underground after shut down and we will never know what hit us... great idea.
Monitor all extrem mosques and deport all members + family to a muslim country.

[Deleted]

So they go underground after shut down and we will never know what hit us... great idea.
Monitor all extrem mosques and deport all members + family to a muslim country.

Many of the extremists are british citizens, 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants, we cannot deport them, we have to take steps to stop radicalization of young muslims in this country.

[Deleted]

we're talking about twaht the religion itself profresses, any one can call themself a christian and go murder people and history shows us that has happened and still happesn. the differnece is Christ doesn't teach that behaviour. But Islam and Muhammed do. So christians who do that stuff aren''t being obedient.. whiles muslims who do are.

So, you are saying that 1.6 billions of living muslims are all wrong and that they are all obedient murderers, that's it?

[Jeezy911]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-balaka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colora...thood_shooting

Ok so that's what 2-2000? if you can't see the difference I can't help you.

[ravenmoon]

Are you legit crazy? Do you truly believe this? Though in fairness, sure, you can love someone so much you'll kill them...

you ever been to sunday shcoll or church? You ever read what JEsus and his Apostles teach? it is literally love others as yourself, esteem others higher than yourself, help others. don't judge others, love, faith and hope. Just because a woman that goes to church constantly and gossips are lot and is always juding everyone, does not meant hat is what christianity stands for or Christ teaches.

FInd out what the religion and the person they folow actually say. the reson these preachers are getting to so many of our age group is because what htey say is in the QUran and in the teachings of Muuhammed, you can't ban it in teh mosque. What you can try to ban is if they incite them to go and blow someone up directly... but when your scripts say destroy the infidels, kill them, wage war on them.." how can you seaprate?


Sadly a lot of people have no clue what a lot of Islam says. This is why ofc they think all religions are the same. I can assure you many religions are vastly different.

[Deleted]

Many of the extremists are british citizens, 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants, we cannot deport them, we have to take steps to stop radicalization of young muslims in this country.

I hear Antarctica has a lot of free space for real estate development.

[Deleted]

I've read the bible. It's been a while but I remember a jealous and vengeful god. I don't have Arabic so haven't read the Koran.

You can read a translation, you don't speak aramean yet you say you have read the Bible. I will concede that the Old Testament is violent, and also encourages violence and other forms of abuse in several instances, but if you actually bother reading the Quran instead of giving your uneducated opinion about it, you will realize they are not in the same category. the New Testament is largely condemning violence, of course there are contradictions as with any text so old written by different people (the Quran seems to have a single author though, Muhammad, the Hadiths written later are clearly separated from it) and it is violent in several cases as I said.

I am an atheist and I don't really like religions in general, just as I dislike people following blindly other people or trends without using any form of critical thinking, and if I'm telling you that the Quran encourages violence toward non believers, it's because it's a fact, not because I dislike muslims or shit like that. If you are feeling lazy just open both texts in the most respected english versions, do ctrl f and type disbelievers or kill and read only those parts.

I really don't understand people like you who feel they have a moral obligation to defend religions and cultures no matter what. It's fine if you defend people, like muslims in this case, but if you want to defend the text I'm sorry but you'll have to read it. I agree that generalizations on muslims are disgusting and racist, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take a look at their holy book. Texts are not sacred, and are not immune to criticism, especially when so many people follow their precepts.


Similarly, not all cultures are equal no matter how "racist" it may sound, for exemple in places where female genital mutilation is the normal thing to do (I know it has nothing to do with religions in this case) the moral (and normal) thing to do would be to try and shift this mindset, make the cuture evolve, without replacing it if possible. Not to write an essay abount how every culture is perfectly equal no matter what...

Conclusion : Just. Read. the. damn. book.

[Jeezy911]

So, you are saying that 1.6 billions of living muslims are all wrong

Well that's an easy answer. Yes they are wrong about the origins of life.

[Deleted]

So they go underground after shut down and we will never know what hit us... great idea.
Monitor all extrem mosques and deport all members + family to a muslim country.

If they go underground, they become illegal criminal organizations and should be dealt as such. Public places of hatred, where young disfranchised kids can easily go and became radicalized, should be permanently closed.