US Pulls out of Paris Climate Accords

[Tijuana]

Then you missed the rest of the post, which explained why you were wrong, and phrasing things in a misleading manner.

It's like if you stole a red 2006 Honda Accord, and took it joyriding. And when the prosecution at your trial shows a black-and-white photo of the car you stole, you think that declaring that "the car you stole was RED, and that's clearly GRAY" is somehow gonna get you off on that technical detail.

When the reality is that you either don't understand what you're saying in the first place, or are playing semantic games deliberately and maliciously.

I don't recall accusing you of malice. Why not just keep it civil instead?

[Endus]

I don't recall accusing you of malice. Why not just keep it civil instead?

This is civil.

And I didn't accuse you of malice. I said it was either malicious, or you don't understand the basic concepts about which you're speaking. You've been moving goalposts, and making misleading statements.

You don't get to make false or misleading accusations and statements and then complain about "civility" when people point out how false or misleading those accusations were.

[Tijuana]

This is civil.

And I didn't accuse you of malice. I said it was either malicious, or you don't understand the basic concepts about which you're speaking. You've been moving goalposts, and making misleading statements.

You don't get to make false or misleading accusations and statements and then complain about "civility" when people point out how false or misleading those accusations were.

I don't recall calling you a liar. Why not just keep it civil instead?

[Tijuana]

He didn't call you a liar. It's enitrely possible you believe what you are saying is true.

Re-read it. The word misleading is a synonym for lying.

I mean, I'm kind of amazed that moderators are running around name calling and such but, this topic is sensitive to Endus, since it's his religion. Therefore, I'm not mad at him or whatever.

[Tijuana]

He gave multiple options for what you could be doing. I get that you latched on to the lying part for a reason, but maybe don't be so obvious about it.

Why would I want my points to be anything less than perfectly clear? What are you on about now?

[Maruka]

I guess after doing a bunch of reading, the accords seemed like a raw deal for the country and if the states are banding together anyways it pretty much worked out perfectly.

[bladeXcrasher]

I guess after doing a bunch of reading, the accords seemed like a raw deal for the country and if the states are banding together anyways it pretty much worked out perfectly.

The people thst are upset, are upset because the USA won't be putting money in the pool for developing countries.

[Samwise85]

I just don't think that America should be butting into Paris' climate. I don't understand why they would invite the entire world to try and fix it. If Paris messed up its climate they should be the ones to fix it not America.

[Santti]

I just don't think that America should be butting into Paris' climate. I don't understand why they would invite the entire world to try and fix it. If Paris messed up its climate they should be the ones to fix it not America.

Who's alt account are you?

[Wikiy]

The people thst are upset, are upset because the USA won't be putting money in the pool for developing countries.

Actually, literally no one is upset about that.

But yeah, god forbid the idea of better-off countries helping those that aren't as lucky.

[bladeXcrasher]

Actually, literally no one is upset about that.

But yeah, god forbid the idea of better-off countries helping those that aren't as lucky.

Except that it is. If the USA stayed in and just didn't pay the other 2B you would see the same shit storm we are now.

[Wikiy]

Except that it is. If the USA stayed in and just didn't pay the other 2B you would see the same shit storm we are now.

Yes, because staying in means you agree to pay, lol, that's part of the agreement. However, it doesn't mean it's the point of the agreement. And, you know, just because your president said you're leaving because of that part, it doesn't mean everyone is upset because of that part. People don't care about that part that much. They care about actually protecting the environment, and they see America officially leaving as a general "fuck you" to the whole idea of slowing down climate change. Because, you know, that's the point of the agreement.

[Kiri]

Yes, because staying in means you agree to pay, lol, that's part of the agreement. However, it doesn't mean it's the point of the agreement. And, you know, just because your president said you're leaving because of that part, it doesn't mean everyone is upset because of that part. People don't care about that part that much. They care about actually protecting the environment, and they see America officially leaving as a general "fuck you" to the whole idea of slowing down climate change. Because, you know, that's the point of the agreement.

Actually, the 2B were a voluntary contribution the US pledged to make. It was not tied to staying in the accords at all.
The rest is correct though (and the voluntary nature makes the US look even worse for pulling out tbh)

[bladeXcrasher]

Yes, because staying in means you agree to pay, lol, that's part of the agreement. However, it doesn't mean it's the point of the agreement. And, you know, just because your president said you're leaving because of that part, it doesn't mean everyone is upset because of that part. People don't care about that part that much. They care about actually protecting the environment, and they see America officially leaving as a general "fuck you" to the whole idea of slowing down climate change. Because, you know, that's the point of the agreement.

