Why can't casters cast while moving?

[Theoris]

Kil'jaeden's Cunning, never forget.

[Deleted]

We are talking about movement phases. Most casters during movement fall flat when it comes to DPS, Shadow is no exception. The difference here is that some of you say Shadow damage is literally zero during movement and that is just wrong, plain and simple.

Not really, we are talking about the overall damage loss due to movement, not the fairly irrelevant point of how much damage can you do while jogging, since no encounter requires you to constantly run around.

I already told you which casters suffer from movement much worse than Shadow Priests.

They suffer worse *while moving* however they can more or less pick right up after they're done, while the SP's damage may be screwed up for the next 30+ seconds.
Dispersion can help somewhat depending on where in your phase you need to move, but then you've used up your defensive cooldown (not that it is that great to begin with).

So while shadow priests have the potential to suffer very little from movement (if it is happening at a convenient time or you can use dispersion to keep the phase up) but they also can suffer a lot more if their flow gets screwed up.

Tbh this "solution" sounds pretty good. Filler spells (one per caster) castable while moving.

Won't help shadow priests much though as their issue is not the damage *while moving* but rather the screwed up damage phases afterwards, unless the filler spell keeps the insanity up (in which case it would probably be abused).

[Deleted]

True, yet Method had a Destro Warlock when they killed KJ, and that's on the low end of mobility for casters. Even so they still have 2 spells that can be cast on the move. The only caster that I'd say is truly way too immobile is Demo lock. All other specs have at least one useful spell that can be cast while moving. You also had SPs in that kill despite the fight requiring heavy movement.

Completely untrue, Elemental shaman has nothing at all to cast on the move, except a dot to refresh under specific circumstances only, and sometimes a proc that will make a spell instant. It's also worth noting that elementals have been completely absent from all world firsts in this expansion so far.

[Matchu]

The difference here is that some of you say Shadow damage is literally zero during movement and that is just wrong, plain and simple.

No, what people actually said:

This restriction becomes especially noticeable for Shadow Priests, where if you have to move more than a little bit, your DPS just drops like a rock. On top of having bad mobility, you don't have much in the way of instant cast spells, so if you have to move for more than 1-2 seconds, you're fucked, due to how Voidform works.

Which is entirely true. No one says DOTs don't do anything, but people object to your saying that Shadow is a 'mobile caster' because it's patently false.

Shadow Priests have some issues (ST damage) but movement is none of them.

Then I'd say unfortunately you don't understand the current state of Shadow. Voidform isn't an ability you just pop in and out of willy-nilly, it's one you're supposed to keep up as long as possible and movement punishes that heavily. As many other people in this thread have tried to explain to you.

[l33t]

Because there'd never be a reason to play melee if that was possible.

That's why nobody plays melee in GW2, right?

[Nero Stormchester]

People would still play melee because then they dont have to worry about 2/3 more of the mechanics that a ranged has to deal with this expansion.

Lol 1 raid . Literally 1 raid , NH, where ranged had to deal with more mechanics. Before that it's always been on melde to deal with mechanics , for like expansions at a time. Now ranged dealt with it for 1(!) raid, and can't stop crying .

- - - Updated - - -

That's why nobody plays melee in GW2, right?

GW2 combat system is superior to WoW, let's be honest. Both PvP and PvE feel more engaging and exciting , active mitigation plays a huge role in that , as does the fast pace of the combat in general.

[Tiwack]

An illusion!

Cause they can't balance their game for shits.

They tune the game around rotating classes into their spot in the sun being fotm. Customers are guinea pigs to them. What is amazing in pvp or pve changes with each "balance patch".

Melee will forever be kited to death or shit on you for even attempting it, provided their kit allows them the option.

[Nyel]

Then I'd say unfortunately you don't understand the current state of Shadow. Voidform isn't an ability you just pop in and out of willy-nilly, it's one you're supposed to keep up as long as possible and movement punishes that heavily. As many other people in this thread have tried to explain to you.

I already said I don't need explanation for a spec I'm usually playing as well. It's high class whine to brag about poor Shadow Priests when other casters are in a worse spot when it comes to movement. And as I already explained, there is no boss where you can't stop for 1 second and channel Mind Flay or cast Mind Blast. So no real issues here for Shadow Priests at all. Try to cast a 2 second Chaos Bolt when you need to move - well, you just don't.

