London Bridge incident: a van hits pedestrians, says BBC

[Deleted]

If we have a large number of people that take the word of said historical figure as gospel and idolize him, damn sure we should judge that historical figure according to today's standards in order to reassess what we idolize and believe.

Oo Everything but would just be idiotic.

The hadith itself about the age Aisha is not a proof, since historical events happend that time is contradicting to that hadith, she is believed to be more older.

By the way Prophet Mohammed only do what God want him to do.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Aisha's age at consummation is the weirdest controversy. Things have a historical context.
I mean, you wouldn't criticize other historical figures for current moral standings, right?.

Of course you can. How would moral values develop and improve without criticising past practises?

And, the sad thing is that child marriage is still a massive problem across the world.

http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/about-child-marriage/

It is prevalent in multiple countries, cultures & religions.

[Deleted]

Dont you want to understand? It's not about a single slur, its about the whole climate in the country.

Yeah its a very welcoming climate - Left wing delusions to the contrary are just that, Delusions.

If I were a 17 year old british citizen, 2nd or 3rd generation, and i'd see all this comments about muslims, and how they don't belong into the country. Maybe at the same time i cannot find a job and my gf leaves me. I can see why people like this maybe prone to become victims for recruiters who tell them that everything he feels is totatlly right, and everything is unfair, but hey, there are people like you, and we want to help you, you can be part of our community...

Lets be clear here, there are - Some - Muslim practices, that are prevalent, that do not belong here.
They are to change, Not us -
If this creates terrorism, the solution becomes to not have Muslims - And i don't care if they are 11th generation ones.

That's how terrorists are made. And it's seldom the people who had deep religious teachings. Mostly they are people wo began to radicalize in a very short time, maybe they aren't even following all the rules (the german terrorist was browsing gay porn 3 weeks before he killed all the people) and then they get sent out. Most of them don't even know that much about their religion, sadly.

Yeah that presumably had nothing to do with him being told homosexuality is a sin and that he should be ashamed of himself, and the only way for such a degenerate to go to paradise is to be a martyr.

- - - Updated - - -

What are you on about? Stop lying and misrepresenting my posts! You have advocated internment, deportation and state backed murder of Muslims in this very thread. So what makes your hateful message different from the hateful message of the extremists?

Of ISLAMISTS
Islamist is not the same as Muslim.

encourage those nasty Islamists to integrate with British culture.

Assimilated, Deported, Detained, or Dead.
I don't care which.

[Deleted]

It IS connected to Islam. Difficult (but not impossible, see Japanese kamikaze) to convince people to blow themselves up w/o a religious "eternal reward".
Muslims kill other Muslims all the time, most of it because they think they are not "Muslim enough" and hence fall into the category of "nonbelievers". Extremists tend to think in black/white scenarios, everyone who doesn't support them = enemy.

That being said: I am not convinced that Islam is the only reason for these attacks.

Selfkill in Islam is totally forbidden and there is not any verse in the Quran, Hadith or any historical book in Islam to kill innocent people not in war with you to get to paradise and meet 70 virgins. No intelligent muslim will believe in that story but sadly some youth people with lack of identity believe these fake imams. Why didn't this fake Imam go to the war himself? or send his kids because himself don't believe in that story.

[Zecora]

Assimilated, Deported, Detained, or Dead.
I don't care which.

Which makes you as bad as them. Congratulation on finding your level.

[Deleted]

Which makes you as bad as them. Congratulation on finding your level.

No their goal is to kill innocents.
I'm just indifferent to the death's of criminals.
There is a very long distance to travel still.

[GennGreymane]

Maybe cuts to the police is a horrible idea?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...tremist-views/

London terrorist had twice been referred to police over his extremist views

One of the three jihadists who murdered revellers in central London on Saturday had been reported to the anti-terror police on at least two occasions, it has been claimed.

A former friend of the terrorist, who was shot dead by police along with two accomplices, claimed he had been radicalised while watching YouTube videos and said he contacted the authorities *after becoming concerned over his friend’s extremist views.

A neighbour also claimed she had contacted police in Barking, east London, after the suspect tried to convert her children to Islam and radicalise them. The man is not being named at the request of the police.

The former friend claimed he contacted police after comments the man made about other previous attacks. But he said the authorities had failed to act and take action despite evidence of increasingly extremist views.

The friend told the BBC’s Asian Network that the terrorist had been radicalised watching videos of the infamous American hate preacher Ahmad Musa Jibril.

He said: “We spoke about a particular attack that happened and like most radicals he had a justification for anything and everything and that day I 
realised I needed to contact the authorities.”

