Jedi, Sith or Grey Code?

[I Push Buttons]

So Darth Bane isn't canon but his rule is...

Darth Bane is canon, they put him in the show.



Same with Thrawn and how they put him in Rebels, making him canon. They can make anything canon when they so choose, but until they do, its not canon.

[Theodarzna]

Sith Code is more applicable and useful, especially since the sort of supernatural powers of the Star Wars universe are not available to us.

[Frontenac]

I'm going to ignore the Grey, because it's apocryphal and non-canon, and just a little silly.

The Sith code is open to, and really, invites abuse. But it's the more honest of the two. It isn't a moral code, it's speaking to a fundamental truth, and in that, it's perfectly fine.

The Jedi code, on the other hand, is both ridiculously naive and also a deliberate lie. It preaches peace and serenity, while training its members to commit deliberate genocide in the furtherance of their beliefs. The whole "there are two Sith, Master and Apprentice" bit? That's been true for a thousand years by the time of the films, and it's only true because the Jedi mercilessly slaughter anyone who claims to be Sith, forcing Sith to operate in secret, never trusting anyone. And not "arrested and put on trial". They see a Sith, and it's straight to "murder that guy/gal/slug in the face" mode.

Darth Bane and his apprentice are the ones who destroyed the Sith Lords, who were already loosing the war they begun because they were fighting each other. It's not the Jedi who wants to destroy the Sith, it's the other way around. A Jedi falls to Dark Side, rallies others to him, the Jedi disagree, the Dark Jedi attack, there is war and it ends with the darksiders fleeing or being destroyed, often by their own. Since Sith are unable to work together because of their philosophy, he decided that there should only be two Sith, a master and his apprentice.

And the Jedi practices were downright evil. And this is totally canon; look at the way Anakin is treated. They almost didn't take him for training, because he had "too much anger in him". Because the Jedi were taking children away from their parents, and raising them to be emotionless. Not in CONTROL of their emotions, to not feel them AT ALL.

They are not very good at it then. Because all the Jedi we see in the movies display all the range of emotions.

And if you think they'd have just let a stupidly powerful 9-year old too-angry-for-the-Jedi walk away, you're not paying attention to the films; they'd have killed him.

Really? When does that happen? I don't remember any Jedi ploting to kill Anakin in The Phantom Menace.

Later, when Anakin falls in love, he has to hide it. Because, to the Jedi, love is as evil as hate. They're equally bad, to the Jedi. That attitude is the only thing that drove Anakin to the Dark Side. Palpatine took advantage of this, but the only reason Anakin was vulnerable to that seduction was the Jedi's abuse of his trust and support.

Love is not evil for the Jedi. However, it is a source of attachement, where the other is almost treated as a possession. That leads to fear of losing that person, to jealousy, to anger which leads to the Dark Side, which is shown to be very, very alluring and addictive. It is because Anakin feared losing Padme that he joined Palpatine, and it is because of jealousy that he kills her. It also helped that Palpatine nurtured his natural arrogance and recklessness.

[Zeta333]

I didn't know there were Grays, is that cannon? I suppose it would make sense.

never was in pre disney, dunno if disney added this trash or not.

- - - Updated - - -

Darth Bane is canon, they put him in the show.



Same with Thrawn and how they put him in Rebels, making him canon. They can make anything canon when they so choose, but until they do, its not canon.

no they made small parts and mostly not the good parts canno, disney wars thrawn isnt even close to pre disney thrawn. Same for bane.

[Rustedsaint]

Sith or grey if they turn out cannonized by Disney, the Jedi just seem so boring

[Mormolyce]

Grey Jedi are generally weird outcasts who've gone a bit off the rails and want to do things like killing the Force. They are not a serene middle ground philosophy.

"Grey Jedi" are non-canon... just typical EU bullshit.
Both the Sith and the Jedi are in the wrong, and they constantly break their own 'code'.

The Jedi attempt to live up to their code, but sometimes fail because they are human (or whatever).

The Sith don't have a code.

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm going to ignore the Grey, because it's apocryphal and non-canon, and just a little silly.

The Sith code is open to, and really, invites abuse. But it's the more honest of the two. It isn't a moral code, it's speaking to a fundamental truth, and in that, it's perfectly fine.

The Jedi code, on the other hand, is both ridiculously naive and also a deliberate lie. It preaches peace and serenity, while training its members to commit deliberate genocide in the furtherance of their beliefs. The whole "there are two Sith, Master and Apprentice" bit? That's been true for a thousand years by the time of the films, and it's only true because the Jedi mercilessly slaughter anyone who claims to be Sith, forcing Sith to operate in secret, never trusting anyone. And not "arrested and put on trial". They see a Sith, and it's straight to "murder that guy/gal/slug in the face" mode.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The reason the Sith follow the rule of 2 and keep hidden is because they got sick of their own infighting. Jedi are also trained as peacekeepers, not as hunters of Sith.

In the Prequels the Jedi didn't even believe the Sith existed anymore and had for hundreds of years. It is why the Sith were so damaging through their Era.

[Mormolyce]

I totally hate Grey Jedi but I think that's what we're getting in episode 8 and I'm already rolling my eyes. It seems like The Last Jedi is a play on the new path.

We'll have to wait and see, Luke may merely be a disaffected light-sider.

A "true" grey Jedi would be someone like Kreia who is adamantly convinced that the Force must be destroyed.

- - - Updated - - -

better than anything shat out by disney.

EU canon had good things in it. And also some garbage.

George Lucas canon had good things in it. And also some garbage. Even if you mentally exclude the prequels there's still like half of Return of the Jedi...