We have been reducing emissions for over a decade, well before this accord and before the last one Bush refused to sign. To think all of a sudden we would stop something we have been doing on our own for almost 20 years is laughable.

[Endus]

Right over your head. There were multiple options for why you might be posting fallacious statements. Not all of them included you being a liar. Lying implies intent. If you are simply misinformed or the like it wouldn't qualify as lying. Somehow you think the only option is that you're a liar. Which would lead many to believe the logical choice from the various options is, you guessed it, you're deliberately being misleading. Best part is, you're the one who basically confirmed it.

To be clear, I'm saying it's likely you're a liar. Endus never made any such claim.

Right. The possible options with regards to Tijuana's comments in this thread regarding natural gas are that Tijuana was either;

1> Grossly misinformed by propaganda sites that fed him terrible and misleading information,
2> He was reacting off a glance at a couple news articles he did not investigate fully nor understand the proper context of, or
3> Deliberately and maliciously spreading that same misinformation himself, willingly.

Only in the latter case would Tijuana be "lying".

There's no case, however, where Tijuana is in any way correct in the overall discussion, and his actions have been to move goalposts when challenged and then try and blame his opponents for his doing so, which leads me to suspect malice.

Anyone can see this. I detailed it earlier, and Tijuana didn't even contest it when it was pointed out; he ignored the point and tried to distract with another moved goalpost; the nitpicking about "carbon emissions" when the real issue is greenhouses gases as a whole, not just CO2.

- - - Updated - - -

We have been reducing emissions for over a decade, well before this accord and before the last one Bush refused to sign. To think all of a sudden we would stop something we have been doing on our own for almost 20 years is laughable.

You realize this is why leaving the Paris Agreement is so incredibly stupid, right?

It's throwing a tantrum over $3 billion in spending that you could only face international frowny-faces for not paying, while continuing to otherwise abide by the strictures, while pissing off almost every single other country in the world, to a greater degree than just refusing to pay would have, with the direct insult that abandoning the Agreement amounts to.

Trump could have done literally nothing, and the USA would have been beholden to exactly the same requirements they will by leaving, and without facing any of the international rebuke. It's jamming your finger in your own eye because "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me." Well, you do you, I guess.

[bladeXcrasher]

You realize this is why leaving the Paris Agreement is so incredibly stupid, right?

It's throwing a tantrum over $3 billion in spending that you could only face international frowny-faces for not paying, while continuing to otherwise abide by the strictures, while pissing off almost every single other country in the world, to a greater degree than just refusing to pay would have, with the direct insult that abandoning the Agreement amounts to.

Trump could have done literally nothing, and the USA would have been beholden to exactly the same requirements they will by leaving, and without facing any of the international rebuke. It's jamming your finger in your own eye because "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me." Well, you do you, I guess.

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't...as ridiculous as cliches are.

On a personal note, playing lip service to a 195 country handshake agreement is worthless. If there was any level of accountability then the whole thing would hold water. As is, the worlds largest polluter by far is being left to its word. Thing is, anyone who has had any dealings with said country, knows that their word is shit and they are notorious for taking the easy way out with things.

To say not paying would have not begotten any rebuke is laughable, it would have been the same shot storm because Trump.

[Endus]

You are damned if you do, damned if you don't...as ridiculous as cliches are.

On a personal note, playing lip service to a 195 country handshake agreement is worthless. If there was any level of accountability then the whole thing would hold water. As is, the worlds largest polluter by far is being left to its word. Thing is, anyone who has had any dealings with said country, knows that their word is shit and they are notorious for taking the easy way out with things.

To say not paying would have not begotten any rebuke is laughable, it would have been the same shot storm because Trump.

It's not that you'd have faced no rebuke. It's that it would have been at the same level as this, it wouldn't have been a factor until 2020 when the deadline hit, and it wouldn't have been seen as the deliberate snub this was.

[Osmeric]

It's not that you'd have faced no rebuke. It's that it would have been at the same level as this, it wouldn't have been a factor until 2020 when the deadline hit, and it wouldn't have been seen as the deliberate snub this was.

There is value in again reminding the rest of the world that binding agreements with the US require the approval of the legislature.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Melt Antarctica and live there. Kappa

[bladeXcrasher]

It's not that you'd have faced no rebuke. It's that it would have been at the same level as this, it wouldn't have been a factor until 2020 when the deadline hit, and it wouldn't have been seen as the deliberate snub this was.

Trump wasn't exactly subtle about this since it was one of the things he campaigned on.

There is value in again reminding the rest of the world that binding agreements with the US require the approval of the legislature.

Pretty much this.