He added: “He used to listen to a lot of Musa Jibril. I have heard some of this stuff and its very radical. I am surprised this stuff is still on YouTube and is easily accessible. I phoned the anti-terror hotline. I spoke to the gentleman. I told him about our conversation and why I think he was radicalised.”

However, he said he was not arrested and was allowed to keep his passport. “I did my bit, I know a lot of other people did their bit, but the authorities did not do their bit,” the friend said.

Erica Gasparri, an Italian mother of three who lived close to him, claimed she had reported him to Barking police two years ago, after he began “brainwashing” her children at a local park. She said she had confronted him after her two children came home and said: “Mummy I want to become a Muslim.”

She said the police had told her the information had been passed to Scotland Yard but she had heard nothing more.

Ms Gasparri said: “He was trying to radicalise the children, he would go down to the park and talk to them about Islam. He also came to the houses and gave the kids money and sweets during Ramadan.”

Anti-terror police raided the block of flats on King’s Road in Barking, where the man was believed to live with his wife and two children. The couple were said to have had an arranged marriage.

The attacker's parents were reported to be asylum seekers from Pakistan. His father is said to also live in east London, but his mother is dead.

The attacker had worked at a branch of the fast food chain KFC before leaving two years ago for a job on the London Underground, according to reports.

Many of the locals described him as “polite and normal” and said they were shocked that he could be a terrorist.

Residents said he was a keen football fan who also enjoyed body-building at a local gym. But it also emerged that he was thrown out of his local mosque two years ago after clashing with the Imam about politics.

The jihadist was wearing his Arsenal away shirt when he and two others went on the rampage at London Bridge, leaving seven dead and almost 50 injured. All three were shot dead by armed police in Borough Market, eight minutes after launching the attack.

Early on Sunday morning, armed *police stormed the ground-floor flat where he lived, arresting members of his family. Similar raids were carried out at other addresses across east London including in East Ham and Leyton.

Building worker Seva Litvjakovs, 35, who lives in the same block of flats, said he had been woken by the sound of the police raid. He said: “I read news reports and *began putting together what had happened. I realised that one of the attackers looked exactly like one of my neighbours.

“I looked on Twitter and saw one of the terrorists who had been shot by police and he looked 90 per cent like my neighbour. He was even wearing the same Arsenal shirt that I had seen him in at 5pm that evening.”

The outrage began shortly *after 10pm when the gang began ploughing into pedestrians in London Bridge in a white van. Ken Chigbo, 26, a market analyst, who was another neighbour, claimed the terror suspect had recently asked him how to go about hiring a vehicle.

He said: “I was in the process of loading up a van I had rented as we are moving house and he came over for a chat.

“He was lovely, really enthusiastic about my move and was really nice saying he wished me all the best. He said to me, ‘Oh, where did you get your van, Ken? How much is it, is it possible to get in automatic?’ All these specific questions about the van, which obviously now makes sense in my head. At the time I didn’t think anything of it.”

He said only last week he had hosted a barbecue for locals, holding it on a green and inviting all the neighbours. Another resident of the neat, modern block said he had seen the suspect attending the local mosque and was certain the dead terrorist pictured lying on the ground was his neighbour.

He said: “I cannot understand why he would do something like this. He has a toddler and a baby, it’s madness.”

Samiya Mohammed, 18, said: “He lived there for about three years and would often have barbecues and would play football with the kids in the street.

“Whenever it was sunny he would come out and buy ice creams for the kids. I cannot believe that it is him.”

But a spokesman at the local Ahlulistiqamah Mosque said he was thrown out two years ago after clashing with the Imam over the general election.

The spokesman said: “The Imam was forced to ask him to leave two years ago. He was giving a speech on the up-and-coming general election and the Imam was explaining how it was important to vote wisely. He got angry, complaining that it was nothing to do with him, and interrupted the Imam. He was then asked to leave.”

Twelve people were arrested by *police at addresses in Barking, while during a raid in East Ham, a suspect made a rooftop dash for freedom, barefoot and in his pyjamas, as police marksmen threatened to shoot him. Shoppers witnessed five armed and masked police smash through a flat door connected to a Paddy Power betting shop on Barking Road.

Shimmy Ali, 32, who was out meeting a friend for lunch, said: “I looked and five masked men with guns were smashing into the flat. It took me a minute to realise they were police.

“A few seconds after they went in, a black man wearing a grey vest and blue joggers climbed out of the window above Paddy Power. A police marksman on the other side of the road was screaming to go back inside and saying he would shoot him.

“The man jumped on to the roof of Sam’s takeaway and then across to Barking Food and Wine. That’s where another officer managed to reach out and grab hold of him.”

