Civilians shouldn't have access to weapons

[Zeek Daniels]

Why do we sell guns?

Simple answer? Read the constitution.
Longer answer? Go read what caused the revolutionary war.

Other than that Criminals will gain access to guns through illegal means whether or not guns are legal or illegal to own. And how exactly are you going to defend yourself?

[Jaransan]

I mean. I feel theres room for a middle here? While other countries besides the states get by just fine with gun control - too many people in the states already have guns to feasibly take them without it being tyrannical. At best Id argue that anything greater than simple hunting weapons and sidearms should have all ammo for it locked up at SHOOTING RANGES. Pistols are moderately effective for home defense and many rifles are for hunting, but anything thats going to give the animal your hunting lead poisoning is purely unneccesary for anything but recreational shooting on a range or mass murder.

[mickybrighteyes]

I feel as though people who talk about how civilians shouldn't have weapons never learned history....

When the people lack the means to arm themselves, that really only leads to the people getting fucked over by those who DO arm themselves. Some people like to twist this into some idea that they don't trust state level entities, but really you should also remember that just because something's illegal doesn't mean people aren't capable of doing [insert act made illegal].

[Deleted]

Simple answer? Read the constitution.
Longer answer? Go read what caused the revolutionary war.

Other than that Criminals will gain access to guns through illegal means whether or not guns are legal or illegal to own. And how exactly are you going to defend yourself?

Criminals do not commonly ask themselves in countries where guns are banned.

I don't think any one is going to arm themselves with semi-automatic firearms to protect themselves from state tyranny. Fully automatic weapons are already banned.

[Jaransan]

I feel as though people who talk about how civilians shouldn't have weapons never learned history....

When the people lack the means to arm themselves, that really only leads to the people getting fucked over by those who DO arm themselves. Some people like to twist this into some idea that they don't trust state level entities, but really you should also remember that just because something's illegal doesn't mean people aren't capable of doing [insert act made illegal].

The thing is, there is a middle ground. But for some reason people into guns are really really against even the idea that things like mental health issues should preclude you from -at the very least- the most dangerous guns. While i personally dont think a bipolar person for instance should have easy access to something they could kill themselves or others with on a bad day, groups like the nra for instance lobby to make even basic studies on the topic more or less impossible

[Semune]

Those who want to use guns maliciously do not care whether or not they are "legal".

Only the naive and heartless want guns gone. Imagine an intruder breaking into your home without you having a gun to defend your family? You are a failure as a human being if this situation ever happens, and deserve anything that comes to you for putting your family in harms way.

[Calfredd]

A gun isn't a weapon, its a tool. Like a butcher knife, or a harpoon, or an alligator. You just need more education on the topic. I'll tell you what, lets argue more on MMo Champion, and if you still don't agree guns are great, we can argue some more.

Seriously though, yes people need guns. How many people died recently from getting run over, stabbed or blown up by home made bombs? People will always find a way to kill people. Guns allow us to kill criminals and home invaders quickly and easily. There is a post up right now about how a guy stopped two escaped murders with a gun. He wouldn't have been able to without it.

This really confuses me. If a gun is not a weapon, then what is?

Also there's this wiki page

A weapon, arm, or armament is any device used with intent to inflict damage or harm to living beings, structures, or systems. Weapons are used to increase the efficacy and efficiency of activities such as hunting, crime, law enforcement, self-defense, and warfare. In a broader context, weapons may be construed to include anything used to gain a strategic, material or mental advantage over an adversary.

While just about any ordinary objects such as sticks, stones, cars, or pencils can be used as weapons, many are expressly designed for the purpose – ranging from simple implements such as clubs, swords and guns, to complicated modern intercontinental ballistic missiles, biological and cyberweapons.

[Nalorakk]

Human with bigger gun always wins.
unless we remove all emotions including greed from humanity civilian disarmament is not a option and only exists to further dictatorships.

*Human who uses gun faster and/or more accurately.

All firearms are over a threshold of lethality that the common person should not have access to.

[Eldar45]

Freedom doesn't exist without power. It is kinda like the old saying that "God made all men, Samuel Colt made all men equal". Without a way to hold the government accountable, which at the most extreme requires force of arms, then you have no freedom. You have an assurance. The Constitution is just a peace of paper without the power of the people to back it up.

You are exactly what Benjamin Franklin was talking about when he said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." You would trade your liberty of personal power for the safety of no one having that power... except for the same people that power is meant to protect you from.


