When and why exactly did Arthas turn evil?

[shaunika123]

it was when he picked up frostmourne

debate over

the culling of stratholme was necessary albeit a hard decision

[Evaddon]

it was when he picked up frostmourne

debate over

Exactly /10/10/10

[Zulkhan]

I didn't say he didn't? lol.. I literally said he thought he was doing what was right until he put on the helmet, and also, wielded the sword

I mean, after Arthas turned into a Death Knight his 24/7 concern became power and sure as hell he must have believed pursuing greater power was a right thing to do.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I understand why you disagree but his turning point was clearly the culling of stratholme. It was the point of no return for him, deep down he convinced himself that it was the necessary/right thing to do while doing it but after the act you can tell he immensely regretted the act and projected it as hatred/vengeance for Malganis to keep his psyche intact. The reason he marched on to northrend, the reason he chased him across the frozen north although he had ample opportunity and reason to return is his trying to get "payback" for what malganis made him do. While playing the level in the game we are basically just killing undead and fighting scourge but the cutscene/story shows that Arthas burned down a big chunk of the city and had to kill a lot of people before they were actually turned undead which you can see from the piles of dead human looking bodies. He couldn't cope with the fact that Malganis basically forced him to do that, he couldn't think of the greater good and returned even after he rescued muradin and acquired great intel of northrend, he could have returned a hero. it was not the paladin but the royal prideful prince in him that had to square off with malganis but without culling of stratholme I think he could have come to his senses and not fall for the gigantic bait.

As you said past the point of picking of frostmourne he is basically controlled by LK so I'm not going into any of that.

I'd say it became a point of no return when he decided to pursue Mal'ganis rather than secure his homeland. He decided to do this by himself, nobody else did.

[Zulkhan]

it was when he picked up frostmourne

debate over

the culling of stratholme was necessary albeit a hard decision

Exactly /10/10/10

You guys must suffer from some sort of amnesia, as there's plenty of events between the culling of Stratholme and the picking of Frostmourne that blatantly enlightened Arthas' descent to darkness.

[Santti]

You guys must suffer from some sort of amnesia, as there's plenty of events between the culling of Stratholme and the picking of Frostmourne that blatantly enlightened Arthas' descent to darkness.

Yes, I think there was indeed something dark already with him when he had landed in Northrend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYkQfEhVc6E

Notice the conversation between Arthas and his Captain, at the beginning on the video. The Captain might also be affected, as he sounds quite different at the end, than at the beginning. Might also be different a captain (Falric & Marwyn?).

[Evaddon]

I mean, after Arthas turned into a Death Knight his 24/7 concern became power and sure as hell he must have believed pursuing greater power was a right thing to do.

Yes, after getting Frostmourne, and then again after getting the Helmet he fell deeper and deeper into Darkness and became what is known as "evil". But it can me argued was it really Arthas anymore at that point, did he hold onto some control for the scourge not to completely ravage the world?

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You guys must suffer from some sort of amnesia, as there's plenty of events between the culling of Stratholme and the picking of Frostmourne that blatantly enlightened Arthas' descent to darkness.

Again, he did some Bad things that he thought was right? Do you understand that?
You can do wrong, but think you're doing what's best. That's exactly what ARTHAS WAS DOING up until that point, he wasn't evil, he was just wrong. No ones saying what he did and the steps he took were right. But he thought they were.

[shaunika123]

You guys must suffer from some sort of amnesia, as there's plenty of events between the culling of Stratholme and the picking of Frostmourne that blatantly enlightened Arthas' descent to darkness.

the question was "when did he become evil", not when did he make questionable decisions

he was obsessed with killing mal'ganis because it was the only way to avenge his people and keep the rest safe, every decision up until picking up frostmourne was just an "ends justify the means" thing, after frostmourne tho he basically slaughtered his entire people (the very same he tried to protect), turned them undead and ravaged lordaeron

before that he made some questionable things like killing the mercenaries and bruning the ships, but was all for the greater good so no
those are not when he became "evil"

unless we have very different definitions of the word

[Evaddon]

Yes, I think there was indeed something dark already with him when he had landed in Northrend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYkQfEhVc6E

Notice the conversation between Arthas and his Captain, at the beginning on the video. The Captain might also be affected, as he sounds quite different at the end, than at the beginning. Might also be different a captain (Falric & Malwyn?).

Every Human has a little darkness in them

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the question was "when did he become evil", not when did he make questionable decisions

he was obsessed with killing mal'ganis because it was the only way to avenge his people and keep the rest safe, every decision up until picking up frostmourne was just an "ends justify the means" thing, after frostmourne tho he basically slaughtered his entire people (the very same he tried to protect), turned them undead and ravaged lordaeron

before that he made some questionable things like killing the mercenaries and bruning the ships, but was all for the greater good so no
those are not when he became "evil"

unless we have very different definitions of the word

Hopefully he understands that -_-

[Zulkhan]

Yes, after getting Frostmourne, and then again after getting the Helmet he fell deeper and deeper into Darkness and became what is known as "evil". But it can me argued was it really Arthas anymore at that point, did he hold onto some control for the scourge not to completely ravage the world?

Arthas was descending into darkness before getting Frostmourne. And yes, he became hilariously evil after he got his soul stolen but that doesn't mean he was a good person before. Ner'zhul chose Arthas of all people to be his chosen Death Knight exactly because, beneath the noble exterior, Arthas was ruthless, violent and vindictive. All Ner'zhul had to do was to strip that noble exterior away from Arthas and leave the darkness exposed. That's precisely what led Arthas towards his path of damnation.