[Deleted]

Maybe cuts to the police is a horrible idea?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...tremist-views/

London terrorist had twice been referred to police over his extremist views

Exact same with the Manchester attacker, both had been reported to the police for extremist views. Its worrying to think potentially how many others have been reported to anti terror police but have been ignored.

[zenkai]

It's sad innocent people have to suffer under the hands of crazy people.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Exact same with the Manchester attacker, both had been reported to the police for extremist views. Its worrying to think potentially how many others have been reported to anti terror police but have been ignored.

This is truly unsettling. If they were reported on not only once, but multiple occasions, these individuals should have been either very closely monitored or taken into custody.

Countries with a history of terrorism (see: Ireland, Spain) have been quite successful at dismantling Islamic terrorism because they take every single report very seriously and act accordingly. This is not bulletproof of course (see 2004 Madrid bombings), but has so far worked to defend against ISIS.

Hopefully, this happenings force a new kind of thinking into the police force on every country, this shit is escalating and only gets worse, extremists feel validated by the acts of others and will only go downhill until real countermeasures are taken.

[stabetha]

Selfkill in Islam is totally forbidden and there is not any verse in the Quran, Hadith or any historical book in Islam to kill innocent people not in war with you to get to paradise and meet 70 virgins. No intelligent muslim will believe in that story but sadly some youth people with lack of identity believe these fake imams. Why didn't this fake Imam go to the war himself? or send his kids because himself don't believe in that story.

But according to that book non believers are not innocent.

[Granyala]

Selfkill in Islam is totally forbidden and there is not any verse in the Quran, Hadith or any historical book in Islam to kill innocent people not in war with you to get to paradise and meet 70 virgins.

Problem is: from the extremists point of view, we ARE at war with the islamic world.

[GennGreymane]

Problem is: from the extremists point of view, we ARE at war with the islamic world.

Too be honest, I wouldnt say its an extremist view to say so, the west is heavily involved in the region (mostly the US) and countless civilians have died as a result. I am afraid of the kids not killed in these attacks growing up and what their mentality to the west will be.

[Granyala]

Too be honest, I wouldnt say its an extremist view to say so, the west is heavily involved in the region (mostly the US) and countless civilians have died as a result. I am afraid of the kids not killed in these attacks growing up and what their mentality to the west will be.

Aye, it won't be pretty.
Esp if they look at their history with open eyes and se all the crap the west has done down there to further economic and political agendas.

[Puremallace]

Last few attacks have been by residents returning to the UK and US. This was predicted in 2012 as what would happen when ISIS began to lose in Syria. The issue is people who left to fight for a foreign terrorist group and were allowed to come back.

If an American left to fight for the SS in Germany they were tried for treason upon their return. This is very simple if you ask me but requires some law changes that I think a a lot of Americans and Europeans would agree with.

[brimdog]

sheep, wolves, and sheep dogs. Which one are you?

[Themius]

Not Thirteen. Six. He did wait until she was a whole nine years old to sleep with her though.

That's not surprising... in the majority of older Europe it wasn't unusual for a child 3-5 years old or so to be betrothed, they wouldn't have sex until she was mature which back then was in fact around 13. It's also like this in much of the non-religious but more traditional world.

[Pannonian]

That's not surprising... in the majority of older Europe it wasn't unusual for a child 3-5 years old or so to be betrothed, they wouldn't have sex until she was mature which back then was in fact around 13. It's also like this in much of the non-religious but more traditional world.

To add to this: The importance of age is something relatively new. In olden times it was more important if you're mature enough. This wasn't determined by age, but by bodily development - menstruation - and as soon as this started you counted as a grown women. Of course that's different from person to person, but that's the reason why marriage even as low as 10/11 was seen as normal and ok.

[Spectral]

That's not surprising... in the majority of older Europe it wasn't unusual for a child 3-5 years old or so to be betrothed, they wouldn't have sex until she was mature which back then was in fact around 13. It's also like this in much of the non-religious but more traditional world.

The striking difference is that in most first world countries, someone that was marrying 9 year olds and banging 13 year olds isn't likely to be lionized as the perfect embodiment of all that is right and holy. Well, outside of Rotherham anyway, but that's pretty much a self-inflicted wound as well.

[GennGreymane]

Aye, it won't be pretty.
Esp if they look at their history with open eyes and se all the crap the west has done down there to further economic and political agendas.

Oh it wont be pretty at all, instead of real planning like a new Marshall plan, we instead took short cuts. We need long term infrastructure, but instead we did short term projects just to line contractor pockets.