[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[lawow74]

Oh yes, the old ARR Beast Tribe dailies. I'm glad I did those at 60 so I could just run past everything and ignore the mobs I didn't need to kill. I'm sure they were even more fun when everyone was doing them and you'd get a bunch of people camped on the spawn for the FATE instead of helping clear FATEs to try and speed up the process, and anyone who didn't camp got screwed out of it by everyone who was. I saw a person or two camping spawns while I was farming after Allied Seals, even. Not that I blame them, but it's a shitty design decision, just like putting those tiresome hoop-jump steps in the other dailies is a shitty design decision.

I am not immersed by a task I have done literally hundreds of times. Expedite the bullshit so I can be done.

[Granyala]

I don't mess with alts either. I really want to level NIN/DRG and maybe RDM, but I just can't bring myself to do PotD, or sit in queues all day since I have fairly limited playtime.

Yeah, leveling DPS is best done with a tanking buddy

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Oh yes, the old ARR Beast Tribe dailies. I'm glad I did those at 60 so I could just run past everything and ignore the mobs I didn't need to kill.

Most annoying ones were the "transport crap while not aggroing shit".
Dear God.... ended up doing those with a friend in turns, so we could keep the mobs of each others backs.

[Kazgrel]

I agree that having split retainers and needing to go trough menus to access bank etc is annoying.

As for the item exchange, I never understood why my character isn't smart enough to put the right item into the box.
Oh well, she will probably figure it out after she learned how to friggin EAT while SITTING.

I'm not sure what's worse: Characters not able to eat while sitting, or that I didn't even notice this in all these years.

I'm going to go with the fact that each race/gender combo has it's own /sit, some of which have both hands on the ground or such, so perhaps that is why. I agree with your sentiment on the matter, though...are our WoL primal slayer avatars really THAT dumb?

[Granyala]

I'm not sure what's worse: Characters not able to eat while sitting, or that I didn't even notice this in all these years.

I'm going to go with the fact that each race/gender combo has it's own /sit, some of which have both hands on the ground or such, so perhaps that is why. I agree with your sentiment on the matter, though...are our WoL primal slayer avatars really THAT dumb?

There is a LOT you cannot do while sitting, not everything has animations (eg looking through the relic lenses etc).

Probably a conscious design decision. Just irritating when you are used to it from WoW, just how the magnet chairs are often annoying b/c I want to sit slightly differently.

[lawow74]

That was one of the big shocks for me coming to FF and seeing the HW Beast Tribe dailies.

Dailies? For LEVELLING?? THAT AREN'T DESIGNED TO BE FULL OF STUPID SHIT IN THE WAY OF GETTING TO AND FROM YOUR OBJECTIVE??? o.O

Cos anyone who did dailies in WoW knows exactly what THOSE tended to be like. 'Okay, gotta go here and do...dammit, dismounted. Sigh, kill this mob, remount, okay, back to--DAMMIT! Die you stupid worthless mob! Right! Back on my mount and we'll--AAAAH FUCKING SHIT!' etc. etc. etc.

And God help you if you wanted shit from them for alts. Shudder...Molten Front flashbacks... >.<

[Faroth]

Keyword here: occasional. I get really damn sick of having to do this over and over for daily quests. Just like I hate having to retype a damn emote over and over and keep having to skip cutscenes of me doing some damn dance emote. Cutscene skip should apply to dailies, and I should be able to just Interact instead of sitting there going 'dismount, target, Enter, Esc, Interact' again. And again. And again. AND AGAIN!

And I am NOT exaggerating. Doing that seven times to finish some dailies is really fucking tiresome.

I kept doing beat tribe dailies in HW to level SAM during early access and also for PLD....
You only dance for 3 vanu vanu in one quest.
You dance before the totem in the other.

It's not 7 times a day. :P
Normally you don't get those two on the same day either, but it can happen.

This doesn't completely alleviate it, and you may already be doing it, but in case you aren't:
You can put the dance on a hotkey so at least it's just a click, not a type.
or
You can type it once then ctrl+up, Enter to say the last thing you said again (or do the last emote you did in this case). It helps a *little* to speed it up.

