Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

The whole pawn thing could just be some twisted way of saying he's a pawn of the titans now. Not meaning, being a literal pawn of the Old Gods.

Why should Ilgynoth rather refer to the Titans instead of his master? I think N'zoth whispering to him is more likely than Azeroth is talking to him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Why should Ilgynoth rather refer to the Titans instead of his master? I think N'zoth whispering to him is more likely than Azeroth is talking to him.

Because being a pawn is accurate if you hold contempt for Titan based entities.

[Hitei]

The whole pawn thing could just be some twisted way of saying he's a pawn of the titans now. Not meaning, being a literal pawn of the Old Gods.

That seems like a really irrelevant thing for Il'gynoth to bring up, though. He has a bunch of lines about betrayal and lies and N'zoth's prison being opened by five keys, and then a line about Magni being a pawn--and we know that if there were keys they'd be Titan made and Magni had as collect five Titan made objects this expansion.

I mean sure, it could be him claiming Magni is a pawn of the Titans, but that is stating the obvious, Magni is supposedly taking orders directly from a Titan. Why even bother saying it?

[In Ogres We Trust]

And this model appears where?

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My logic is working fine. If we turn Class Halls into Guild Halls many expansion specific things are only doable when you have a Guild Hall / a guild - and that's not working.

And why does the feature have to be expansion specific? Are pet battles tied to Cataclysm? Is PvP tied to Classic? If they wanted to do so, the feature could stand on its own (the same with class halls).

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People are dumb as hell if they think Sylvanas is going to become a raid boss.

Though I'm tired of giving the same explanation to the same individuals each time so I'll let it go this time.

Her story has become mundane and boring. On top of that, the inclusion of the Forsaken as a playable race has stalled any plot development for the reclamation of Lordaeron.

[Nyel]

And why does the feature have to be expansion specific? Are pet battles tied to Cataclysm? Is PvP tied to Classic? If they wanted to do so, the feature could stand on its own (the same with class halls).

What? Somebody mentioned they could turn Class Halls into Guild Halls and I just said that it's impossible, nothing more or less.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Well no. These are mere integral components of the game you can choose to play or not play. Guild Halls would be, by all means, one of the main features of a new expansion. And if you want to sell that expansion than it has to appeal a shit ton of people (unless the plan is releasing equally big alternatives which is unlikely).

Once again, why would guild halls be limited to an expansion? If they wanted to do so, the feature could easily be an integral part of the game (the same logic applies to class halls).

[In Ogres We Trust]

What? Somebody mentioned they could turn Class Halls into Guild Halls and I just said that it's impossible, nothing more or less.

You responded to my post, and as a result, I responded back. Both features - class halls and guild halls - could stand on there on as an integral aspect of the game.

[Rend Blackhand]

On top of that, the inclusion of the Forsaken as a playable race has stalled any plot development for the reclamation of Lordaeron.

On the contrary, the inclusion of the forsaken as a playable race has prevented Lordaeron from being generic fantasy human kingdom #274527.

Also, Stormwind is a separate kingdom. They can't 'reclaim' what was never theirs, especially seeing as the forsaken are the citizens of lordaeron, they're just undead is all.

[In Ogres We Trust]

The Forsaken didn't stall development of a Lordaeron plot - if anything they could encourage it. Calia Menethil pretty much threw that away.

Can the Alliance reclaim Lordaeron while the Forsaken occupy it? Will we ever solve this issue within the game? No. Hence, the plot for that region of the game has been stalled for the foreseeable future.

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On the contrary, the inclusion of the forsaken as a playable race has prevented Lordaeron from being generic fantasy human kingdom #274527.

Also, Stormwind is a separate kingdom. They can't 'reclaim' what was never theirs, especially seeing as the forsaken are the citizens of lordaeron, they're just undead is all.

And as a result, the living members of the kingdom are SOL.

[Nyel]

You responded to my post, and as a result, I responded back. Both features - class halls and guild halls - could stand on there on as an integral aspect of the game.

You quoted me. You quoted me without knowing what the person I quoted was talking about. We were not talking about Class Halls AND Guild Halls but Class Halls becoming Guild Halls. And that will never happen due to the most obvious reason possible I already pointed out: not everybody has a guild.

And @Zulkhan already explained why:

Well no. These are mere integral components of the game you can choose to play or not play. Guild Halls would be, by all means, one of the main features of a new expansion. And if you want to sell that expansion than it has to appeal a shit ton of people (unless the plan is releasing equally big alternatives which is unlikely).

