10man K'J overtuned / not tested?

[BobAwesome]

Which argus isn't. It was announced when we first actually saw anything about tomb of sargeras. It wasn't developed post release as filler content.

I guess we'll see 5-6ish months...

[Deathquoi]

This has been a problem with Flex for a while. I remember when my crew strolled into Heroic HFC in Heroic BRF gear as a 10 man group and got taken to the woodshed on Hellfire Assault. We were so confused. But then we pugged a couple more warm bodies out of group finder and stomped it no problem. The scaling on certain fights has always been off, even going back to 10 man raids in Wrath and Cata. A smaller group is just more difficult to balance for. It's not as simple as tuning 25 man and then cutting numbers by 60%.

[drbatman]

blizz doesnt care about 10 mans

/thread

[BobAwesome]

It is not the main raid. That's just a thought that popped into your little brain, not a fact. If you choose to keep being an idiot and keep saying this, please provide a modicum of evidence where Blizzard says Argus and 7.3's content is an after thought to cover a content drought. I won't hold my breath.

- - - Updated - - -



I guess you'll see. We already know.

It may be a goal they want to reach, but so were other raids and zones in previous expansion (abyssal maw, farahlon, ogre mainland) and given that the Argus zone's aren't even finished while Broken Isles and ToS had been in development and mostly finished well before their exposure to players, yeah I'm going to consider Argus as bonus content, that we're lucky enough to not have cut.

[Raiju]

It may be a goal they want to reach, but so were other raids and zones in previous expansion (abyssal maw, farahlon, ogre mainland) and given that the Argus zone's aren't even finished while Broken Isles and ToS had been in development and mostly finished well before their exposure to players, yeah I'm going to consider Argus as bonus content, that we're lucky enough to not have cut.

Argus is on PTR and the raids have some mechanics available to see already in the DJ. These are not abyssal maw / farahlon levels of development.

Argus already has more going on in the base ptr stage than quel'danas, and it's directly relevant to legions main story rather than a tackon.

[david0925]

No shit. Feels like they scale tank dmg when you get to 30. We wiped for hours last night before cutting to 20. Suddenly we go from never making it close to the dark intermission to almost making the push and dying to the wombo combo that you get if you don't push him fast enough into the dark intermission. On 30 man tanks were just inexplicably getting 1 shot. We had a cocoon up on our Pally tank and he still got 1 shot through it. Took like 9 mil dmg from a felclaw swipe.

sounds like he let SoTR fall off. KJ definitely hits hard but not that hard even during felwipe. 5x debuff is 1.75 times normal damage taken, so unless you're going to tell me your paladin takes 3m normal swings with active mitigation up, he definitely just mismanaged his own active mitigation.

keeping SOTR up is ~50 damage reduction, and combining that with a minor CD of even 20% and that last swing is 3.6m, which is reasonable for a last swing on a 2 second timer.

[BobAwesome]

Projecting

Can't tell if super blizz fanboy or just really new to the game...

Argus is on PTR and the raids have some mechanics available to see already in the DJ. These are not abyssal maw / farahlon levels of development.

Argus already has more going on in the base ptr stage than quel'danas, and it's directly relevant to legions main story rather than a tackon.

There was nothing stopping Blizzard from working on Abyssal Maw and Farahlon later in the games launch either. The only thing different between those and Argus, is Blizzard is actually working on the content this time around rather than jumping ahead to the next expansion and dropping all development on the current stuff. Argus may be relevant to the expansion, but that doesn't mean it was guaranteed content. If it was, it would have been in development far before it was announced at Blizzcon.

[Raiju]

By the same logic icecrown citadel wasn't the main part of wrath of the lich king. They announced argus less than 2 months of the release of legion. Ofcourse it was in development before the expansion launched.

[BiggestNoob]

Wrong.

There it is folks. When confronted with actual evidence and data, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah abilities doing 50% more damage and getting 7 soaks instead of 4 and overlaps being important doesn't matter, if we 10 manned it ranged would never have to move and melee could easily take 2 hits and we'd trivially kill the boss, just like we do with 25.

It's okay buddy, you can buy an AOTC from us.

[BobAwesome]

There it is folks. When confronted with actual evidence and data, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah abilities doing 50% more damage and getting 7 soaks instead of 4 and overlaps being important doesn't matter, if we 10 manned it ranged would never have to move and melee could easily take 2 hits and we'd trivially kill the boss, just like we do with 25.