I do wish daily quest cutscenes had a "skip previously viewed" option, though.

[lawow74]

It's not 7 times a day. :P

It is when you get Electric Gunduloo and Dance Commander. 3 times to scare off the Vundu, 4 times to demonstrate for the youths. I've had that particular combo at least 3 times in the last 30 days.

3+4=7. See? Math is not that hard.

[Faroth]

It is when you get Electric Gunduloo and Dance Commander. 3 times to scare off the Vundu, 4 times to demonstrate for the youths. I've had that particular combo at least 3 times in the last 30 days.

3+4=7. See? Math is not that hard.

I forgot about the youths! Though I do prefer the 4 youths over the 3 enemy ones to scare off two and fight one. For the longest time I'd lose where one of them was. I don't think I've gotten that one since Stormblood, though.

Still, 3 times in the last 30 days? That's..... c'mon. That's not exactly a constant occurrence and you're specifically ONLY talking about daily quests. Your original post made it sound like it's constantly used through the majority of the game. MSQ and side quests combined + all dailies, it's still extremely infrequent.

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The only issue I draw from the statement was the fact that "having to do the same method" to re-level an alt is ok in one game, but not another. That's no different in FF14. You have to run the same exact dungeons, the same exact PotD, the same exact PVP maps, the same Levequests, etc. that you've done countless times before to level up a new job.

FFXIV doesn't require you to replay the MSQ 15 times per expansion.
You have to play through all the zones on each alt in WoW, essentially doing the "MSQ" equivalent on every class. The only change is what order you go to the zones. Unless I missed something when playing Legion that would have allowed me to not do any zone quests at all.

[lawow74]

And I'm not saying they have to remove all superfluous interaction. Just whenever it's a daily task, something that people are going to repeat over and over and over and over. Streamline the shit. Don't make us play hunt and find for a fucking daily objective, mark it clearly on the map. Don't make us endure stupid cutscenes over and over, let us skip them. Let us straight-up mash interact to finish turn-ins.

And I want to murder that one fucking Vanu with the fishing pole when I have to wait for him to put it down so I can talk, click through his dialogue, get my reward, then wait for him to get his pole out again so I can REPEAT WHAT I JUST FUCKING DID FOR ANOTHER TURN-IN! AAAH HURRY UP YOU STUPID FUCKING BIRD! >.<;;

I really want some new dailies. You can tell, can't you?

[Kazgrel]

Lol, the Vanu guy with the fishing pole always made me facepalm any time I had to turn stuff in for him.

Unrelated note, I should buy lottery tickets this week:

Logged on this morning and did Zhloe crafting turn ins for scrips. Used said scrips to buy grade 4 control materia for the last 3 overmelds I had left on my crafting set. Each meld had a 6% chance to stick, so I went ahead and dropped 1k scrips to pick up 40 of those materia, figuring I would probably have to buy even more.

5 materia later, all 3 items were done. I sat at my PC speechless.

"Well, shit. Wonder what these things sell for."

Lowest price: 75k a pop

Now I get to go out and gather aethersand to get started on crafting some new shiny 320 gear. I had been somewhat smart and stocked up on stuff like Chromite Ore, Palladium Ore, etc., before yellow scrips were a thing, so that I could have the nodes found/flagged for collectible gathering when it became available.

[Ragnarocket]

I can't agree however that FF14 alt leveling having much more options. You either have to use PotD for the 200th time or run the same dungeons for the 200th time. If I never have to do another FATE or Leve (there's a reason SB doesn't have any Levequests in it at all for battle jobs) again I will be happy.

I think the difference for me is that while yes you have to run similar things (PotD, Dungeons, Trials, etc.) at least with FF14 you have some variety in what you do. You can do the FATEs, Beast Quests, etc. and all of that stuff and that is much more than WoW has. But even the Dungeons give you more variety (not always a good thing I'll admit). If I run the roulette in order to get my EXP bonus for the day as a level 68 Red Mage I have a TON of dungeons that it can pull from. I could get anything from Sastasha to Doma Castle. I admit that Legion has fixed this problem in some ways with their level sync system but you are still restricted to the basic leveling dungeons from Legion if you want to level something like my Druid from 104-105. If I ran a level 80 dungeon as a level 104 then I'd get nothing.