[CaptainV]

Nobody knows that, maybe Quel'Thelas used to be several zones and that was the old Ghostlands?

As for the post counter.. when you run out of arguments and rationale, you start bashing post counts or character names. It's a common trend in such discussions sadly.

In lore, its known as Northaeron a region of Lordaeron that branches QT and Lordy.

[Hitei]

And why does the feature have to be expansion specific? Are pet battles tied to Cataclysm? Is PvP tied to Classic? If they wanted to do so, the feature could stand on its own (the same with class halls).

They don't have to be but frequently they are. Class halls aren't very relevant post Legion. You could make the argument for some (Paladins, Warlocks, Mages, Monks, DK and DHs, for instance) but a lot of the Class halls are either

1) Purely based on the location of the Broken Isles as the current place of conflict (There's no reason for warriors to congregate in the Halls of Valor if we aren't hanging around Odyn's home turf, or for Druids to stick to the Dreamgrove when Moonglade exists and is bigger with an established town, or for rogues to continue to hang out in the city of the Mages when the action and money has all moved on, or for Hunters to continue to meet up at some lodge so far out of the way of anything not on the Broken Isles)

or 2) Only kept together by the unification of the fight against the Legion. The Priest enclave, for instance, is a group deliberately gathered from priest groups who normally don't interact or even necessarily get along, to fight against the Legion. Why are shadow priests going to help Holy ones fight against a large source of their own power? Why are the Elemental lords going to hang around with each other and the Earthen Ring after the major threat has passed? They don't get along at all, nor do the Grimtotem, who are more likely to side with the Old Gods than the Horde and Alliance.

And of course, if there's going to be a new city or new cities, people aren't going to want to have to go back to go back to a totally different city from the past expansion in order to do their missions and crap.

[CaptainV]

Sorry but for the 100th time: "At the hour of her third death, she will usher us in" - Sylvanas is NOT sylvanas. Its Elisande whom's death ushered in Gul'dan's death by changing the timeline 3 times which opened up the path to closing the felstorm to the Tomb by receiving the Eye of Aman'thul which is one of the five pillars of creation.



Found a cool in game model of N'zoth

Its from deviant art, sadly its fanmade.

[Tartys]

What?

Five keys to open the way. Five torches to light our path

The Tidestone of Golganneth
The Tears of Elune
The Hammer of Khaz'goroth
The Aegis of Aggramar
The Eye of Aman'thul

We know who locked the Old Gods up, the Titans. We currently have five very powerful objects from those Titans. And who told us we needed those, specific, five objects to stop the Legion? Magni, who has been hearing whispers from "Azeroth" telling him how to save the world.

The king of diamonds has been made pawn.

Why do you think one thing excludes the other? We are assuming that the Five keys and the Five torches are the same things. But if not?
The Pillars of Creation are relics that were created by the titan Pantheon and gifted to the titan-forged Keepers that are also related to the Dragon Aspects.

We have to use the relics to close the portal, but insteed we open the way to Argus to put and end to the Legion.
But he speaks about: "our path", is not only the old god. Is an army.

And the path is from Aurgus to Azeroth or from some hidden place in Azeroth?
If it's from Azeroth, the torches could be the Watchers and some of their actions will enlight the path. Infact, actually we dont know, after we came back from Argus what will happen to the relics... the owners are the Keepers.

Maybe N'zoth (or the great Void Lord) is the smarthed one and since Ulduar events in Wotlk, is playing a long chess battle with us, driving the events since Deathwing to guldan at the moment when: "Odyn will turn the key".





BUT why Azshara try to stole one of the relic or interfere in the tomb as like Xavius with the tear of Elune, when the "old gods" plan was let us to do all the jobs for him?

[In Ogres We Trust]

You quoted me. You quoted me without knowing what the person I quoted was talking about. We were not talking about Class Halls AND Guild Halls but Class Halls becoming Guild Halls. And that will never happen due to the most obvious reason possible I already pointed out: not everybody has a guild.

And @Zulkhan already explained why:

And it will appeal to a shit ton of people. Also, every facet of the game doesn't have to have participation from every member of the game. Guild halls and class halls can stand on their own merits (just like raids, pet battles, etc.). If you can't grasp that basic principle then I don't know what to tell you.

[ChairmanKaga]

Can the Alliance reclaim Lordaeron while the Forsaken occupy it? Will we ever solve this issue within the game? No. Hence, the plot for that region of the game has been stalled for the foreseeable future.

