[Balance] Legion Discussion

[Lilija]

That's the easy part, the hard part is remembering in a panic that you have wild charge if you frequently swap between those two talents. I often forget and end up dissengaging off the edges of things.

Haha, I know exactly what you're saying since I'm more used to DB as well. Even tho I always play Demonic Inq. with WC on mythic I've tried to blink away from adds chasing me several times

I made a weak aura that displays a big message, "YOU HAVE WILD CHARGE, DO NOT DISSENGAGE OFF THE EDGE!" when I enter combat for the first second or so, helps a bit.

Hmm... I might need to consider something similar as well

[Deleted]

I sometimes play with both and for most fights it doesnt really matter. But I really like having WC on Avatar and DB on KJ .

[Myztikrice]

What do you need DB on KJ for? WC is perfect because it allows you to ignore the knockback from any location

[huth]

What do you need DB on KJ for? WC is perfect because it allows you to ignore the knockback from any location

The knockback isn't exactly a hard mechanic to deal with.

[earthwormjim]

I use a certain keybind for displacer, I want to swap it for Wild charge but I'm afraid I'll forget that I don't blink anymore.
Last time I swaped it I jumped down when I had bonds on Elerethe.
The ideea with the weak aura is good.
Muscle memory sucks.

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Different key binds is a good idea. I usually use CNTRL+S for blink and wild charge. Maybe change it so CNTRL+S is wild charge, CNTRL+D is blink, so the keybindings themselves imply the direction.

[Myztikrice]

The knockback isn't exactly a hard mechanic to deal with.

It's not hard but it makes it a non-issue. The only thing DB would help you with is getting a far away Armageddon which only happens if the raid is positioned poorly, and even then WC can still do that. If you're not aggressive with AP spending during the intermission phase and IFE equipped Incarnation won't be off CD before KJ lands; WC allows you to ignore bad knockbacks on the other side of the room and keep casting at KJ.

[Polarthief]

Once you get used to it, WC is amazing and a DPS gain over DB (WC costs no global while DB costs 2 globals), as well as having half the cooldown (15s down from 30s), and being versatile (though this costs globals):
- You can use Bear (Charge) or Cat (Back-Pounce) to get into melee for stack mechanics
- You can unshift and fly to an ally for some specific mechanics
- If outside (KJ is outside), you can use Travel Form and Leap forward (which IIRC covers more distance than Moonkin's 'Disengage').

DB is only better for specific things you can't jump over (but can teleport through) and depending on the height distance, better at getting you back to the ground (if it's a short knock-back/up, WC works fine; DB is better for longer KBs/KUs where the lost globals won't matter as much, esp if you get knocked out of range).

Both talents have their places. One (DB) is overall superior but costs you globals and has a longer cd. The other (WC) is weaker, but versatile, costs no globals, and is almost always up whenever you need it (15s is a stupidly short cooldown). The only talent that doesn't belong is Renewal which provides no movement and is a shit garbage talent. It should be replaced with something that makes Dash better (maybe usable in Moonkin form? Maybe give some DR?).

[joltcola1234]

I can't get used to Wild Charge, I've tried...I just don't like it vs Displacer Beast. Maybe (probably) it's just a comfort thing, but whatever. WC definitely has some use, but I haven't noticed it being critical using one or the other, so I'll stick with DB.

[zeoos]

I love WC right now. I got used to it last night and it's so awesome on Avatar hc. You have the cooldown available for every mechanic.
It's so satisfying when you disengage and land straight in the middle of a fel pool with 1 second to spare.

I agree that displacer beast has it's uses on some fights such as desolate hosr when you have to walk over silence purple stuff to get to the right of the room etc.

I used to play a mage so I just got used to the blink and never used WC outside BGs.

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[Lahis]

Once you get used to it, WC is amazing and a DPS gain over DB (WC costs no global while DB costs 2 globals), as well as having half the cooldown (15s down from 30s), and being versatile (though this costs globals):
- You can use Bear (Charge) or Cat (Back-Pounce) to get into melee for stack mechanics
- You can unshift and fly to an ally for some specific mechanics
- If outside (KJ is outside), you can use Travel Form and Leap forward (which IIRC covers more distance than Moonkin's 'Disengage').