[Echoherb]

Considering that's extremely easy to do, I'd say that casters not being able to move and cast is just a relic of the past.

Somebody didn't play a caster during MoP

[Deleted]

As for casters moving, honestly I think the MoP model where most specs could cast basic spells (Incinerate, Lightning Bolt, etc.) on the move was fine. But more than that would just hurt melee too much comparatively.

I guess casters would be just fine with your suggestion. Have the basic filler spell be castable on the move, like warlock and ele shaman had in MoP, possibly implement a talent from the mobility row to establish that, and this would be perfect. One reason why my main character is now fire specced mage is the largest amount of instant spells in this spec and thus most mobility.

Honestly, melee usually don't have to move that much, and they have so many gap closers, their range disadvantage is almost not existant. Interrupting a hard cast spell is much worse for a caster, especially if many of these spells only do mediocre damage.

[Matchu]

I already said I don't need explanation for a spec I'm usually playing as well. It's high class whine to brag about poor Shadow Priests when other casters are in a worse spot when it comes to movement. And as I already explained, there is no boss where you can't stop for 1 second and channel Mind Flay or cast Mind Blast. So no real issues here for Shadow Priests at all. Try to cast a 2 second Chaos Bolt when you need to move - well, you just don't.

Sorry, but playing a spec doesn't mean you suddenly grasp every nuance of it. I presume you didn't pick SPriest up then instantly raid for Method?

Highlighting an earlier post, you said that you can get back into VF very quickly. This is entirely true, but totally missing the point of the class. VF isn't something you pop in and out of with no consequence, it's something you maintain as high as possible. So yes, not being able to cast Chaos Bolt sucks. But SPriest doesn't just have to deal with the 2 seconds of movement based dps loss, it then has to deal with the next 30-60 seconds of trying to get back to high VF stacks.

That's why I'm critical of your opinions, because you're talking about dps loss from movement in the wrong terms. If you don't cast chaos bolt because you have to move, you just cast it when you stop. If you get 35-40 VF stacks then movement screws you out of VF, you're looking at a long road before you're back to 40 again and able to do DPS. You can say "well channel the boss" but a number of the abilities ranged have to deal with, like say Krosus orb, require running away from the boss while watching your VF slowly dwindle away.

[Deleted]

The immobility of Ranged is archaic especially witht he high uptime and mobility most melee have.
But the simple reason is if all ranged are very mobile the number of raidspots for melee is very limited. Raids prefer to fill them with ranged over melee as their more flexible to use.

Atleast this is what happened in Mist of Pandaria. Generally melee have to do less mechanics and when their are specific mechanics for melee they either strugle and skilled ranged players could just go in melee range to do the melee job.

The only retarded bit is Beastmasters are fully mobily without any penalty. Well their not good at cleave / AoE but better ST than Marksman.
The second most mobile dps specs are Marksman and Firemage.

So in order to make ranged more mobile dps:
- Moving during cast 50% movement speed reduction?
- Raid / class utility mechanics that prevent Ranged specs being able to do Melee job just as well.

[Nyel]

Sorry, but playing a spec doesn't mean you suddenly grasp every nuance of it. I presume you didn't pick SPriest up then instantly raid for Method?

Highlighting an earlier post, you said that you can get back into VF very quickly. This is entirely true, but totally missing the point of the class. VF isn't something you pop in and out of with no consequence, it's something you maintain as high as possible. So yes, not being able to cast Chaos Bolt sucks. But SPriest doesn't just have to deal with the 2 seconds of movement based dps loss, it then has to deal with the next 30-60 seconds of trying to get back to high VF stacks.

That's why I'm critical of your opinions, because you're talking about dps loss from movement in the wrong terms. If you don't cast chaos bolt because you have to move, you just cast it when you stop. If you get 35-40 VF stacks then movement screws you out of VF, you're looking at a long road before you're back to 40 again and able to do DPS. You can say "well channel the boss" but a number of the abilities ranged have to deal with, like say Krosus orb, require running away from the boss while watching your VF slowly dwindle away.

