Arms Legion Discussion

[mysticx]

ah you are correct. But why the damage nerf?

I think Cleave actually hurt something, it has been pretty weak all expansion, so why ruin a "good" thing?

Sarcasm aside, aren't tuning things like these the sort of thing that PTR testing should have caught before release?

[Stanislav]

it seems like alot of the top warriors are using a stat-stick trinket and a legendary one, its auto crit but its also hitting for 1.6mil~

this is day one data and the helm isnt available to 99% of the players so the trinket is 3rd BIS or maybe even 2nd?

i dont have it myself so can anyone confirm how good this setup is?

[Holofernes]

draught only worked by cd stackings. most current arms dont even run avatar, so no point in using draught. arcano /statstick + legendary trinket is the best combi u can have right now i think, and most other arms think the same.

[Deleted]

I think they overnerfed t20 for arms.

While using ravager the 2 part is useless because you want to sync bc and ravager
And the 4 part gives you a "huge" 2 free MS every minute, that sound weak as fuck, arguably the weakest set bonus ever made.

Bladestorm is a bit better but not that much.

They made on of the top 3 t20 set into the worst, literally

[Bigbazz]

I think they overnerfed t20 for arms.

While using ravager the 2 part is useless because you want to sync bc and ravager
And the 4 part gives you a "huge" 2 free MS every minute, that sound weak as fuck, arguably the weakest set bonus ever made.

Bladestorm is a bit better but not that much.

They made on of the top 3 t20 set into the worst, literally

If you're wanting to sync Ravager with Battle Cry you'd have to really run COF anyway otherwise you're very de-synced or you're wasting CD usage to sync them. Right now most people are not playing Ravager build but OPS, of course Ravager builds (with high ilvl COF) were very competitive on the PTR even if they aren't being widely talked about, but those builds revolved heavily around the burst phase of Ravager with the T20, which is now considerably weaker.

So i think that built might well be killed off, leaving us with balerina and rend builds. To be honest I'm probably going to skip a return and check out the game in when Argos (lol) comes.

[Deleted]

Have you guys found out if its worth keeping 4pT19+CoF or go for better itemized item with more haste/mast?

[Chakerlak]

Hi guys

I loot the new helm, but without the 4p T20 it´s shiaaaat (sorry) and the new build FoB/trauma is shiaat too. WW cost all my Rage and hit very low.
At the doll i lost 100k DPS since yesterday

[Bigbazz]

Personally never used COF to begin with as Arms and it always simmed poorly, only used it on the PTR with Ravager T20 builds because it allowed perfect sync (and was the only way to achieve it.). Other than that I don't think COF is a very good choice for Arms. Multiple simcraft tests with different sets suggests Haste = Mastery > Crit > Verse = STR when running the balerina build, with stats pretty close together, which if it's accurate would mean there is little benefit to chasing itemisation at the expense of ilvl or set bonuses.

T19 set bonuses are still worthwhile too, no reason to not use them.

[Deleted]

Never used CoF as arms? Then you never saw those 20-25sec bc cds...

[Bigbazz]

Never used CoF as arms? Then you never saw those 20-25sec bc cds...

Well it's about what you gain and what you lose, COF always simmed poorly because damage was based around large 1m30s bursts, which means there was little benefit to having a 25s BC window when they are only needed every 30s, so that it syncs up with every DOS + Avatar burst. With gloves + ring the CD of BC was already sub 30s a lot of the time.

Then you take into account that it was just an STR stat stick, our weakest stat. Even an 860 Arcano was clear ahead of my 915 COF in Arms sims. COF is incredible if it brings the timing of the BC cooldown in line with important events for burst sync, otherwise it's pointless because the benefit is wasted.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Am currently trying to adapt to dauntless-trauma-fervor-iftk-anger management build.
Something feels...off.
have to wait for thursday raid night for final verdict.

[dacoolist]

I see no issue here.

Love this so much, my GOD <333

[Anbokr]

no fun allowed for war, the helm has been nerfed aswell.
i'm not sure bladestorm +bc is the way to go in ST with t20 considering the nerfs

What was the helm nerfed to?

I mean I'd rather take item nerfs over baseline kit nerfs (though knowing blizz we end up with both kek), but yeah, if the set piece got cut by 50% AND the helm got nerfed -- legitimately went from one of the most powerful bonuses to one of the worst.