It's okay buddy, you can buy an AOTC from us.

Wrong. All of it.

[Deleted]

sounds like he let SoTR fall off. KJ definitely hits hard but not that hard even during felwipe. 5x debuff is 1.75 times normal damage taken, so unless you're going to tell me your paladin takes 3m normal swings with active mitigation up, he definitely just mismanaged his own active mitigation.

keeping SOTR up is ~50 damage reduction, and combining that with a minor CD of even 20% and that last swing is 3.6m, which is reasonable for a last swing on a 2 second timer.

It's not 1.75 times the normal damage though, it's 2.75. That's quite a lot more.

[Nikkej]

Lul?

We found it much easier with 10 man, we did bring 3 healers.

[BobAwesome]

Nice job quoting something I didn't even say, snowflake. Before you go back to your safe space...

Tomb of Sargeras isn't the main raid. Can't tell if that stupid.. or... wait, yep, you're that stupid. At least you have the bravery to pretend you know something about Warcraft. It's so precious to see the incapable at least try.

Here that wooshing? That's the point flying right over your head.

Lul?

We found it much easier with 10 man, we did bring 3 healers.

Interesting. What prompted that comp? Were the healers running out of mana when it was just two or just to deal with the raid wide damage better? What were your 5 dps? And was this heroic or normal?

[BiggestNoob]

Wrong. All of it.

30 man: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=238455

Average ~1.5 million per hit.

10 man: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=238455

Average ~1 million per hit.

30 man = 50% more damage from this ability than 10 man

30 man rain: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...23&end=4277707

9 targets

10 man rain: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...0&end=10652889

3 targets

LINEAR SCALING

Add damage done on 30: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...cal&target=115

931.74m damage

Add damage done on 10: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...one&target=151

300.49m damage


None of it was wrong. This thread is pointless because it's been demonstrated and you've been told by plenty of people that it's not overtuned on 10 nor is it "significantly harder." There's no constructive discussion here, and you're dismissing factually true evidence because your guild and you suck ass at this game and can't kill an easy boss.

I'm going to report this thread to mods now so it can be closed as completely useless.

[david0925]

It's not 1.75 times the normal damage though, it's 2.75. That's quite a lot more.

it's 2.75 for sure. I didn't type out my sentence correctly, but my math/assumption are all done with "triple modifier"

[BobAwesome]

<A bunch of useless stats that don't take into account the limited resources smaller groups>

You're still wrong, and you're literally the only person who's making such a huge deal about. It's almost funny, but not quite as it's pretty clear you got some ego and anger issues you need to work out.

[BiggestNoob]

You're still wrong, and you're literally the only person who's making such a huge deal about. It's almost funny, but not quite as it's pretty clear you got some ego and anger issues you need to work out.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=summary

You're playing with some of the worst people in the game and you can't even do heroic. Those players also utterly failed to even get into the first intermission phase on heroic, and the mechanics they were wiping to are objectively harder to deal with in larger groups and result in overlaps that can kill people.

You don't know because you've never done it, and you won't do it until you're 930+ or getting carried. Come back and talk when you actually do some hard content so you have an opinion on this that matters or with some objective information that agrees with you, because nobody else does.

[BobAwesome]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...8&type=summary

You're playing with some of the worst people in the game and you can't even do heroic. Those players also utterly failed to even get into the first intermission phase on heroic, and the mechanics they were wiping to are objectively harder to deal with in larger groups and result in overlaps that can kill people.

You don't know because you've never done it, and you won't do it until you're 930+ or getting carried. Come back and talk when you actually do some hard content so you have an opinion on this that matters or with some objective information that agrees with you, because nobody else does.

The fact that you think a log from a group finder pug means anything just goes to show how utterly delusional you are. You've been an absolute joke, thanks for the laughs.
Infracted. Because even grade A shitheads like Plastkin have feelings, please don't be a meanie.

[Firatha]

The fact that you think a log from a group finder pug means anything just goes to show how utterly delusional you are. You've been an absolute joke, thanks for the laughs.

Says the guy ignoring facts and numbers he prob linked that just to show you have only done the fight once on normal only once there for you have zero idea weather its easier with more or less people as someone who has done it on normal 3 times once with like 28 once with closer to 20 and once with like 12 I can tell you its FAR easier with less people so please stop thinking you know anything.

[Svad1287]

Our guild, 12 ppl, have 3 paladins, and 3 mages, so soaking the big ones, arent really a problem ;-)