How easily would aliens occupy earth if they decided to invade?

[Dezerte]

If they could travel here, they most likely would have to be intelligent enough and technologically advanced enough to be able occupy us very easily. I'm thinking a globe-spanning network of weaponized satellites with pinpoint accuracy (for "crowd control" anywhere on the planet) could be one method of controlling us, without even having step foot on our planet.

[Saybel]

Please provide evidence of how c can be circumnavigated. That is baseless speculation. Alcubierre drives produce at least million of degrees in temperature inside the spacetime bubble and any object inside would be destroyed.

It is about technology, not the "hard limit of reality" because that reality always changes.

That is categorically incorrect. Reality has not changed.

I'm not arguing a negative because I am stating a fact. c is the limit of how fast information can travel in the universe, if you want to move anything faster then c (which is impossible) then the information you receive will never be the same as the information that is sent.

[Jimmy Thick]

Hey, I had a dream about this scenario.

In the end Randy Quaid sacrificed himself by flying a plane into a mothership and Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum corrupt another mothership with a computer virus while smoking cigars and the world of humanity ultimately wins as the mothership explodes like Fouth of July fireworks.

I hope to one day experience this same scenario but won't pull a Randy Quaid because I can't fly a plane. I'll smoke the cigar though.

[cubby]

Please provide evidence of how c can be circumnavigated. That is baseless speculation. Alcubierre drives produce at least million of degrees in temperature inside the spacetime bubble and any object inside would be destroyed.

Provide evidence of a future technology? I'll get right on that for you. How long can you hold your breath?

I'm talking about drive tech that visiting aliens might have. Alcubierre is one of three theoretical drives that humans could use in the relatively near future to travel past c and into the stars. Alien species might have something even better. Probably will.

That is categorically incorrect. Reality has not changed.

I'm not arguing a negative because I am stating a fact. c is the limit of how fast information can travel in the universe, if you want to move anything faster then c (which is impossible) then the information you receive will never be the same as the information that is sent.

You arguing a negative because you're stating we'll never disprove a theory, or find a work-around to pass it by.

And you're wrong. Use a Mail Drone with an FTL drive and you get info from one place to another faster than c. Without changing the information. That's why I made the analogy to the Pony Express. And it's just one solution. There are others.

And those are just ones we've theorized here on Terra - imagine what other species might come up with.

[Dezerte]

It is theoretically possible to circumvent the vast distances of space by traveling "outside space", which is not considered impossible according to our current theories of physics and the universe (if I remember correctly). You'd still not be traveling faster than light though, as it wouldn't even be "traveling" to begin with, and any light in "outside space" would "travel" just as "fast" as you did.

[cubby]

It is theoretically possible to circumvent the vast distances of space by traveling "outside space", which is not considered impossible according to our current theories of physics and the universe (if I remember correctly). You'd still not be traveling faster than light though, as it wouldn't even be "traveling" to begin with, and any light in "outside space" would "travel" just as "fast" as you did.

That's just semantics, and it can be argued the other way as well. But it's beside the point. The results are what counts - which is what @Saybel and I were arguing.

Which is how you would get far reaching species being able to keep in reasonable communication with each other.

(apologies Dezerte, my response to you was harsher than I intended - your point is very valid, and absolutely accurate)

[Elim Garak]

It is theoretically possible to circumvent the vast distances of space by traveling "outside space", which is not considered impossible according to our current theories of physics and the universe (if I remember correctly). You'd still not be traveling faster than light though, as it wouldn't even be "traveling" to begin with, and any light in "outside space" would "travel" just as "fast" as you did.

That actually will be travelling faster than light. Travelling is the key word as it's just moving from A to B. As long as you don't move with an absolute speed of light or higher - you are good to travel as fast as you can, relatively speaking.

[Saybel]

Provide evidence of a future technology? I'll get right on that for you. How long can you hold your breath?

I'm talking about drive tech that visiting aliens might have. Alcubierre is one of three theoretical drives that humans could use in the relatively near future to travel past c and into the stars. Alien species might have something even better.

Every drive that has been proposed creates impossible conditions for the inhabitants/contents of whatever is being transported. The maximum temperature under which something can theoretically maintain its form is around 6000c - those compounds are only theoretical too and we are talking of temperatures and pressures which are several orders of magnitude larger then what we know of. There is no compound that will ever be able to take this level of stress.