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And as a result, the living members of the kingdom are SOL.

Technically the living citizens of Lordaeron could have the option to join the Forsaken after they die of old age.

[Nyel]

And it will appeal to a shit ton of people. Also, every facet of the game doesn't have to have participation from every member of the game. Guild halls and class halls can stand on their own merits (just like raids, pet battles, etc.). If you can't grasp that basic principle then I don't know what to tell you.

You don't get it (and you turned one of my quotes into a discussion just because you didn't read the context).

To participate in Guild Halls you need a guild. So that's a requirement. To use Class Halls you don't need anything but your character. The same goes with literally every other feature in the game. There is nothing "required" except for Guild Halls. They can introduce Guild Halls as a nice feature without any greater sense except hanging around with guild mates but that's it. As soon as something becomes mandatory to enjoy a feature it won't find its way into the game.

So: Guild Halls without any "functions" like Class Halls? Yes.

[Deleted]

You don't get it (and you turned one of my quotes into a discussion just because you didn't read the context).

To participate in Guild Halls you need a guild. So that's a requirement. To use Class Halls you don't need anything but your character. The same goes with literally every other feature in the game. There is nothing "required" except for Guild Halls. They can introduce Guild Halls as a nice feature without any greater sense except hanging around with guild mates but that's it. As soon as something becomes mandatory to enjoy a feature it won't find its way into the game.

I really don't want to waste more Art Team time on a base where people will only go there due to mandatory quest pick up or delivery.

Come on now, we all know that. Would rather have the team invested in more sub-races or more artifact appearances or something for the future.

Reminds me of the Age of Conan Guild Base that people only there for crafting and defending if you were on PvP server.

[Hitei]

Why do you think one thing excludes the other? We are assuming that the Five keys and the Five torches are the same things. But if not?
The Pillars of Creation are relics that were created by the titan Pantheon and gifted to the titan-forged Keepers that are also related to the Dragon Aspects.

We have to use the relics to close the portal, but insteed we open the way to Argus to put and end to the Legion.
But he speaks about: "our path", is not only the old god. Is an army.

And the path is from Aurgus to Azeroth or from some hidden place in Azeroth?
If it's from Azeroth, the torches could be the Watchers and some of their actions will enlight the path. Infact, actually we dont know, after we came back from Argus what will happen to the relics... the owners are the Keepers.

Maybe N'zoth (or the great Void Lord) is the smarthed one and since Ulduar events in Wotlk, is playing a long chess battle with us, driving the events since Deathwing to guldan at the moment when: "Odyn will turn the key".

This is extremely convoluted. If they keys are not the torches, the torches could be literally any five things. If they are the torches, the metaphor is obvious, the way is lit by it being unlocked, extremely simple. If they are the keepers, how are they lighting the way?

The aspects clearly aren't involved, since first, there are two and a half of them alive, not five (dead or alive). And second their Titan empowerment was consumed and subsequently destroyed in the battle against Deathwing. So they aren't even connected to the Titans anymore (and one of them isn't the dragon who was empowered by the Titans in the first place)

I could maybe buy the keeper thing, if there were five and not nine of them (Archaedas, Freya, Hodir, Thorim, Mimiron, Loken, Tyr, Ra and Odyn, or if any of them were associated with N'zoth (Six of them were directly responsible for watching over Yogg-Saron and a 7th helped defeat Yogg, why would they be the key to N'zoth's prison or the torches that light the way? And why only five of them?).

But even beyond that, why would Odyn going to Ulduar light the way for N'zoth, hundreds of miles away sealed beneath the ocean?

BUT why Azshara try to stole one of the relic or interfere in the tomb as like Xavius with the tear of Elune, when the "old gods" plan was let us to do all the jobs for him?

Because the prison was already weakening and Azshara has more potent uses for the Tidestone as a weapon. It's possible that with her level of magic and the weakness of the prison, she could have just taken the Tidestone alone and used it to break N'zoth free. It's possible she doesn't actually server N'zoth, and they are just reluctant partners in crime.

Xavius took the tear because he was attempting to just have the nightmare overwhelm the entirety of the planet, like the above example of Azshara, this was a case where he was going to win with one of the artifacts instead of needing all five and to get the Legion out of the way.

[vertigo12]

Many forgot that Azeroth is corrupted and right now influenced by the old gods. The old gods could be using Azeroth as a means of communicator for Magni.