>doesn't cost globals!
>gives examples that cost fuckton of globals

Regardless, I just use DB mostly to teleport through shit. WC would most likely land me in said shit. Or off the platform ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[foibooze]

>doesn't cost globals!
>gives examples that cost fuckton of globals

I suggest re-reading =) he listed the versatility of it and started off with mentioning that it costs GCD's.

On the topic of WC I think I personally have to play more than 2-5hrs/week to get used to it xD

[huth]

>doesn't cost globals!
>gives examples that cost fuckton of globals

Regardless, I just use DB mostly to teleport through shit. WC would most likely land me in said shit. Or off the platform ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Or you'd fly over shit but get hit anyway.

Both have ups and downs. With my muscle memory swapping isn't really an option anyway. I needed months to adapt to 7.0 rotations.

[Polarthief]

>doesn't cost globals!
>gives examples that cost fuckton of globals

>tries to counterargument!
>ignores everything including the bit where I said the added versatility, and not the primary reason you'll be using the ability, costs globals!

But I mean, okay.

Again, the primary use of WC is to bound backwards as a Moonkin, but I gave extra options that people don't always think of. Yes, they use globals (which I even said they did), but it's not like you'll be using those constantly. 99% of the time, you'll be using the GCD-less Moonkin version. The non-form version is also very awesome to have at times though and not always considered.

Regardless, I just use DB mostly to teleport through shit. WC would most likely land me in said shit. Or off the platform ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

After years of playing with Blink as a Mage and Disengage as a Hunter, I know the general distances of both DB and WC, and I know when it'll put me in a worse hazard or not. If you think you'll land in shit or off the platform, then you simply haven't used it enough to know, and that's a personal problem, which is fine and DB is definitely acceptable to use. That said it's not optimal unless a fight is extremely unforgiving with mechanics, and so far in Legion, I haven't really found a situation where having DB would drastically help me over WC, except maybe if I fucked up Elisande rings (but my guild never killed Mythic Elisande anyways).

TL;DR: No one is saying you have to use one or the other, as long as you don't use Renewal, because then and only then are you truly being bad and should feel bad.

[huth]

About the only reason to use Renewal would a fight with little to no movement and unavoidable damage. I.e. a design we haven't had in Legion.

[Polarthief]

About the only reason to use Renewal would a fight with little to no movement and unavoidable damage. I.e. a design we haven't had in Legion.

e.g., a fight design you likely will not see ever again, and if there is one, it'll be every 1 in 20-30 encounters (and not worth the tome to swap).

Unless it actually keeps you alive over WC/DB and is your only option, I could see use, but the way shorter cooldown and usability of DB and WC is just way too good to give up for a mediocre heal cd. On top of that, it provides a 0DPS boost in every scenario unless you can continue to stand in the goop you're standing in because of it, but then your raid and healers will hate you, so... yeah, it's still a 0DPS boost over even DB (which costs 2 GCDs).

[AngelovV]

e.g., a fight design you likely will not see ever again, and if there is one, it'll be every 1 in 20-30 encounters (and not worth the tome to swap).

Unless it actually keeps you alive over WC/DB and is your only option, I could see use, but the way shorter cooldown and usability of DB and WC is just way too good to give up for a mediocre heal cd. On top of that, it provides a 0DPS boost in every scenario unless you can continue to stand in the goop you're standing in because of it, but then your raid and healers will hate you, so... yeah, it's still a 0DPS boost over even DB (which costs 2 GCDs).

Tobinax reincarnate

[Deleted]

I actually used Renewal for a pull or two on Sisters mythic to help with the heal debuff but then I realized that I was fucking retarded.

[Deleted]

DB can be nice to have on Mistress, because you don't have to stack with the others to dodge the tornadoes. More of a mythic thing, where they don't despawn. It is a bit similar to Elisande rings just a lot slower so probably not really an issue.

[Deleted]

Yeah I took Displacer Beast for Mistress progress and the first time I tried to use it I did a 180 blink into a wall. Respecced back to WC after that.

[Deleted]

I remember speccing renewal on Manno-Mythic. His big pushback did a ton of damage and healers werent really able to heal much or reach at all. Stuff like that was the best way to stay alive. (wasnt exclusive with DB back then)
Also used it during some Grevious Dungeons - Timing it to push yourself above 90% before stacks get high. But yeah it isnt great. The cooldown is too long for it to be worth it - might as well get resto aff and swiftmend yourself.