Again, he did some Bad things that he thought was right? Do you understand that?

It's funny how saying "he thought he was right" makes somehow Arthas a good person. Guess what, someone who manipulates, deceives and betray is definitely evil, especially when this is done for vengeance and not for actual noble reasons.

You can do wrong, but think you're doing what's best. That's exactly what ARTHAS WAS DOING up until that point, he wasn't evil, he was just wrong. No ones saying what he did and the steps he took were right. But he thought they were.

All he did was to sate his own bloodlust and desire of vengeance against Mal'Ganis. He said straight up to Muradin that nothing would have stood between him and his vendetta, not even his old mentor.

the question was "when did he become evil", not when did he make questionable decisions

Yep, it asked when Arthas went "evil", not when he turned into a soulless monster. To which I initially replied with this:

"The road to evil is a journey, not a light switch"

and that idea is supported by Metzen himself, implying that Arthas fell prey of his obsessions and progressively rejected all his morals and virtues to pursue his dark path. In other words, Arthas turned evil way before becoming a literal monster and that's exactly what led him to Frostmourne in the first place.

before that he made some questionable things like killing the mercenaries and bruning the ships, but was all for the greater good so no
those are not when he became "evil"

Nope. Arthas grew paranoid and obsessed after the events of Stratholme and acted based on his emotions alone. He didn't committ "bad things" for the "greater good", he was consumed by vengeance and by the darkest traits of his personality. Ner'zhul knew what Arthas was and what was needed to push him over the edge and be the monster he needed him to be. Arthas hasn't been one of the most ruthless, sadistic and cruel Death Knights ever without a precise reason.

[Deleted]

Arthas was an arrogant brat and borderline psycopath since young age. What happened with Invincible showcases his personality.

That's why Ner'zhul and Mal'ganis choose him in the first place.

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No, it's quite the contrary. The death of Invincible was the reason for him to become a Paladin.

He became Paladin for all the wrong reasons. He considered the Knights of the Silver Hand as a meaning to an end, not a calling to protect those that needed.

[Aquamonkey]

Arthas turned bad before he picked up Frostmourne.

I would presume that many of you know the story of Arthas, the paladin, the Prince of Lordaeron who, as the Scourge started to show itself in his homeland, he fought the good fight. And the harder he sought to stem the tide of death as a result of the Scourge, the more it wore him down. And the more worn down he got, he started to betray his morals, started to betray the tenants that defined him as a paladin. Ultimately, he succumbed to the darkness he was trying to defeat. (BlizzCon2007)

[saintminya]

Arthas had evil inclinations apparent at the very beginning of the WCIII campaign, as thoroughly evidenced by Uther's conversations and frustrations with him. I don't believe he had fully succumbed to his evil inclinations by the time of the Culling of Strat, but that was certainly a dark turning point for him. As others have observed, Arthas' decision to pursue Mal'Ganis to Northrend, instead of making sure the plague was taken care of and his kingdom secured, was his absolute ascent into evil. He was also aware of the existence and awesome potential of Frostmourne by that point, but had not yet encountered it to be taken over by it. He did not pursue Mal'Ganis out of the goodness of his heart, he pursued him due to his lust for power and desire to obtain Frostmourne.

[Larynx]

but was all for the greater good so no those are not when he became "evil"

Is Sargeras evil?

Just because someone believes themselves to be in the right doesn't make them any less evil. The "greater good" is such a nebulous and relative thing that it can't possibly be used as a real justification for an act. Sargeras is doing what he does for the "greater good." Arthas did what he did for the "greater good." Malygos did what he did for the "greater good". Ner'zhul or Garrosh did what they did for the "greater good." What is the greater good? To Sargeras, it's a universe without Void corruption. To Arthas, it's to purge undead and Mal'ganis from Azeroth. To Malygos, it was to protect Azeroth itself from reckless mortals. To Ner'zhul and Garrosh, to safeguard the orc race.

Not everyone is some power hungry, slimy worm like Gul'dan who has no motivation besides his own self interests. Very few villains do, in fiction and in real life.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Is Sargeras evil?

from our point of view.

[Aquamonkey]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Larynx]

from our point of view.

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Sargeras, the Dark Titan? I thought not.

[huth]

the question was "when did he become evil", not when did he make questionable decisions

he was obsessed with killing mal'ganis because it was the only way to avenge his people and keep the rest safe, every decision up until picking up frostmourne was just an "ends justify the means" thing, after frostmourne tho he basically slaughtered his entire people (the very same he tried to protect), turned them undead and ravaged lordaeron

before that he made some questionable things like killing the mercenaries and bruning the ships, but was all for the greater good so no
those are not when he became "evil"

unless we have very different definitions of the word

He was making progressively more questionable decisions on his journey. He didn't suddenly fall from good.

[mizeri]

i think after he was finished with stratholm, he crossed that line and after that murdering just became easy.

[Deleted]

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He became Paladin for all the wrong reasons. He considered the Knights of the Silver Hand as a meaning to an end, not a calling to protect those that needed.

Thats not true. Arthas was helpless when Invincible died, he never wanted to be helpless like that again. So he became a Paladin to protect and help his people.