POTD I don't have a defense for. After doing it like 150 times I appreciate the efficiency but it's hard to be excited necessarily to go back in there at any point.

[Granyala]

That was one of the big shocks for me coming to FF and seeing the HW Beast Tribe dailies.

Dailies? For LEVELLING?? THAT AREN'T DESIGNED TO BE FULL OF STUPID SHIT IN THE WAY OF GETTING TO AND FROM YOUR OBJECTIVE??? o.O

Cos anyone who did dailies in WoW knows exactly what THOSE tended to be like. 'Okay, gotta go here and do...dammit, dismounted. Sigh, kill this mob, remount, okay, back to--DAMMIT! Die you stupid worthless mob! Right! Back on my mount and we'll--AAAAH FUCKING SHIT!' etc. etc. etc.

And God help you if you wanted shit from them for alts. Shudder...Molten Front flashbacks... >.<

In FF mobs of equal level like to put gravity on you when you run by mounted. It's essentially the same thing.

Only that in FF mobs follow you for a tiny fraction of the time compared to WoW where they run across half the zone. Also general mob density is FAR lower and you can ride behind their backs w/o aggroing.

All in all: FF-XIV world is much more enjoyable compared to WoWs crammed landscape.

[lawow74]

I've had far fewer experiences getting smacked with Heavy than I ever did getting dismounted again and again in WoW. It's not near the aggravation in this game. Esp. if you can cleanse it off and Sprint away.

On an unrelated note, I'll hit 70 on BTN and MIN today. Got my first Gazelleskin Map, sold it for about 160k.

[Ragnarocket]

I've had far fewer experiences getting smacked with Heavy than I ever did getting dismounted again and again in WoW. It's not near the aggravation in this game. Esp. if you can cleanse it off and Sprint away.

On an unrelated note, I'll hit 70 on BTN and MIN today. Got my first Gazelleskin Map, sold it for about 160k.

Tempered Will now cleanses Heavy. As a Paladin if I see a 20 second Heavy I'll just get off my mount, TW, and Sprint away. :P

[Sorrior]

I'd wager it originally existed because, like with many Final Fantasy & RPG games, they thought they'd utilize it eventually. You'd want ice resist for Shiva, fire resist for Ifrit, etc, but in practice, it would be a pain having to swap back and forth depending on what you're doing that day. Not quite as bad as having full resist gear sets, but a pain none the less.

Why it still exists............I dunno... tradition? XD

I heard in 1.0 element resistances were a thing so another holdover. One wonders what yoshi could do with making a game from SCRATCH mmo wise

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Better question.... who is buying them on the market place? I've seen them selling higher than other stat materia at times

I recall using them for the relic quest to purchase sands

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From what I recall, I don't think Blade and Soul had escalating combo attacks? I do recall the Blademaster being able to launch people into the air and follow it up, but thats the only one that springs to mind. I could be wrong though, I never got far into Blade and Soul.

I chose Ryu deliberately because he has a very simple combo. Medium Punch -> Heavy Punch -> Heavy Kick. Just three buttons and something that most players will be able to perform with minimal practice. The combo itself deals modest damage for how easy it is to execute and unlike some of the more advanced combos it doesn't leave you vulnrable to huge counter attacks if you mess it up.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, he has much harder to pull off combos, most of which end using his Super attack and can remove as much as 45% of your opponents health bar without giving them the chance to fight back until the animation is over. I won't go into detail here, since it'll probably just confuse people who don't play Fighting games. Very importantly, there is a direct curve between "Can perform a very easy combo and get results" players and "Can flawlessly execute massive damage combos". Players who start off with only the easy combo will gradually be able to add more and better combos to their repatoir as they improve.

This has a direct comparison to FF14, the 1-2-3 combos in are simple to execute and will get you solid results. Which is more or less the extent of the learning curve. The are no real ways for players to grow beyond that by design. This is the main source of people claiming the role is boring, you can master it to a competant level in an afternoon. Considering that the three tanks in game all play very similarly now, you've learned not only one, but three jobs in a matter of hours. If you're like me you probably put your attacks on the same keys for all three jobs anyway, so the play feels identical right from the word go.

