Campus Crazyness Continues

[Endus]

And yet it should. For someone who's pro-worker's rights, you'd think you'd want to defend an employee's right act "less than professional" when not on the clock. This puts a bit too much power in the hands of the employer. If the employer were the government, it would be a violation of the first amendment. Note, we're not talking about someone calling someone a racial slur, etc. We're talking about someone defending themselves from a false accusation, albeit in an unkindly manner.

Man, there's a lot to unpack here.

Yes, I support worker's rights. I also support employer's rights to not have to employ someone who's making their company/organization look bad.

We're not talking about actions in private. Posting stuff to Facebook or Twitter is public.

This doesn't apply just to professionals. If you're working the fryer at McDonalds and you start posting "man, some of our customers are STUPID" type posts to Twitter, if they can tie your Twitter to your identity, that'll get you fired, even if you're "off the clock".

"If the employer were the government" is a ridiculous "if". They're entirely different things, so saying "if context was totally different, the way things went would also be different" is nonsensical. Especially since badmouthing people on Twitter would still get you fired from government jobs, because First Amendment stuff doesn't apply to that.

There's no demonstration that this was a "false accusation", and regardless, responding to an accusation would never justify acting out in a bad way like this.

[Mistame]

Yes, I support worker's rights. I also support employer's rights to not have to employ someone who's making their company/organization look bad.

And that's fine if they're doing something actually wrong.

We're not talking about actions in private. Posting stuff to Facebook or Twitter is public.

Fair point. This is why you deny public access to your feeds.

There's no demonstration that this was a "false accusation", and regardless, responding to an accusation would never justify acting out in a bad way like this.

You understand that if you call someone racist because of something they say that's not actually racist, that's a false accusation, right?

[Endus]

And that's fine if they're doing something actually wrong.

In this case, "wrong" is defined by their employer.

You understand that if you call someone racist because of something they say that's not actually racist, that's a false accusation, right?

Not if you thought it was racist, it wasn't.

[Rooflesstoofless]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-racist.html


Black student accuses white professor of racism, white teacher gets fired. Who do you guys think was in the wrong here. The teacher using social media was kind of dumb, but you should be able to defend yourself from accusations of racism. Is the university system failing? Is this the a long term effect of affirmative action?

Depends. We don't know what the teacher said on social media. Having two parent households in black families was extremely common back then compared to how rare it is now days so the girl could have gotten all butthurt about that but we don't know.

[Mistame]

Not if you thought it was racist, it wasn't.

It's cute that you think "racist" is subjective. If there's no evidence of a belief of racial inferiority or superiority, it's literally not racist.

[Saucexorzski]

It's cute that you think "racist" is subjective. If there's no evidence of a belief of racial inferiority or superiority, it's literally not racist.

no no its fine, you see this means Endus is an authoritarian because some folks here think he is authoritarian in his actions.

[McFuu]

Not if you thought it was racist, it wasn't.

Wow.

There really is no justification for this line of thought.
I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say; So because the student thinks the teacher is racist, even though there is no supportable evidence, she is allowed to make the accusation that the teacher is racist. And this doesn't constitute a false accusation?

[Deleted]

She was fired for unprofessional behaviour towards a student, not anything to do with accusations of racism.

Pretty much every single professional association I'm aware of has a code of ethics that its members adhere to, and that code of ethics is followed 24/7/365. You're never not acting under it. It doesn't matter if you're at work or not. Heck, it doesn't even matter if you're employed or not; a lawyer who doesn't have a job who breaches the ethical rules can (and will) be disbarred as a result and be unable to practice law.

You are using different meanings of profession in these two.
If you refer to the ethical responsibilities a professional has, the university has no place addressing them. Those are to be discerned, and punished, by whatever deontological tribunal the professional association has. The university, in that aspect is only the employer.
If you refer to professional as in one's paid occupation (not an amateur, or hobbyist), then yes: the university is the one setting the standards (ethical or otherwise).

In this case, "wrong" is defined by their employer.

Precisely: it's the second. No professional ethics code required.

[Endus]

Wow.

There really is no justification for this line of thought.
I really hope I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say; So because the student thinks the teacher is racist, even though there is no supportable evidence, she is allowed to make the accusation that the teacher is racist. And this doesn't constitute a false accusation?

Of course it doesn't. A "false accusation" is an accusation that was made fraudulently, knowing it was untrue. An accusation that failed to show merit, if honestly believed, was not a "false accusation", just one without merit. Not the same thing.

For instance, if a girl accuses a guy of rape, but there's not enough evidence to convict, that doesn't make it a "false accusation". If the guy was in another city and they never had contact and she knew this but wanted to ruin his life, that would be a false accusation.