And all of this problems are exclusive to Shadow Priests? No, they're not. And thanks again, I'm aware of how to play Shadow Priest. Shadow Priest is parsing pretty good in ToS on every difficulty. There are fights where the spec can shine and fights where the spec has issues - like every other spec. Why exactly should it be different for SP? Yes, you drop out of your 40 or 50 stack Voidform when you need to move and it takes some time to get back there, so what? SP is doing fine in raids at the moment. Movement has never been one of the reasons when SP struggled in this expansion - that's my point.

[Kralljin]

Lol 1 raid . Literally 1 raid , NH, where ranged had to deal with more mechanics. Before that it's always been on melde to deal with mechanics , for like expansions at a time. Now ranged dealt with it for 1(!) raid, and can't stop crying .

That is just bogus.

Melees have had less mechanics to deal with since Late Wotlk, the difference was that the overall encounter made a lot of Ranged neccessary to deal with certain mechanics.

In Nighthold they simply went overboard with mechanics that couldn't touch melees and there weren't any mechanics that required a lot of Ranged dps to deal with.

[Pull My Finger]

"Ranged classes" shouldn't even be in the game. It's the most ridiculous concept. Casters should be melee as well.

[Jazzhands]

"Ranged classes" shouldn't even be in the game. It's the most ridiculous concept. Casters should be melee as well.

You want all spells/ranged abilities to have a 5 yard range?

[Pull My Finger]

You want all spells/ranged abilities to have a 5 yard range?

Yeah, kind of. Or perhaps 15. Casters should fight melee over 50% of time. The whole idea of a dress-wearing guy who somehow is an adventurer, but never has anyone getting in striking distance EVER is silly.

I'd prefer it if casters were guys who wear lighter protection and aren't as strong or technical with weapons as "typical" melee classes, but make up for it by equalizing it with magical powers. Kinda like the Witcher or so. Imbuing weapons with elements, porting in and out, using force fields to push opponents back/off balance, making fire blow up under people's feet, having a fiery or stony grip, stuff like that. They could use magical tricks to temporarily fall back and hurl a thunderbolt while they're at range. But this whole "oh, I wear a dress and fight without fighting" thing just seems so silly to me.

[A dot Ham]

It's a tradeoff for being able to stand wherever you want within a 30-40 yard radius of whatever you're attacking, as opposed to a melee who has to stick close to the target at all times.

Melee... who has 2-3 times many ways to stay in range, than ranged to stay out range.

Also when was the last time a melee player got "locked out of melee abilities" for a given time. The game has so moved beyond traditional archetypes its not even funny the one thing that has remained is the bullshit melee vs caster dilemma.

This ancient way of designing classes only works when you have vanilla like classes.

Mages who are glass cannons. Melee that are tankier and have tools vs other melee, and you bring another caster to battle an enemy caster. Or you close that gap... and break the cannon.

I mean seriously what is it with melee players and being so totally fucking dishonest in regards to their strengths and weaknesses. Melee itself has a what 8 yard range... RANGE!

Give me any melee class and I can show you just how many RANGED abilities you have been given over the years, gap closers, and other slows, roots, stuns, etc.

[Jujudrood]

In the strictest of D&D terms, spells with somatic components require very precise movements to complete, so even a slight movement or interruption could potentially fail the spell.
My guess is that's what they were going for, where a mage cooking up a pyroblast must stand still to complete the incantation.
Kinda like how interrupts interrupt the spell by using force (kick) or mind-altering means (mind freeze, I think is what DKs have?), movement acts as a self-interrupt due to now using your body for movement as opposed to focusing on the spell itself.
The feet, while not my favorite, are a nice to have on my mage because I get those free move-while-castings plus a few charges of the icy floes (i think) that lets you cast while moving.
Makes me feel mobile instead of a tree rooted to the ground

[kendro1200]

Because they tried it during MoP and it was a balancing nightmare.

It wasn't but people wanted to claim it was. MoP balance issues were directly tied to the completely overpowered trinkets that were released on the last two raid tiers.
Ultimately moving while casting interferes with Blizzard's "class fantasy" idea for casters. There is absolutely no reason for it to be a problem with class balance. It also makes it harder to make difficult raid mechanics that aren't too punishing for those with high latency. So casting while moving falls into the same "problem" category as open world flight: Something Blizzard wants to avoid at all costs because they see it as something they don't want to struggle working with.