Rather than jump right in to TERA or BnS style combat, I think you could get a similar system to work with a hotkey MMO with some creativity. For example, right now in FF14 tanks have two stances, a Tanking one and a DPS one. I would change that to a Mitigation Stance and a Threat Stance. Mitigation stance is where you would take low damage, deal extremely high damage, but each of your attacks would lower your threat. Threat Stance is where you would take high damage, deal high damage and would generate all your threat.

The goal would be to create a dynamic where your total threat is used as a means to create a mastery curve. Spend too much time in Mitigation Stance, and you lose aggro. Spend too much time in Threat Stance and you go splat. As a player, you'd want to build up as much threat as you safely could, before swapping to Mitigation Stance and dumping as much damage as you can while still holding aggro. It solves the mastery curve issues, giving the player ample room to grow and experiment, while also forcing them to balance out their own damage mitigation, their threat generation and their damage output.

Honestly I feel like you are describing a bit how I would make a tank based off a dancer/physical fighter archetype. Use blocks to counter/parry blows(actually see the pug removed counterattack style skill)

So say I block right I then get to use a stronger attack in reaction. Various blocks and attacks when if done right looks like a dance/kata (so maybe a stacking parry gauge and you get a special for using it) very high risk for very high reward basically. Oh and like drk no stance dancing not like others instead it is all tied into your counter attacks/fighting abilities. Have both dps specials and defensive ones that consume a bar of some kind

[Super Kami Dende]

One of my main gripes with this game. What fucking moron thought that dying only returning you to your Home Point was a good idea for Death in this game. Home Point should be where you like to Travel to. Having to rebind home point to every new Aetheryte makes it not a fucking home point it makes it a Check Point. The worst part is if you manage to die somehow before you find an Aetheryte in a new Zone you literally have to respawn in a previous Zone.

[Sorrior]

I think a lot of people just don't understand how each job 'fits'. SAM, for instance, is criticised for high DPS despite that being the only thing it brings to the table due to a severe lack of utility beyond a slashing debuff that may not be useful at all for anyone other than the SAM depending on the group makeup.

Plus SAM was added purely because so many people were clamouring for a melee DPS that wielded a sword. Myself included.

Problem is I think that too many get obsessed with dps numbers and think dps means you are great while forgetting to dodge. Think the saying is a dead dps does no dps and many forget that or group synergy all about THEIR epeen.

See this with tanks too. Hell if I was designing it tanks wouldn't be tasked with high dps needs (which is mostly a player thing) outside of say maybe one designed around a high risk high reward playstyle. But so few seem to see it as a group synergy thing and instead see single bits and focus on that instead of the whole (such as a shitty dps maybe being great at dodging sp if a smn or rdm bring to rez while other dps are so high who cares)

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While adventuring in Bardam's Mettle, I managed to find these cool holoscreens.

Spoiler: 

I really feel like having job quests to explain these would have been preeetty nice.

HM I so sense a hm...and now hope for a magical wizard of Oz controlling the traps abd tests type shit

[Katchii]

I kept doing beat tribe dailies in HW to level SAM during early access and also for PLD....
You only dance for 3 vanu vanu in one quest.
You dance before the totem in the other.

It's not 7 times a day. :P
Normally you don't get those two on the same day either, but it can happen.

This doesn't completely alleviate it, and you may already be doing it, but in case you aren't:
You can put the dance on a hotkey so at least it's just a click, not a type.
or
You can type it once then ctrl+up, Enter to say the last thing you said again (or do the last emote you did in this case). It helps a *little* to speed it up.

I do wish daily quest cutscenes had a "skip previously viewed" option, though.

The HW beast tribes were incredibly efficient for leveling getting up to 15-30% of a level for doing all of them (Vanu and Gnath) from 50-60, and I used them as part of my routine to level up every job (rotated through Rouletes, PotD, FATEs and Beast Tribes...not every day but mixed it up).