If a student felt unfairly targeted, and accused their professor of this, an inquiry finding no evidence of this doesn't make it a "false accusation". It just means the student was wrong. That's not the same thing.

[Deleted]

Man, there's a lot to unpack here.
Yes, I support worker's rights. I also support employer's rights to not have to employ someone who's making their company/organization look bad.

There was nothing much to unpack there.
Supporting worker's rights has implicit the recognition that they must be asymmetric in nature. Which is what Mistame's posts amounts to: puts a bit too much power in the hands of the employer.
An employer having the capacity to dictate what is /professional/ or not is precisely an unacceptable power overreach. "Professional" in that response being the one you're conflating (that of the professional ethics code).

[McFuu]

Of course it doesn't. A "false accusation" is an accusation that was made fraudulently, knowing it was untrue. An accusation that failed to show merit, if honestly believed, was not a "false accusation", just one without merit. Not the same thing.

For instance, if a girl accuses a guy of rape, but there's not enough evidence to convict, that doesn't make it a "false accusation". If the guy was in another city and they never had contact and she knew this but wanted to ruin his life, that would be a false accusation.

But there is no evidence the teacher is actually racist. The delusions of the accuser doesn't magically change the accusation from being any less false. Honestly accusation without basis/merit and false accusation are exactly the same. I've never seen those used as having a different meaning before you just did. And after a bit of googlefu, I'm not seeing anywhere where there is a distinction. An accusation without merit is still a false accusation. If you can't prove something happened with evidence, it has to be assumed that it didn't happen.

Basically you are saying that anyone can accuse anyone else of racism, and that the accused is guilty until they prove their own innocence.

[Endus]

Basically you are saying that anyone can accuse anyone else of racism, and that the accused is guilty until they prove their own innocence.

The real world isn't a court of law. Presumption of innocence doesn't exist, no.

[downnola]

The real world isn't a court of law. Presumption of innocence doesn't exist, no.

That's an awfully cynical point of view you have there.

[PACOX]

Teacher was fired for poor conduct and judgement.

[Deleted]

That's an awfully cynical point of view you have there.

Well, it's true that some people have no such principles and process information without any regard for basic logic. This forum is filled with them.
From the rabblerousers that can't keep it in their pants when it comes to Muslims, to the drones that think you should be able to prove a negative.

[downnola]

Well, it's true that some people have no such principles and process information without any regard for basic logic. This forum is filled with them.
From the rabblerousers that can't keep it in their pants when it comes to Muslims, to the drones that think you should be able to prove a negative.

They're rash people and are obviously not a model for how one should act. Similarly, the types that throw accusations of racism around are also rash people who are not models for how one should act. Calling someone a racist, especially a teacher, is a serious charge. It's an attack on their character and reputation and it's not easy to remove the aura that it casts on the person once it's been invoked. Despite the seriousness of the charge, people like the accuser in this story wield the power of the accusation like a kid who just found their dads revolver in his night stand. What real evidence does the accuser have in this situation to call the teacher a racist? As far as I can tell only the identity of the parties involved, which is pure bullshit.

[Dhrizzle]

Her social media activity certainly seems inappropriate, but what policies are in place to to protect reputations from false accusations of racism? How many leftist professors have been fired for social media conduct?

Well there's this one you find so important, can't you dredge up the rest from the Daily Mail and whatever other trash you like to sift through?

[Deleted]

They're rash people and are obviously not a model for how one should act. Similarly, the types that throw accusations of racism around are also rash people who are not models for how one should act. Calling someone a racist, especially a teacher, is a serious charge. It's an attack on their character and reputation and it's not easy to remove the aura that it casts on the person once it's been invoked. Despite the seriousness of the charge, people like the accuser in this story wield the power of the accusation like a kid who just found their dads revolver in his night stand.

Far too many toddlers in this story. One of them should have known better.

[Deleted]

Very unprofessional of the teacher. Also, multiple choice questions for something so broad is just stupid.

[Sunseeker]

She was fired for unprofessional behaviour towards a student, not anything to do with accusations of racism.

THIS.

Not sure why any teacher would think it is acceptable to behave the way she did. You get challenges from students all the time, in college students should be encouraged to form their own perspectives and then be able to support those positions. If a professor can't stand to be challenged (by reasonably formed arguments) on their positions then that person should not be a professor.

The answer to the question seems odd to me and the question itsself seems aimed at promoting a specific narrative, rather than actually teaching history.

So frankly all you 'cons out there should be happy that a professor who was pushing a personal narrative on history was challenged by a free-thinking student, then reacted in a highly unprofessional manner and was subsequently fired.

- - - Updated - - -

Very unprofessional of the teacher. Also, multiple choice questions for something so broad is just stupid.

Also THIS.

Multiple choice questions should either have a clear answer, or an extra space to support the answer you choose.