[cubby]

Every drive that has been proposed creates impossible conditions for the inhabitants/contents of whatever is being transported. The maximum temperature under which something can theoretically maintain its form is around 6000c - those compounds are only theoretical too and we are talking of temperatures and pressures which are several orders of magnitude larger then what we know of. There is no compound that will ever be able to take this level of stress.

Again with the trying-to-prove a negative. Stop it.

Remember carbon fiber thirty years ago and what we were doing with it? You catching on yet . . . ?

[Synros]

They're already here. I mean, just look at Christopher Walken. There's no way that guy isn't an alien. That's exactly how an alien who doesn't understand human mannerism, would speak English...

[Deleted]

Very easily, until they discover that we humans put Pineapple on pizza, at which point they would just fly away shaking their heads in disgust that any intelligent species does such stupid things.

[Saybel]

Again with the trying-to-prove a negative. Stop it.

Remember carbon fiber thirty years ago and what we were doing with it? You catching on yet . . . ?

The problem with carbon fiber has never been that we thought it was impossible to make but only that it's hard to produce large amounts TO make usable building structures. It's not some kind of god material, it's properties were perfectly within the confines of what we knew already

[Heavens Night]

Lets face it guys. If an extraterrestrial species with the ability to travel the stars decided they wanted earth it's highly unlikely that we have anything that would be able to stop them. How long would it take them to conquer earth?

What makes you think they don't occupy earth already.

You think you would know about it?

Ponder this.

[Dezerte]

That actually will be travelling faster than light. Travelling is the key word as it's just moving from A to B. As long as you don't move with an absolute speed of light or higher - you are good to travel as fast as you can, relatively speaking.

It doesn't make sense to call it FTL when it's in different mediums, like e.g. light traveling slower in water than it does in air. Even less sense when "non-space" is not really a medium in the traditional sense and no distance is actually traversed in "non-space".

[Synros]

Very easily, until they discover that we humans put Pineapple on pizza, at which point they would just fly away shaking their heads in disgust that any intelligent species does such stupid things.

I'm fine with never meeting aliens, if it means that I'm able to eat Hawaiian pizza...

[cubby]

The problem with carbon fiber has never been that we thought it was impossible to make but only that it's hard to produce large amounts TO make usable building structures. It's not some kind of god material, it's properties were perfectly within the confines of what we knew already

You are missing the bigger picture, along with point. Did we know about carbon fiber 100 years ago? Was is just theoretical at that point. Did we take something from theory to reality and overcome some "impossible" hurdles along the way?

You see where I am going with this?

[Saybel]

You are missing the bigger picture, along with point. Did we know about carbon fiber 100 years ago? Was is just theoretical at that point. Did we take something from theory to reality and overcome some "impossible" hurdles along the way?

You see where I am going with this?

I see what you are attempting to do, but carbon fiber, again is not some godly material that expands our limits by hundreds of thousands of times.

Anyway, I don't think this discussion should be continued, I very firmly believe after all the correctly observed predictions of relativity that it is completely correct and the universe on the macroscopic scale is correctly described by relativity. I view your words as pure optimism, it would be nice if we could break out of this little corner of the milky way, but it probably won't happen. If we are invaded by aliens I will gladly bow to my alien overlords and I'm happy to eat my words if relatively is completely scrapped but for now there is a general scientific consensus around the limits of none-exotic particles and that will remain as my worldview on this matter.

[yetgdhfgh]

All they would need to do it EMP the world then find a way to fuck with our food sources and we would be donald ducked!

[cubby]

I see what you are attempting to do, but carbon fiber, again is not some godly material that expands our limits by hundreds of thousands of times.

Anyway, I don't think this discussion should be continued, I very firmly believe after all the correctly observed predictions of relativity that it is completely correct and the universe on the macroscopic scale is correctly described by relativity. I view your words as pure optimism, it would be nice if we could break out of this little corner of the milky way, but it probably won't happen. If we are invaded by aliens I will gladly bow to my alien overlords and I'm happy to eat my words if relatively is completely scrapped but for now there is a general scientific consensus around the limits of none-exotic particles and that will remain as my worldview on this matter.

What I'm attempting to do is point out that civilizations cannot always predict what will be developed and what won't. While I appreciate the label of optimism, the real one should be pragmatic. The limits on what we can do now are not the ultimate limits on what we will be able to do, nor will they ever be.

Love that quote - welcome our overlords. One of the best, ever.

[Post]

there is one realistic scenario in which they would have a reason: they are relatively primitive and have depleted their local resources or fucked up their planet, and in order to survive they create a ship that goes on a one way trip to a planet that they hope can sustain them.

I doubt they would try to pick a fight then TBH.