I have a love/hate relationship with the ones where you get cutscenes. Typically those are the easiest and shortest ones...but having to skip cutscene 2-5 times for the quest is really stupid and tedious.

I am looking forward to having a beast tribe in SB introduced. I hate waiting in queues with not much else (if anything) to do as it feels kind of like wasted time, so the beast tribe quests were great because I could log in and queue up as a DPS and then run off to do my dailies while the queue ticked and then hop in the dungeon whenever the queue popped. I don't care about crafting except to have as a means to repair in the field, and gathering is far too boring for me to ever think about it as something to spend my time on....the only reason I'd ever level my gatherers is simply to have them leveled. Materials gathering and crafting have never been my thing as it feel like more of a chore to me when compared to the battle content.

[Wrecktangle]

FFXIV doesn't require you to replay the MSQ 15 times per expansion.
You have to play through all the zones on each alt in WoW, essentially doing the "MSQ" equivalent on every class. The only change is what order you go to the zones. Unless I missed something when playing Legion that would have allowed me to not do any zone quests at all.

That's both a detriment and a positive in the same sentence though. There are numerous times I wish I could rather than sitting in queues TBH. I've seen others echo this sentiment as well. That said, it's still not a good idea lol.

In WoW if you're leveling from 1, you have quite a few zones you can go through to differ your experience. As you get into the expac content you're filtered into a lot of the same zones though. They'd do well to utilize their world level sync tech a bit more, but I almost suspect it's too late to use it in the context it'd be best used for IMO of course.

Either way I'm not sure you picked up the point of my post. It wasn't that WoW's is good. It's that they're both bad.

I think the difference for me is that while yes you have to run similar things (PotD, Dungeons, Trials, etc.) at least with FF14 you have some variety in what you do. You can do the FATEs, Beast Quests, etc. and all of that stuff and that is much more than WoW has. But even the Dungeons give you more variety (not always a good thing I'll admit). If I run the roulette in order to get my EXP bonus for the day as a level 68 Red Mage I have a TON of dungeons that it can pull from. I could get anything from Sastasha to Doma Castle. I admit that Legion has fixed this problem in some ways with their level sync system but you are still restricted to the basic leveling dungeons from Legion if you want to level something like my Druid from 104-105. If I ran a level 80 dungeon as a level 104 then I'd get nothing.

POTD I don't have a defense for. After doing it like 150 times I appreciate the efficiency but it's hard to be excited necessarily to go back in there at any point.

I think BQ's are only relevant XP wise if you're at the level they're around. You're not leveling solo on ARR BQ's at level 67. Not appreciably at least. Same thing with FATEs, unless you enjoy doing the same 6-7 zone FATEs over and over and over.... and over.../snore. Oh sorry I'm awake.

YOu can only get appreciable XP from old dungeons via daily roulette. Once you exhaust that you're forced to grind the highest dungeon you can queue for to level). Again, not saying other games do this well, just saying it's not something FF14 does super well either. Being faster than an overweight slow kid doesn't mean you're fast.

FATEs as you probably know by now are not content to me.

One of my main gripes with this game. What fucking moron thought that dying only returning you to your Home Point was a good idea for Death in this game. Home Point should be where you like to Travel to. Having to rebind home point to every new Aetheryte makes it not a fucking home point it makes it a Check Point. The worst part is if you manage to die somehow before you find an Aetheryte in a new Zone you literally have to respawn in a previous Zone.

Ironically probably because no one testing the game ever died. I am trying to recall the last time I actually died in the world lol. It's been a while.

That aside - this is a surprisingly easy solution (return to nearest Aethryrte or camp). Probably a lot of backend shit in the way, but the solution is easily identifiable, regardless of implementation difficulty.

Obligatory Yoshi Git Gud

[Aruhen]

One thing I really enjoyed in Legion is the recent additions of invasions as a source of XP. There's just something relaxing about coming on for 30 minutes once a day to knock out a few quests and get a level. Can you imagine the variety if it picked a few zones on a random continent and offer a teleport there? mmm.

I guess FATEs are the FFXIV equivalent but iunno they're too frequent and not as rewarding as invasions.

edit; man all this spell speed on caster gear is triggering me hard as a RDM.