The set would have been fine at 4 MS and the helm at 4-5% damage per tick. The problem here is the synergy they had together was so absurdly powerful, but they are both going to end up as an incredibly weak baseline. Helm will be trash without the tier set, and tier set will be pretty awful without the helm. That's not good design.

[Chakerlak]

The set would have been fine at 4 MS and the helm at 4-5% damage per tick. The problem here is the synergy they had together was so absurdly powerful, but they are both going to end up as an incredibly weak baseline. Helm will be trash without the tier set, and tier set will be pretty awful without the helm. That's not good design.

Thats like the Ayalas with the golden trait...
if you have 4p T20, Helm and the Ring uuuuuufff

[Morally Grey Storm]

Ayala is bad how? BEcause of poor itemization?

[Holofernes]

did some simming and testing today, after the hotfixes, and came up with following two build proposals for single target:

Build 1:
Dauntless - trauma- Titanic might - In for the kill - Ravager (always copple ravager + bc), slam as filler.
Reasoning:
Ravager for having max benefit of trauma due to more globals (slams) benefitting from it.

This will probably be the t20 built too, but it needs a kind of bc reduction to make coupling possible. Currently , t20 is a theoretic mess for arms warriors. CoF could be the saviour for this style in t20.

t20 2 set makes warrior desync everything, it should be changed or at least give players a toggle to use 4 set bonus without 2 set messing everything up.
Dauntless is in , because execute phase cannot be sustained 100 % with the ideal 2*exec cs ms, so it helps out in execute phase, otherwhise its totaly not benefitial to anything in this spec.
For multitarget, just go sweeping strikes and everything is fine, u have a little less rage for executing but its fine.

Build 2:
Overpower - rend - titanic might- in for the kill - Opportunity striks.

Both sim within a 0.4 % of each other. I got better results with ravager build on the dummy than simcraft suggests as possible, without even using flask, food and heroism / lust.

overpower rend build seems to be very engaging, sims 0,4 % higher, and relys on changing your filler spell to rend + op as much as possible. I personally got higher ingame results with Build 1.


fervorr of battle sim higher by 1-3 % but cannot hold up this to reality testing, i think simcraft latest build doesnt reflect the newest hotfixes, and generally is buggy with its whirlwind and cleave usage.
(it tells me that 36 of 500 seconds of the fight time spent doing cleave, while cleave is not used once in the dmg done part of simcraft... does it suggest that i turn around and cleave into the empty space, than use the cleave buff for a whirlwind???)

Opp strikes seem to be only relevant for ragegain in execute phase, not for its dmg. Its dmg is very underwhelming and probably should be buffed.

Execute phase findings:

2*execute cs ms is the ideal u strive for. It is mostly sustainable with my gear level. If u dont get a cs , just continue executing until cs procs or another way of getting shattered defence is available, or u have bc up. having a non crit ms consuming 2 execute stacks is a waste, its better to press another execute in this situation until u make sure that ms is highly likely critting. The probability of cs not proccing after ms 2* exec is pretty low. after a 3rd exec its very low. not having it proced after the 5. exec (220 rage spent), means, u won the lottery.

[McJiggles]

With not using deadly calm should we been pooling rage prior to battle cry phases. I was playing around last night and you can easily get rage starved with a tacticial dry spell and then go into Battle cry with no rage. Feels like a major waste of a BC when you just whirlwind twice.

[Hoeth]

Having a hard time believing anyone could consider this dauntless/trauma/fervor/OpS horseshit build an improvement over FR. Unbelievably boring IMO.

[Bigbazz]

Having a hard time believing anyone could consider this dauntless/trauma/fervor/OpS horseshit build an improvement over FR. Unbelievably boring IMO.

This is how I feel, but don't forget there was an army of players who found FR too hard to play and in effort to preserve their egos interpreted that as "bad design", some of them quite vocal and animated about the topic. So while everyone was complaining about ballerina spec in WOD, we have an even more prominent ballerina spec now and a lot of them spent the expansion pack asking for it.

[cszsolt3]

Having a hard time believing anyone could consider this dauntless/trauma/fervor/OpS horseshit build an improvement over FR. Unbelievably boring IMO.

FR was broken game design. The current iteration is just extremely boring game design. Can't say one is necessarily superior to the other, but I can see how someone would've enjoyed FR more even with the glaringly retarded problems it had.