"Disney" canon has good things in it. It's only had two films and IMO both were pretty solid but I'm sure it will turn out some garbage pretty soon.

[TripleZero]

Jedi code isnt so bad. But by cutting off all emotion they make themselves vulnerable to the dark side imo. That's why jedi seem so easy to turn. They dont deal with their emotions, instead they bury them and then it just takes one catastrophy in their lifes to make it all boil over and in comes the dark side.

Just my own interpretation anyway.

[Orange Joe]

We'll have to wait and see, Luke may merely be a disaffected light-sider.

A "true" grey Jedi would be someone like Kreia who is adamantly convinced that the Force must be destroyed.

- - - Updated - - -



EU canon had good things in it. And also some garbage.

George Lucas canon had good things in it. And also some garbage. Even if you mentally exclude the prequels there's still like half of Return of the Jedi...

"Disney" canon has good things in it. It's only had two films and IMO both were pretty solid but I'm sure it will turn out some garbage pretty soon.

There are some books out under disney canon too.

Actually many more than I thought.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_books

[Mormolyce]

Shit wait is Revan considered non-cannon now that the EU got buried?

I'm fairly confident that Revan will be re-canonised like for example Thrawn was via the Rebels cartoon. But at this point he's still in the "question mark" category.

Revan isn't cannon not 100% this is either, but the concept of both seems to be adopted, The Clone Wars is cannon though.

IIRC he was going to appear in an episode of Clone Wars but got cut - so he's probably hovering on the borderlands of canon.

[Zeta333]

I'm fairly confident that Revan will be re-canonised like for example Thrawn was via the Rebels cartoon. But at this point he's still in the "question mark" category.



IIRC he was going to appear in an episode of Clone Wars but got cut - so he's probably hovering on the borderlands of canon.

thrawn in name was, thrawn from pre disney wasnt, different person, same name.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I don't know. I'm personally ok with the starting from scratch. I mean we get the chance to get a whole new star wars universe. If you're a fan of star wars how can that be bad.


I mean as far as EU goes. I still enjoy rereading many of the books. Just picked up the rogue squadron series on kindle about a month ago. Just because it isn't canon anymore doesn't mean I can't enjoy it still.

It's not so much that they're discarding small portions of a story though which is what gets me but rather an era which has an entire franchise built around it with KotoR 1, 2 and even ToR to a certain extent. What I like about this era is that it's finely detailed in events, characters as well as the Orders and I have a hard time trying to believe that they can honestly be improved upon. Maybe it can be but I feel there's far more at stake to try so why fix what isn't broken.

It may be a personal taste but I enjoyed being a part of the old republic because you're connecting with the history of what makes Star Wars, well, Star Wars especially since it was treated as canon for nearly a decade. I can still have fun, sure, but it loses that connection and ultimately gives me this weird feeling wondering why I should care about these events and characters if they're no longer representative of the official story.

[Gamdwelf]

Grey jedi is like being a vegetarian who eats meat, you aren't a jedi at that point.

[Selah]

I'd create a middle ground that would hunt both Jedi and Sith alike and decimate their terrible ideologies.

[Ianus]

Going by prequels I wouldn't really call him grey. He still followed the moral code of the Jedi. He just didn't really follow the council.

you aren't jedi if you aren't acknowledged by council you could have their morals but you are gray jedi..

[Triggered Fridgekin]

you aren't jedi if you aren't acknowledged by council you could have their morals but you are gray jedi..

But they do acknowledge him as one and they as his council. If he weren't recognized as a Jedi Master he certainly wouldn't have a Padawan nor would he have any business with the council and vice verse.

He just doesn't agree with them from time to time.

[Ianus]

Jedi code isnt so bad. But by cutting off all emotion they make themselves vulnerable to the dark side imo. That's why jedi seem so easy to turn. They dont deal with their emotions, instead they bury them and then it just takes one catastrophy in their lifes to make it all boil over and in comes the dark side.

Just my own interpretation anyway.

this

thats why there a books in movie trailer cause original teachings of jed'ai were twisted by both sith and jedi

- - - Updated - - -

But they do acknowledge him as one and they as his council. If he weren't recognized as a Jedi Master he certainly wouldn't have a Padawan either.

no he was just treated as outside associate in movie he was kicked out of the council cause he didnt listen their orders.. there were many gray jedi's that helped jedi order in mandalorian wars even though they were expelled because emotional relantionships

[Triggered Fridgekin]

no he was just treated as outside associate in movie he was kicked out of the council cause he didnt listen their orders

So an "outside associate" was allowed to train a Padawan and still be referred to as a Master Jedi by the council? I'm fairly certain he wasn't kicked out either but rather simply chose not to sit on the council because of his unorthodox behavior. They even allowed Anakin to be trained for the sake of fulfilling his wish when he died.

That's an awful lot of responsibility, recognition and respect for someone they would likely otherwise show none of if he were truly Grey since he would have access to the Dark Side especially when they initially refused Anakin to be trained because he was one angry boy full of fear.

[Ianus]

So an "outside associate" was allowed to train a Padawan and still be referred to as a Master Jedi by the council? I'm fairly certain he wasn't kicked out either but rather simply chose not to sit on the council because of his unorthodox behavior. They even allowed Anakin to be trained for the sake of fulfilling his wish when he died.

That's an awful lot of responsibility, recognition and respect for someone they would likely otherwise show none of if he were truly Grey since he would have access to the Dark Side.

didnt say they couldnt have been respected or jedi master but he wasnt in council because he didnt follow jedi order rules or dogma to the letter thats why he is gray jedi cause he accepted he had emotions and left the order even though he followed their morals