I guarantee someone is going to bemoan this post with "The government would never do that" and "You're just a paranoid Conservative moron" and "Bla Bla Bla".

Then I point at Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Fascist Spain, Stalinist Russia and Maoist China and I point at the recent elections in Turkey where they have essentially elected a dictator. Tyranny takes over in the blink of an eye and from out of no where. It has almost become a cliche at this point but the saying is true: The Second Amendment assures the rest of them.

All firearms are over a threshold of lethality that the common person should not have access to.

The common person should have access to all the lethality of the state otherwise the common man has no power over the state.




I'll also give a cliche answer that holds a lot of truth: The illegalization of drugs hasn't stopped the sell of drugs in the USA, which kill by far more people every hear than guns, and it is in fact becoming an epidemic. I make the assumption that banning guns would do the exact same thing: Basically nothing. Especially since a majority of gun crimes are a criminal gang member killing another criminal gang member. These people will not comply with Gun bans and in fact by banning guns you are in essence taking the horns and hooves away from the Gazelle instead of taking the teeth and claws away from the Lion.

[Calfredd]

I'll also give a cliche answer that holds a lot of truth: The legalizing of drugs hasn't stopped the sell of drugs in the USA, which kill by far more people every hear than guns, and it is in fact becoming an epidemic. I make the assumption that banning guns would do the exact same thing: Basically nothing.

I think you misspelled war on drugs.

[Rend Blackhand]

People should have the right to defend their own lives. If a madman attacks you in the streets on in your home, the police would never get to you in time.

Disarmed civilians are at the mercy of criminals, how is it considered moral to stand and die for nothing when you could protect yourself with a weapon?

[Eldar45]

I think you misspelled war on drugs.

Derp. Its 3:30 in the morning here and my brain is a little scrambled. Fixing.

[Semune]

People should have the right to defend their own lives. If a madman attacks you in the streets on in your home, the police would never get to you in time.

Disarmed civilians are at the mercy of criminals, how is it considered moral to stand and die for nothing when you could protect yourself with a weapon?

Agreed, I think it's just because this is a video game forum. A lot of people here are sheltered and have a skewed view of reality.

This is why I don't think this sort of discussion will ever matter, because most people in the world that look at a forum like this come to the same realization, naive children that don't understand reality thinking they're on a moral high ground calling for guns to be banned.

[Cruor]

This really confuses me. If a gun is not a weapon, then what is?

Also there's this wiki page

Really? Maybe a pokemon quote would be more your speed? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtxxwcQ20Fw

[Calfredd]

Really? Maybe a pokemon quote would be more your speed? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtxxwcQ20Fw

Do you know how long it's been since I've watched anything Simpsons related? A very long time! I curse you sir for using old references! Curse I say!

[mickybrighteyes]

The thing is, there is a middle ground. But for some reason people into guns are really really against even the idea that things like mental health issues should preclude you from -at the very least- the most dangerous guns. While i personally dont think a bipolar person for instance should have easy access to something they could kill themselves or others with on a bad day, groups like the nra for instance lobby to make even basic studies on the topic more or less impossible

That delves into other issues that also aren't properly discussed. Like apparently anyone who served in the Marines and gets out is effectively declared mentally unsound unless it's been like 2-7 years after their active duty term.

Sure some of the high caliber shit is blatant overkill, and the fact that body armor is more illegal than firearms is also pretty fubar'd. All in all, it's just a discussion that isn't going to take place in the current environment and will just turn into an all or nothing thing cause that's all anyone can really get others to mobilize against.

[Santti]

In the US? I'm afraid that boat sailed long time a go.

[RobertoCarlos]

1776 will commence again if you try to take our firearms!!!

[stomination]

Race in the US is heavily correlated with economic class, and therefore crime. Red herring.

economic class is heavily correlated to races...

[LaserChild9]

Human with bigger gun always wins.
unless we remove all emotions including greed from humanity civilian disarmament is not a option and only exists to further dictatorships.

Yes, because any nation that is smart enough to have strict rules regarding guns must be a dictatorship. How are your guns going to protect you from a rising Dictatorship? When the army turns up in your town with tanks and drones, how the fuck is your pissy little pistol going to do anything other than get you killed? The 2nd amendment goes back to 1790 when a gun was a gun and there was nothing more advanced, so yeah, you could have fought against a dictatorship but in the modern day unless you extend those laws to tanks and military drones and military grade equipment there is literally fuck all you can do if your leader so chooses to roll a dictatorship over your country.